Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine

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**Asherian Command**

Torga_DW wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I already said the fluff Astartes win, but I don't consider those the legitimate Astartes. I consider the tabletop Astartes the real ones, because I have spent many more hours playing than reading GW's awful fiction. The tabletop Astartes lose to practically any other sci-fi army because they are awful.

Dude, we are comparing fluff Space Marines vs fluff Starcraft Marines vs fluff Halo.

Well, if we're going on fluff: i saw an anthology movie set in the halo universe, where a clumsy spartan fell out of low orbit (repeatedly) onto a planet, took minimal (if any) damage and was able to complete his mission (with the help of a small child iirc). So, if game mechanics are out, there's the new benchmark.

Ummm. According to Ultramarine movie a chaplain has a super power.

**Redcruisair**

Space marines don’t just suck on the tabletop. In fluff too they die to embarrassing stuff like cavemen armed with wooden spears. I think their performance could go from terra-bad, to mediocre if they just abandoned all that pointless close combat nonsense.

**Asherian Command**

Redcruisair wrote:
Space marines don’t just suck on the tabletop. In fluff too they die to embarrassing stuff like cavemen armed with wooden spears. I think their performance could go from terra-bad, to mediocre if they just abandoned all that pointless close combat nonsense.

Uhh could you source that?

Instead of just coming and declaring. Yeah Cavemen killed a marine. Umm if I recall correctly. In starcraft, a bunch of marines got killed by an avalenche. In halo a bunch of spartans got killed by a single elite.

Yep lets go making claims.

**Redcruisair**

Asherian Command wrote:
Uhh could you source that?

The First Heretic: ADB

**Torga_DW**

Asherian Command wrote:
Ummm. According to Ultramarine movie a chaplain has a super power.

Two problems with that:

1 - they only get super powers when fighting chaos.

2 - By fluff there's only going to be one chaplain amongst those 100 marines.

Meanwhile the worst case scenario is we have 100 clumsy spartans tanking hits that would kill superman, i think the spartans have the edge here.

**TheCustomLime**

BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

They're ultimately let down by their equipment. And the Astartes biological enhancements are superior. Oh, and I believe it's Heroic that's the canon difficulty according to Bungie.

**BlackTalos**

I don't know if this has been here, but i like to think:

MJOLNIR Spartans are men's first steps across the Galaxy

It's actually an STC that the mechanicum found 30000 years later

**A Town Called Malus**

BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

Not to mention that there's nothing to stop a Spartan from picking up a dead Astartes weapon, which cannot be said for the astartes due to their ridiculous mindset about alien technology.

**Asherian Command**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

Not to mention that there's nothing to stop a Spartan from picking up a dead Astartes weapon, which cannot be said for the astartes due to their ridiculous mindset about alien technology.

Those are human weapons. They wouldn't flinch to pick up a weapon. IE Ordo Xenos Deathwatch use Xenos Weapons quite often in their battles against other xenos. Well according to FFG.

A spartan would get slaughtered before he took down a single astartes. As Astartes don't go off by themselves.

**Redcruisair**

TheCustomLime wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

And the Astartes biological enhancements are superior.

But what are their biological enchantments good for? A bullet to the head is just as lethal to a space marine, as it is to a none-enchanted human.

**Asherian Command**

Redcruisair wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

And the Astartes biological enhancements are superior.

But what are their biological enchantments good for? A bullet to the head is just as lethal to a space marine, as it is to a none-enchanted human.

Not really. A space marine and a normal human can actually survive a bullet wound. The most lethal you can do to a human is shooting their heart. A space marine even a bullet to the head wouldn't actually make them have a bad headache. A spartan's unsc weaponry is actually not that advanced as to modern day weaponry.

**Grey Templar**

Redcruisair wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

And the Astartes biological enhancements are superior.

But what are their biological enchantments good for? A bullet to the head is just as lethal to a space marine, as it is to a none-enchanted human.

You're forgetting that space marine skeletons are much much stronger than normal human skeletons.

Their bones are not just calcium carbonate, but also contain ceramic compounds similar to the ceramite that makes up their armor. Their bones are also much thicker than a normal humans.

The Halo Battle Rifle's stated stats are worse than a modern M-16. And unless you hit them in the eye you're really just going to give them a nice scar, and even then the marine is perfectly capable of functioning with just one eye.

Thats assuming he isn't wearing his helmet on top of that.

Also, never assume head shots. Real soldiers aim for center mass.

**TheCustomLime**

Redcruisair wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
BlaxicanX wrote:
The ability for SPARTANS to win depends on their weaponry, as UNSC weapons are vastly less powerful then bolters and Imperial tech.

The ignorance in this thread in regards to Halo and Starcraft is soul-crushing though, if not unexpected

Spartans have displayed superior durability feats to Marines.

