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2015/01/04 13:12:19
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Stormwall wrote: The amount of ignorance of these games is astounding on the first few pages. I feel like you would have to play all three and be a fluff nerd to make the comparisions. Some of the wiser people in this thread have it seems though.
IMO, it is:
Space Marine,
Spartan,
Starcraft Marine.
A Spartan and Starcraft Marine would be a tough tango due to the weapon calibers, a Space Marine would wipe the floor with both. Unless...
You go by tabletop standards... yeah, then the Space Marines would lose. Or if you happened to paint them yellow. However, this thread is about fluff, not TT like so many people have commented. It is not a Space Marine's weapons, armor, or anything along those lines that matters. It is the genetic modifications. It is the same implants that make a Spartan strong, turned up to 11. If a Spartan had the same extensive amount of implants as a Space Marine, they would be awesome. (I use that in the real meaning of the word.) I am also unsure how they would far against a Space Marine due to the weaponry, though people are correct in saying they wouldn't hesitate to pick up alien weaponry.
IMO, it is the genetic modifications that make a Spartan and a Space Marine so powerful. Starcraft Marines have an extensive arsenal of weapons that make them formidable however.
Grey Templar wrote: MJOLNIR armor is actually surprisingly weak in terms of protection.
The shield is the only substantial protection it offers, and it gets overloaded with even a couple weak hits from a covenant plasma pistol. Legendary difficulty is the "canon" difficulty setting if you want to do comparisons. And once the shield is down, the Spartan goes down quickly.
Also, legendary is the "canon," difficulty for Halo? Yeah right... I normally agree with you too Grey. It is worth noting that the shield scales with the difficulty, and this...
It states that in every game, at least since Halo 2. Heroic is a cakewalk on a sunday compared to Legendary for a Spartan. (INB4 someone rips this post apart to pieces without context or just to do it for the hell of it, and/or states this is a straw man because I am a filthy console peasant and deserve this fate .)
Anyways, why do I keep using IMO in this post? 40k was made to be OTT and crazy, the size of the ships alone dwarf almost ever other fictional fantasy/space universe. It is a hyperviolent galaxy. I use IMO as there are no numbers to be crunched for all of these, so the only thing we can do in this thread is guest-i-mate. I feel like I should scan all my Starcraft, Halo, and Space Marine fluff books resources (collector editions that I got from friends etc,) like implants, armor, and upload them here to add to the conversion but, I doubt it would be appreciated.
Also, please ignore my typos, the computer is still trying to autocorrect this to Swedish because I use Chrome.
Edit: And please forgive the salt all over this post. I hadn't had morning coffee yet and now I feel like I came across as rude.
I am also of this same opinion.
On a 100 v 100 v 100 with "close to standard" loadouts, IMO we have Space Marine > Spartan > Starcraft Marine.
If you start adding Tanks, things get blurred.
Add Space Warships, and 40k wipes the floor again.
Then you add "The Array" Rings, and that's just a reset button for the whole argument....
Also, as a side note, it came up in another post: There is NO cannon for 40k, just peoples' views. So we're back to all using IMO
DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass.
2015/01/04 16:34:20
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
There is NO cannon for 40k, just peoples' views. So we're back to all using IMO
Every time someone says that. They are mostly saying that to get out of an argument or discussion or trying to make every point sound stupid and nebilious. We call this straw manning and distracting from main points. Instead of taking the words of actual lore and agreeing with it, you just basically shut down everyones argument because of some idiot literally said that once.
And has not been confirmed ever since.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/04 16:46:26
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
No. Learn what this expression means.
Beside, the fluff is pretty clear that Starcraft marines are better than 40k marines .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/01/04 16:57:48
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
No. Learn what this expression means.
Beside, the fluff is pretty clear that Starcraft marines are better than 40k marines .
What a logical fallacy where they literally misinterperted the authors original meaning and taking his words and misrepresenting it for what they are. Yeah I know what it means.
Don't act all high and mighty when you have added little to the conversation at hand and has only become a nuisance and a troll in this thread.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/04 17:22:03
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Stormwall wrote: The amount of ignorance of these games is astounding on the first few pages. I feel like you would have to play all three and be a fluff nerd to make the comparisions. Some of the wiser people in this thread have it seems though.
