Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 whembly wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Or maybe invest in better, multi-shot, long range tasers/other non-lethal incapacitating weapons as a front line, first choice weapon to arm police with?

You know, so police don't kill so many people?

Tasers are the worse thing to have when someone else is pointing a gun at you...

Hence "other non-lethal"... and "invest in".

Or how about people exercise a bit of basic logic and not point lethal weapons at the police?

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Or maybe invest in better, multi-shot, long range tasers/other non-lethal incapacitating weapons as a front line, first choice weapon to arm police with?

You know, so police don't kill so many people?

Tasers are the worse thing to have when someone else is pointing a gun at you...

Hence "other non-lethal"... and "invest in".

They're working on it:
http://www.wired.com/2012/03/pain-ray-shot/

But, may be ruled as illegal as it's too effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stanman wrote:
Or how about people using the logic not point lethal weapons at the police?

These folks are not exhibiting much reason/logic these days....

Video seems pretty clear that the guy is pointing a firearm at the police officer, from just a few feet away.

That is Darwinism at work.

I think any reasonable person understands that pointing a firearm at a police officer will justifiably result in lethal force.

 Ouze wrote:
I think any reasonable person understands that pointing a firearm at a police officer will justifiably result in lethal force.

Nt my roommate who thinks cops should wait until shots are fired

 Ouze wrote:
I think any reasonable person understands that pointing a firearm at a police officer will justifiably result in lethal force.

I'm all for police forces investigating new ways to deal with things non-lethally, and the number of shootings over there involving coppers is depressing, but I agree with Ouze.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I think any reasonable person understands that pointing a firearm at a police officer will justifiably result in lethal force.

Nt my roommate who thinks cops should wait until shots are fired

It's like a friendly game of tag, but with bullets that have smiley faces stamped on them. Cops have to go second because they have a vest on right? And just like in COD custom deathmatches the headshots are turned off so everybody is happy.

Because this has been in the news so much, I was interested to see how dangerous it is to be a policeman in the States.

When I looked into it, the statistics I found were pretty shocking. Seems like it is an extremely dangerous job. It is more understandable to me now that they'd be pretty, I guess we'll call it "careful" about firearms.

I still think this is a racial issue though, given the disproportionate number of young black men shot in this manner.

 Da Boss wrote:

I still think this is a racial issue though, given the disproportionate number of young black men shot in this manner.

I think it's more of a ghetto culture issue that promotes gangs, criminal activity, and gun violence, race only happens to be a secondary element of the situation.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I think any reasonable person understands that pointing a firearm at a police officer will justifiably result in lethal force.

Nt my roommate who thinks cops should wait until shots are fired

Your roommate is an idiot. If you want to convince him otherwise, just have him play CoD and tell him he can only shoot after you have shot. Just keep lining up headshots. He'll get the idea after the 3rd or 4th time that you can't shoot back when you're dead.

I'm going to put this "engraved plaque" here for all those who have looked into my post history.
I fully admit to being mildly insane during this period. I had not yet understood "Good taste" or "Logic", and I admit that I had contracted a minor case of Religion.
Please do not consider anything I have posted before my ideology switch an accurate reflection of my personality or beliefs.
And honestly this post was racist as hell.

When you pull a gun on the cops at a time like this, I'd say it's just Darwin's blessing.

 stanman wrote:
I think it's more of a ghetto culture issue that promotes gangs, criminal activity, and gun violence, race only happens to be a secondary element of the situation.

Well, many minorities are of lower economic classes, don't receive good education and tend towards base self aggrandizing culture. Acting like a punk then reaching into your pockets sets off warning flags like mad to cops because of the hundreds that have died from similar situations or even less obvious behaviors. Cops act the way they do because of an extensive history of officer deaths and injuries.

 whembly wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Or maybe invest in better, multi-shot, long range tasers/other non-lethal incapacitating weapons as a front line, first choice weapon to arm police with?

You know, so police don't kill so many people?

Tasers are the worse thing to have when someone else is pointing a gun at you...

Not to mention that tasers don't always work. If the subject is wearing thick clothing, they won't work. They have a limited range. Some people, when hit with a taser, can still function well enough to fire a weapon. The idea that tasers are like some sort of magical star trek stun phaser is ignorant at best. Plus, how many time has the use of a taser been described as police brutaliy?

Yeah, given the video, and that the temp was in the 30's there, it's safe to say the guy was wearing some pretty thick clothes. So a taser actually connecting with the skin isn't the best bet.

Plus, he was faced with deadly force. You do not face deadly force with a taser. It's not how you are trained, and it's just generally not that smart.

 Surtur wrote:

 stanman wrote:
I think it's more of a ghetto culture issue that promotes gangs, criminal activity, and gun violence, race only happens to be a secondary element of the situation.

Well, many minorities are of lower economic classes, don't receive good education and tend towards base self aggrandizing culture. Acting like a punk then reaching into your pockets sets off warning flags like mad to cops because of the hundreds that have died from similar situations or even less obvious behaviors. Cops act the way they do because of an extensive history of officer deaths and injuries.

Surprisingly, gangs do alot more for communities then cops, hence the hatred.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 stanman wrote:
I think it's more of a ghetto culture issue that promotes gangs, criminal activity, and gun violence, race only happens to be a secondary element of the situation.

Well, many minorities are of lower economic classes, don't receive good education and tend towards base self aggrandizing culture. Acting like a punk then reaching into your pockets sets off warning flags like mad to cops because of the hundreds that have died from similar situations or even less obvious behaviors. Cops act the way they do because of an extensive history of officer deaths and injuries.