And the Astartes biological enhancements are superior.

But what are their biological enchantments good for? A bullet to the head is just as lethal to a space marine, as it is to a none-enchanted human.

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

**A Town Called Malus**

TheCustomLime wrote:

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

That's the enhancement which also means they can't breathe, right? On account of the fact that they'd have to break open their ribcage in order for the diaphragm to be able to work properly.

**Grey Templar**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

That's the enhancement which also means they can't breathe, right? On account of the fact that they'd have to break open their ribcage in order for the diaphragm to be able to work properly.

Lungs can still expand down into the stomach. I would also assume that some minor alteration is made to the lungs themselves.

**Asherian Command**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

That's the enhancement which also means they can't breathe, right? On account of the fact that they'd have to break open their ribcage in order for the diaphragm to be able to work properly.

No they still breathe they have a different type of lung. Infact there lungs are EXTREMELY efficent. There heart beats would probably be around a resting of 40-60 but with both hearts we would get a heart beat of 120. What does this mean it means that they have a more efficient heart than a olympian. You know how captain america can run a mile in less than 30 seconds. A space marine can probably run a mile in 25 seconds.

Secondary Heart
Phase 1: This simplest and most self-sufficient of implants allows a Space Marine to survive his other heart being damaged or destroyed, and to survive in low oxygen environments. Not just a back-up, the secondary heart can boost the blood-flow around the Marine's body.[1][2a][3]
Ossmodula
Phase 2: A small, complex, tubular organ, the ossmodula secretes hormones that both affect the ossification of the skeleton and encourages the forming bone growths to absorb ceramic-based chemicals that are laced into the Marine's diet.[1][2a][3] This drastically alters the way a Space Marine's bones grow and develop. Two years after this implant is first put in the subject's long bones will have increased in size and strength (along with most other bones), and the rib cage will have been fused into a solid mass of bulletproof, interlocking plates.
Biscopea
Phase 3: This small, circular organ is inserted into the chest cavity and releases hormones that vastly increase muscle growth throughout the marine's body. It also serves to form the hormonal basis for many of the later implants.
Haemastamen
Phase 4: Implanted into the main circulatory system, this tiny implant not only increases the haemoglobin content of the subject's blood, making it more efficient at carrying oxygen around the body and making the subject's blood a bright red, it also serves to monitor and control the actions of the phase 2 and phase 3 implants.[1][2a][3]
Larraman's Organ
Phase 5: A liver-shaped organ about the size of a golf-ball, this implant is placed within the chest cavity and connected to the circulatory system. It generates and controls 'Larraman cells' which are released into the blood stream if the recipient is wounded. They attach themselves to leucocytes in the blood and are carried to the site of the wound, where upon contact with air they form a near instant patch of scar tissue, sealing any wounds the Space Marine may suffer.
Catalepsean Node
Phase 6: Implanted into the back of the brain, this pea-sized organ influences the circadian rhythms of sleep and the body's response to sleep deprivation. If deprived of sleep, the catalepsean node cuts in. The node allows a Marine to sleep and remain awake at the same time by switching off areas of his brain sequentially. This process cannot replace sleep entirely, but increases the Marines survivability by allowing perception of the environment while resting[1][2a][3]. This means that a Space Marine needs no more than 4 hours of sleep a day, and can potentially go for 2 weeks without any sleep at all.
Preomnor
Phase 7: This is essentially a pre-stomach that can neutralise otherwise poisonous or indigestible foods. No actual digestion takes place in the preomnor, as it acts as a decontamination chamber placed before the natural stomach in the body's system and can be isolated from the rest of the digestive tract in order to contain particularly troublesome intake.[1][2a][3]
Omophagea
Phase 8: This implant allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. It is the presence of this organ which has led to the various flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals for which the Astartes are famous, as well as giving names to chapters such as the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers. Over time, mutations in this implant have given some chapters unnatural craving for blood or flesh.[1][2a][3]
Multi-lung
Phase 9: This additional lung activates when a Space Marine needs to breathe in low-oxygen or poisoned atmospheres, and even water. The natural lungs are closed off by a sphincter muscle associated with the multi-lung and the implanted organ takes over breathing operations. It has highly efficient toxin dispersal systems.[1][2a][3]
Occulobe
Phase 10: This implant sits at the base of the brain, and provides hormonal and genetic stimuli which enable a Marine's eyes to respond to optic-therapy. This in turn allows the Apothecaries to make adjustments to the growth patterns of the eye and the light-receptive retinal cells - the result being that Space Marines have far superior vision to normal humans, and can see in low-light conditions almost as well as in daylight.[1][2a][3]
Lyman's Ear
Phase 11: Not only does this implant make a Space Marine immune from dizziness or motion sickness but also allows Space Marines to consciously filter out and enhance certain sounds. The Lyman's Ear completely replaces a Marine's original ear. It is externally indistinguishable from a normal human ear.
Sus-an Membrane
Phase 12: Initially implanted above the brain, this membrane eventually merges with the recipient's entire brain. Ineffective without follow-up chemical therapy and training, but with sufficient training a Space Marine can use this implant to enter a state of suspended animation, consciously or as an automatic reaction to extreme trauma, keeping the Marine alive for years, even if he has suffered otherwise mortal wounds. Only the appropriate chemical therapy or auto-suggestion can revive a Marine from this state. The longest recorded period spent in suspended animation was undertaken by Brother Silas Err of the Dark Angels, who was revived after 567 years.[1][2a][3]
Melanchromic Organ
Phase 13: This implant controls the amount of melanin in a Marine's skin. Exposure to high levels of sunlight will result in the Marine's skin darkening to compensate. It also protects the Marine from other forms of radiation.[1][2a][3]
Oolitic Kidney
Phase 14: In conjunction with the secondary heart this implant allows a Space Marine to filter his blood very quickly, rendering him immune to most poisons. This action comes at a price, however, as this emergency detoxification usually renders the Marine unconscious while his blood is circulated at high speed. The organ's everyday function is to monitor the entire circulatory system and allow other organs to function effectively.[1][2a][3]
Neuroglottis
Phase 15: This enhances a Space Marine's sense of taste to such a high degree that he can identify many common chemicals by taste alone. A Marine can even track down his target by taste.
Mucranoid
Phase 16: This implant allows a Space Marine to sweat a substance that coats the skin and offers resistance to extreme heat and cold and can even provide some protection for the marine in a vacuum. This can only be activated by outside treatment, and is common when Space Marines are expected to be fighting in vacuum.
Betcher's Gland
Phase 17: Consists of two identical glands, implanted either into the lower lip, alongside the salivary glands or into the hard palette. The gland works in a similar way to the poison gland of venomous reptiles by synthesizing and storing deadly poison, which the Marines themselves are immune to due to the gland's presence. This allows a Space Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive and can even burn away strong metals given sufficient time.
Progenoids
Phase 18: There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck and the other within the chest cavity. These glands are vitally important and represent the future of the Chapter, as the only way new gene-seed can be produced is by reproducing it within the bodies of the Marines themselves. This is the implant's only purpose. The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine.
These take time (5 years in the first case, 10 in the latter)[1][2a][3] to mature into gene-seed. The gene-seed can then be extracted and used to create more Space Marines.
Black Carapace
Phase 19: The most distinctive implant, it resembles a film of black plastic that is implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso in sheets. It hardens on the outside and sends invasive neural bundles into the Marine's body. After the organ has matured the recipient is then fitted with neural sensors and interface points cut into the carapace's surface.[1][2a][3] This allows a Space Marine to interface directly with his Power Armour.