IMO, it is:
Space Marine,
Spartan,
Starcraft Marine.
A Spartan and Starcraft Marine would be a tough tango due to the weapon calibers, a Space Marine would wipe the floor with both. Unless...
You go by tabletop standards... yeah, then the Space Marines would lose. Or if you happened to paint them yellow. However, this thread is about fluff, not TT like so many people have commented. It is not a Space Marine's weapons, armor, or anything along those lines that matters. It is the genetic modifications. It is the same implants that make a Spartan strong, turned up to 11. If a Spartan had the same extensive amount of implants as a Space Marine, they would be awesome. (I use that in the real meaning of the word.) I am also unsure how they would far against a Space Marine due to the weaponry, though people are correct in saying they wouldn't hesitate to pick up alien weaponry.
IMO, it is the genetic modifications that make a Spartan and a Space Marine so powerful. Starcraft Marines have an extensive arsenal of weapons that make them formidable however.
Grey Templar wrote: MJOLNIR armor is actually surprisingly weak in terms of protection.
The shield is the only substantial protection it offers, and it gets overloaded with even a couple weak hits from a covenant plasma pistol. Legendary difficulty is the "canon" difficulty setting if you want to do comparisons. And once the shield is down, the Spartan goes down quickly.
Also, legendary is the "canon," difficulty for Halo? Yeah right... I normally agree with you too Grey. It is worth noting that the shield scales with the difficulty, and this...
It states that in every game, at least since Halo 2. Heroic is a cakewalk on a sunday compared to Legendary for a Spartan. (INB4 someone rips this post apart to pieces without context or just to do it for the hell of it, and/or states this is a straw man because I am a filthy console peasant and deserve this fate .)
Anyways, why do I keep using IMO in this post? 40k was made to be OTT and crazy, the size of the ships alone dwarf almost ever other fictional fantasy/space universe. It is a hyperviolent galaxy. I use IMO as there are no numbers to be crunched for all of these, so the only thing we can do in this thread is guest-i-mate. I feel like I should scan all my Starcraft, Halo, and Space Marine fluff books resources (collector editions that I got from friends etc,) like implants, armor, and upload them here to add to the conversion but, I doubt it would be appreciated.
Also, please ignore my typos, the computer is still trying to autocorrect this to Swedish because I use Chrome.
Edit: And please forgive the salt all over this post. I hadn't had morning coffee yet and now I feel like I came across as rude.
I am also of this same opinion.
On a 100 v 100 v 100 with "close to standard" loadouts, IMO we have Space Marine > Spartan > Starcraft Marine.
If you start adding Tanks, things get blurred.
Add Space Warships, and 40k wipes the floor again.
Then you add "The Array" Rings, and that's just a reset button for the whole argument....
Also, as a side note, it came up in another post: There is NO cannon for 40k, just peoples' views. So we're back to all using IMO
UNSC tanks are kind of pants. Actually, the Scorpion is such a crappy vehicle that the only reason it does well is because the Covenant vehicle pool manages to be even worse somehow. It has armor that's vulnerable to .50 cal and Anti-material fire, slower than any modern MBT and has an inferior gun. It also has a stupid as hell machine gun set up that only makes sense if you remember that it was designed for a video game. A Predator would mop the floor with a Scorpion. An M1 Abrams would wreck a scorpion. A Tiger tank has a decent chance against a scorpion if it gets the drop on it.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/01/04 19:11:19
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
It would be cool to just see a warhammer 40k day where a bunch of animators animated a bunch 40k space marines just fighting against famous super heroes.
Also who said Starcraft marines? Those guys would get their butts kicked.
I guess the Marvel world is getting nuked then. Mutants everywhere.
Then the only survivor would be the hulk. XD
The Hulk is the exact type of creature Mass Reactive Bolter shells were designed to take out.
As a bit of a comic book nerd this made me shiver to the core. You all honestly think Astartes would do anything but be slaughtered like small children against Superman and Hulk?