Surprisingly, gangs do alot more for communities then cops, hence the hatred.

Ok... you're going to need to back that statement up with some facts. Sons of Anarchy is not sourceable material.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 stanman wrote:
I think it's more of a ghetto culture issue that promotes gangs, criminal activity, and gun violence, race only happens to be a secondary element of the situation.

Well, many minorities are of lower economic classes, don't receive good education and tend towards base self aggrandizing culture. Acting like a punk then reaching into your pockets sets off warning flags like mad to cops because of the hundreds that have died from similar situations or even less obvious behaviors. Cops act the way they do because of an extensive history of officer deaths and injuries.

Surprisingly, gangs do alot more for communities then cops, hence the hatred.

Clarify that a bit more. How are "gangs" more beneficial to a community

 Jihadin wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
If he really pointed a gun at the policer officer, then shooting him was fully justified and the perfectly correct choice.

Last few seconds of the video I posted from youtube you can see him draw and point his weapon at the LEO.

I saw hat video elsewhere, I didn't see the shooting at all.
Not saying it didn't happen as described, just that I couldn't see what was going on.
I think this needs close ups and identified stills from the camera footage.

Often I wonder why security camera footage is still in the 1980's, even bank camera images are so often grainy and crap.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
If he really pointed a gun at the policer officer, then shooting him was fully justified and the perfectly correct choice.

Last few seconds of the video I posted from youtube you can see him draw and point his weapon at the LEO.

I saw hat video elsewhere, I didn't see the shooting at all.
Not saying it didn't happen as described, just that I couldn't see what was going on.
I think this needs close ups and identified stills from the camera footage.

Often I wonder why security camera footage is still in the 1980's, even bank camera images are so often grainy and crap.

Cause camera's ain't cheap.

St. Louis police haven't released the full video yet "out of respect for the dead mans family".

 Da Boss wrote:
Because this has been in the news so much, I was interested to see how dangerous it is to be a policeman in the States.

When I looked into it, the statistics I found were pretty shocking. Seems like it is an extremely dangerous job.

Not really. It's not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US. It just gets a lot of press when something happens because my country fetishes uniformed guys with firearms as "heroes" - no one really cares when a fisherman or rancher dies.

 Jihadin wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 stanman wrote:
I think it's more of a ghetto culture issue that promotes gangs, criminal activity, and gun violence, race only happens to be a secondary element of the situation.

Well, many minorities are of lower economic classes, don't receive good education and tend towards base self aggrandizing culture. Acting like a punk then reaching into your pockets sets off warning flags like mad to cops because of the hundreds that have died from similar situations or even less obvious behaviors. Cops act the way they do because of an extensive history of officer deaths and injuries.

Surprisingly, gangs do alot more for communities then cops, hence the hatred.

Clarify that a bit more. How are "gangs" more beneficial to a community

Get with the program Jihadin.
Gangs keep the ethnic groups settled in distinct locations, provide a cultural setting for urban populations, they sometimes have been known to alleviate overpopulation, and they are notably enterprising when it comes to unlicensed pharmaceutical distribution and retail.
What do cops have to offer by comparison?

What about respect for the store owners in town?



"No Justice, New Shoes!"

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Surprisingly, gangs do alot more for communities then cops, hence the hatred.

That may have been a defensible position if we were talking about 1960's Chicago (to name one example), where if you happened to be black the police were little better than a government sanctioned gang, but it definitely isn't the case now.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
What about respect for the store owners in town?



"No Justice, New Shoes!"

The gangs are providing a valueable public service by promoting micro-economic distribution of footwear to a underprivileged sections of the local population.

 Orlanth wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
What about respect for the store owners in town?



"No Justice, New Shoes!"

The gangs are providing a valueable public service by promoting micro-economic distribution of footwear to a underprivileged sections of the local population.

Your good.......I might have to step up my game....

I can see their willingness to protect their territory from other gangs. Can't have two packs of predators feeding off the same vict.....eerrrr prey...

 Ouze wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Because this has been in the news so much, I was interested to see how dangerous it is to be a policeman in the States.

When I looked into it, the statistics I found were pretty shocking. Seems like it is an extremely dangerous job.

Not really. It's not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US. It just gets a lot of press when something happens because my country fetishes uniformed guys with firearms as "heroes" - no one really cares when a fisherman or rancher dies.

Don't the most dangerous occupations include statistical aberrations like astronauts and bomb disposal?

Also you need to separate the urban from the rural police for a meaningful statistic.. Apparently a large proportion of the rural police never/rarely ever have to draw their firearms over the course of their careers.

Off to Google
http://www.theguardian.com/society/joepublic/2011/nov/10/gangs-good-society-youth-crime
http://www.lapdonline.org/top_ten_most_wanted_gang_members/content_basic_view/23473
http://www.lapdonline.org/top_ten_most_wanted_gang_members/content_basic_view/23473
Common themes are safety from violence, something police tendepartment to not do.

 Orlanth wrote:
Don't the most dangerous occupations include statistical aberrations like astronauts and bomb disposal?.

Not at all, no. There aren't enough astronauts or EOD techs to skew the numbers. Depending on where you pull the data from and how well it's cited, it's pretty always some permutation of loggers, construction workers, fisherman, ranchers, farm workers, truck drivers, roofers, and things like that.

Any job with a lot of driving is going to have a high on-the-job-casualty rate because driving is statistically the most dangerous thing most people do.