Knowing this information we also can infer that the Space Marines are more efficient and battle worn than most of the Spartans could ever be.

Infact the Marine Implementation process takes around 4 years to complete.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

That's the enhancement which also means they can't breathe, right? On account of the fact that they'd have to break open their ribcage in order for the diaphragm to be able to work properly.

Lungs can still expand down into the stomach. I would also assume that some minor alteration is made to the lungs themselves.

There lungs are designed to be a lot more efficient as well.

**A Town Called Malus**

Grey Templar wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

That's the enhancement which also means they can't breathe, right? On account of the fact that they'd have to break open their ribcage in order for the diaphragm to be able to work properly.

Lungs can still expand down into the stomach. I would also assume that some minor alteration is made to the lungs themselves.

Then that would involve moving the whole diaphragm, considering it goes above and around the stomach, liver etc.

Considering that it also plays a part in other bodily functions such as urination and bowel movements I think it would be incredibly idiotic to mess with it as it would require the stomach to be moved completely along with the bladder (and by connection the kidneys) unless you wanted space marines who couldn't go to the toilet.

**Torga_DW**

Maybe thats why space marines are always so angry in the fluff?

**Asherian Command**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:

Not true. Spartans may be resistant to bullets since their bones are actually hardened but I don't know if that works against military grade rounds to the head. Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof. I would assume it would make his head bullet resistant but I can't say for certain.

That's the enhancement which also means they can't breathe, right? On account of the fact that they'd have to break open their ribcage in order for the diaphragm to be able to work properly.

Lungs can still expand down into the stomach. I would also assume that some minor alteration is made to the lungs themselves.

Then that would involve moving the whole diaphragm, considering it goes above and around the stomach, liver etc.