Please read at least their most basic feats before proclaiming a Bolter will bring them down... The Marvel, DCU and for what it's worth Dragon Ball universes are on a whole other level to 40k and other Sci-fi settings.
2015/01/04 19:14:14
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
The hulk gets at least superficial wounds from .50 cal rounds.
Bolter rounds are .75 cal and explode once they penetrate. Once the Hulk has a few open wounds the bolt rounds will begin blasting larger and larger chunks out of his body.
Its certainly going to take a lot of shots, but the Hulk isn't invincible like Super Man. he's just really really tough.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
It would be cool to just see a warhammer 40k day where a bunch of animators animated a bunch 40k space marines just fighting against famous super heroes.
Also who said Starcraft marines? Those guys would get their butts kicked.
I guess the Marvel world is getting nuked then. Mutants everywhere.
Then the only survivor would be the hulk. XD
The Hulk is the exact type of creature Mass Reactive Bolter shells were designed to take out.
As a bit of a comic book nerd this made me shiver to the core. You all honestly think Astartes would do anything but be slaughtered like small children against Superman and Hulk?
Please read at least their most basic feats before proclaiming a Bolter will bring them down... The Marvel, DCU and for what it's worth Dragon Ball universes are on a whole other level to 40k and other Sci-fi settings.
Agreed. I know that super heroes would win no matter what. They are on a whole other level.
The hulk gets at least superficial wounds from .50 cal rounds.
Bolter rounds are .75 cal and explode once they penetrate. Once the Hulk has a few open wounds the bolt rounds will begin blasting larger and larger chunks out of his body.
Its certainly going to take a lot of shots, but the Hulk isn't invincible like Super Man. he's just really really tough.
i have yet to see the hulk die.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/04 19:22:52
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
It would be cool to just see a warhammer 40k day where a bunch of animators animated a bunch 40k space marines just fighting against famous super heroes.
Also who said Starcraft marines? Those guys would get their butts kicked.
I guess the Marvel world is getting nuked then. Mutants everywhere.
Then the only survivor would be the hulk. XD
The Hulk is the exact type of creature Mass Reactive Bolter shells were designed to take out.
As a bit of a comic book nerd this made me shiver to the core. You all honestly think Astartes would do anything but be slaughtered like small children against Superman and Hulk?
Please read at least their most basic feats before proclaiming a Bolter will bring them down... The Marvel, DCU and for what it's worth Dragon Ball universes are on a whole other level to 40k and other Sci-fi settings.
Agreed. I know that super heroes would win no matter what. They are on a whole other level.
The hulk gets at least superficial wounds from .50 cal rounds.
Bolter rounds are .75 cal and explode once they penetrate. Once the Hulk has a few open wounds the bolt rounds will begin blasting larger and larger chunks out of his body.
Its certainly going to take a lot of shots, but the Hulk isn't invincible like Super Man. he's just really really tough.
i have yet to see the hulk die.
Marvel Zombies. Pretty sure Hulk dies there.
Also, Deadpool kills the marvel universe.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2015/01/04 19:39:44
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: What a logical fallacy where they literally misinterperted the authors original meaning and taking his words and misrepresenting it for what they are.
No. It is not just misrepresenting what someone says. It is misrepresenting something that someone says so that you can pretend it to be stupid. Which was not the case here. They were not misrepresenting what GW said to pretend that what GW said was stupid, but that what you said was stupid.
(And actually, they were not even misrepresenting anything, but hey, am I ever going to convince you of that?)
Let me give you an example of what a real strawman is. Suppose for instance that I said many time that female gaze exists, but that it is not catered too in most video game. Now suppose that you pretend I said that female gaze does not exist, and point links to tv-trope to prove it exists. Then you are doing a strawman because you are misrepresenting what I say to prove me wrong. This is not what BlackTalos did.
Asherian Command wrote: Don't act all high and mighty when you have added little to the conversation at hand and has only become a nuisance and a troll in this thread.
Oh my. You did not like what I said because I did not agree with you. Sorry about that.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/01/04 19:59:42
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Redcruisair wrote: Though, admittedly, such a scenario would slightly favor space marines due to their heightened reflexes.