Considering that it also plays a part in other bodily functions such as urination and bowel movements I think it would be incredibly idiotic to mess with it as it would require the stomach to be moved completely along with the bladder (and by connection the kidneys) unless you wanted space marines who couldn't go to the toilet.

Well considering how advanced it is to make a space marine in the first place. I am pretty sure that a space marines physiology is well beyond that of a humans. Seeing how they actually do go to the bathroom.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Asherian Command wrote:
The greatest marine to ever live is John Perry from Old Mans War. Who took down an entire alien armada and civilization. By himself.

Don't believe me? Read the book series XD. They took down ships sometimes with their weapons. Giant Aliens the size of small frigates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War

The best marine is still doomguy.

Asherian Command wrote:
I disagree. Considering a marine can kill a termgaunt pretty easily. Zergling is a much smaller termagaunt.

One zergling could kill a hundred termagants by herself. A thousand maybe.

Asherian Command wrote:
Oh god your logic is hilarious..

Thank you! Your logic is at least as hilarious as mine

.

Asherian Command wrote:
Nope. But neither has it been shown that they could take one down in terms of lore of cinematics.

So maybe the right answer is “We do not know”?

Asherian Command wrote:
We are not using ingame mechanics otherwise marines would win no matter what.

Ingame mechanics means the Starcraft marines win, yes, of course. With one medivac/medic, one marine would be able to tank 10 40k marines.

**Redcruisair**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have a similar enhancement called the Ossmodula which actually makes their chest bullet proof.

I think you missed the part where I specifically mentioned the words "bullet" and "head". Who cares if your space marines can spit acid and have fused ribcages that constricts their breathing? Terran marines are more numerous, easier and quicker to produce/train, plus they have a more streamlined battle functionality.

Being good at punching things really hard won’t help a space marine the slightest when it starts to rain with bullets.
Sensible quantity is superior to dysfunctional quality, yo.

**TheCustomLime**

I'm not familiar with the Starcraft universe so I'll have to take your word for it. But I'm inclined to believe that 1v1 Terran marines would get their butts kicked versus a Space Marine.

**Ashiraya**

I am familiar with both settings, and 40K Marines seem to play on a whole different level to the other Marines.

I mean, Jim Raynor smacks around Tychus Findlay while the latter is wearing Terran Marine armour. I'd love to see a human who could beat up an armoured Space Marine with his fists. Protip: Such a thing doesn't exist.

Terran Marines, in their lore, are displayed the same way as Marines are shown on the tabletop; they are oneshotted by almost everything.

**Redcruisair**

TheCustomLime wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Starcraft universe so I'll have to take your word for it. But I'm inclined to believe that 1v1 Terran marines would get their butts kicked versus a Space Marine.

I think it could go both ways. It ultimately depends upon who got the better cover and who gets to fire first. Though, admittedly, such a scenario would slightly favor space marines due to their heightened reflexes.

See? I can be reasonable too.

**Torga_DW**

Their reflexes are worthless in this case: terran marines don't miss.

**Asherian Command**

TheCustomLime wrote:
I'm not familiar with the Starcraft universe so I'll have to take your word for it. But I'm inclined to believe that 1v1 Terran marines would get their butts kicked versus a Space Marine.

The starcraft universes marines are actually no different than an ordinary human they basically have armor and a big gun and thats about it.

Starcraft marines are basically cannon fodder, not elite at all.

Terran Marines have no additional biological enhancements.

Their reflexes are worthless in this case: terran marines don't miss.

ummm. Yes they do. Look at the cinematics. Remember they do miss they are humans. Stop bieng completely unreasonable shesh.

**Ashiraya**

Asherian Command wrote:
Starcraft marines are basically cannon fodder, not elite at all.

This should be emphasised. The human faction in Starcraft is certainly not able to be generous with their resources, but their Marines are still criminals and similar who are sent as cannon fodder and consistently suffer catastrophic casualties.

**Asherian Command**

Ashiraya wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
Starcraft marines are basically cannon fodder, not elite at all.

This should be emphasised. The human faction in Starcraft is certainly not able to be generous with their resources, but their Marines are still criminals and similar who are sent as cannon fodder and consistently suffer catastrophic casualties.

I mean I am more of a blizzard fan than I am a GW fan XD

But their lore is extremely well thought out. I love their tanks, I love everything about starcraft but. You have to admit that their marines are so untrained its hilarious. Remember how many casualities the Terran suffered during their civil war? Billions. BILLIONS in a war that lasted a few months.

That is their military getting slaughtered quite quickly.

**A Town Called Malus**

Ashiraya wrote:
... and consistently suffer catastrophic casualties.

Just like certain chapters of 40K marines, then

**Ashiraya**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Ashiraya wrote:
... and consistently suffer catastrophic casualties.

Just like certain chapters of 40K marines, then

Only on the tabletop!