Well, stimpacks are basically like Dark Eldars combat drugs, but better, so thanks to them Starcraft marines get better reflexes.
Oh gawd Stimpacks… They are like the sci-fi version of the POWERTHIRST drink, with the added side effects of LSD…
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
2015/01/04 20:48:51
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Redcruisair wrote: Though, admittedly, such a scenario would slightly favor space marines due to their heightened reflexes.
Well, stimpacks are basically like Dark Eldars combat drugs, but better, so thanks to them Starcraft marines get better reflexes.
Oh gawd Stimpacks… They are like the sci-fi version of the POWERTHIRST drink, with the added side effects of LSD…
not to mention it is extremely posionious to the blood streams and is dangeorus in general for the Marines to use. Hence why their health takes a dump on them. It only increases reflexes not strength or overall coordination or precision.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/04 22:00:10
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Marvel Zombies. Pretty sure Hulk dies there.
Also, Deadpool kills the marvel universe.
Oh yeah I forgot about those two events.
I just looked it up apparently the hulk has died on many occasions.
Heres a list of people who have killed the hulk.
The Abomination
Rulk
Cable and Storm
Galactus
Shadow Cat
Blink
Night Crawler
Galactus
Franklin Richards
The Celestials
Namor
Thor
Odin
Zeus
Skaar
Phoenix Five
Thanos
Anyone with the Infinity Gauntlet
Adam Warlock
Beyonder
Molecule Man
Sentry/Void
Beta Ray Bill
Abraxas
In Earth-616 (the main Marvel Universe) Hulk has only "died" at the hands of Void although he has had his ass handed to him by the Beyonder and Eternity. There was someone who was able to vaporize most of his flesh but Hulk regenerated within seconds and commenced an ass whooping we all know and love Hulk for.
In alternate universes hulk's equivalents have died on many occasions but in Earth-616, Hulk is one of the few characters not to have experienced a cartoon death (unlike Captain America, Spiderman, Punisher, Human Torch...) Back in the horror that was Marvel in the 90's, Hulk pretty much killed the Marvel Universe before Punisher and Deadpool made it cool (I am glad though that it was retconned and that the wiping out of the Marvel Universes occur in silly alternate universes... Not so happy about the retconning of hulk rage lifting Mjolnir though...).
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
2015/01/04 23:32:08
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: not to mention it is extremely posionious to the blood streams and is dangeorus in general for the Marines to use.
Take a chance! Take a chance! Take a chance!
Asherian Command wrote: Hence why their health takes a dump on them. It only increases reflexes not strength.
Stimpacks allow marines and maradurs to outrun zerg, while shooting them at the same time. So something must happen to their bodies since they can sprint like mad cheetahs.
Wrong. Heightened reflexes also increase coordination and precision. You are less likely fire wildly since everything happens in slow motion and your body moves at a heightened speed, allowing for a quick and precise aim.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/04 23:37:58
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
2015/01/04 23:43:32
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: not to mention it is extremely posionious to the blood streams and is dangeorus in general for the Marines to use.
Are we talking about a “who lives longer” contest, or about a “who would kill the other” contest? 40k marines sure live way longer than Starcraft marine if they do not meet a bloody end in battle, but yet Starcraft marines would kill 40k marines way faster than 40k marines would kill Starcraft marines.
Asherian Command wrote: It only increases reflexes not strength or overall coordination or precision.
Starcraft marines never miss. Ever.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2015/01/04 23:50:18
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: not to mention it is extremely posionious to the blood streams and is dangeorus in general for the Marines to use.
Are we talking about a “who lives longer” contest, or about a “who would kill the other” contest? 40k marines sure live way longer than Starcraft marine if they do not meet a bloody end in battle, but yet Starcraft marines would kill 40k marines way faster than 40k marines would kill Starcraft marines.
Asherian Command wrote: It only increases reflexes not strength or overall coordination or precision.
Starcraft marines never miss. Ever.
Yeah, about that...
They weren't even dodging... Also, that missile guy should have been in the game. I was really sad there wasn't a missile unit in BW :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/04 23:52:00
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2015/01/05 00:00:06
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: It only increases reflexes not strength or overall coordination or precision.
Starcraft marines never miss. Ever.
They also shoot faster after taking Stimpacks. For some reason the guns gain a significant increase in their rate of fire when the wielder is tripping on stimpacks… Weird.
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
2015/01/05 00:01:47
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: It only increases reflexes not strength or overall coordination or precision.
Starcraft marines never miss. Ever.
They also shoot faster after taking Stimpacks. For some reason the guns gain a significant increase in their rate of fire when the wielder is tripping on stimpacks… Weird.
I always thought it had something to do with recoil.
Before they couldn't handle the recoil, so they fired slowly.
Now that they are tripping balls, they don't care about recoil, so they just hold down the trigger.
An ork would have been proud
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2015/01/05 00:05:50
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
That was a nice explanation. Thank you CthuluIsSpy.
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
2015/01/05 00:42:00
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: not to mention it is extremely posionious to the blood streams and is dangeorus in general for the Marines to use.
Take a chance! Take a chance! Take a chance!
Asherian Command wrote: Hence why their health takes a dump on them. It only increases reflexes not strength.
Stimpacks allow marines and maradurs to outrun zerg, while shooting them at the same time. So something must happen to their bodies since they can sprint like mad cheetahs.
Wrong. Heightened reflexes also increase coordination and precision. You are less likely fire wildly since everything happens in slow motion and your body moves at a heightened speed, allowing for a quick and precise aim.
That still comes at an extreme cost. It all decreases many of the strength over all of the subject. Stims have a lot of down sides.
Its funny you say that considering in every cinematic and book marines are killed rather quickly.
See Starcraft Ghosts: cinematic trailer where they are missing every shot.
Face it your grasping at straws. Once that trip ends they are back to being. If you use it too much you die quicker.
Space Marines have no drawbacks in that regard.
Starcraft Marines have to use stims to get a fraction of their speed or power out, while a marine can do it much better with less reliance on drugs. Not to mention Space Marines fight from a long distance not up close and personal like some people think they do. Starcraft Marines have to be up closer. Look at the cinematics and starcraft they have to literally be infront of them and 30 yards away for them to even hit it.
Space Marines have the benefits of being super human to the levels that make starcraft marines all but a nuisance to a space marine.
It would basically be like this:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/05 01:00:45
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/05 01:10:29
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
So 40k marines win any comparison arguments because plot convenience?
I still don't understand why you're so focused on their biological enhancements - thats what armour is for. It just speaks to the shoddiness of 40k armour that they need to invest such considerable resources into the wearers to make up for the armour. Armour which doesn't noticably augment the strength and abilities of the wearer (no statline changes to marines or sisters for wearing it), while the sc marine starts throwing punches like a tank. They usually don't, however, because C-14.
So the sc marines have taken stimms and died after mopping the floor with the 40k marines..... okay, call the jail and get me 100 more prisoners, plenty where they came from. Churn out a few more hundred suits of armour as well, just to be sure. The 40k marines are lurking at the edges of the battlefield trying to recover their precious wargear & geneseed? Have fun with wave 2.
Give me 100 starcraft marines, or failing that give me 1000 other spartans.
2015/01/05 03:54:40
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Nah. The 100 Marines would turn the 1000 Spartans into bits of flesh and charred armor with their bolters and lose maybe 10 guys in return if the Spartans are packing serious heat. For the UNSC, anyway.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/01/05 04:35:48
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Torga_DW wrote: So 40k marines win any comparison arguments because plot convenience?
I still don't understand why you're so focused on their biological enhancements - thats what armour is for. It just speaks to the shoddiness of 40k armour that they need to invest such considerable resources into the wearers to make up for the armour. Armour which doesn't noticably augment the strength and abilities of the wearer (no statline changes to marines or sisters for wearing it), while the sc marine starts throwing punches like a tank. They usually don't, however, because C-14.
So the sc marines have taken stimms and died after mopping the floor with the 40k marines..... okay, call the jail and get me 100 more prisoners, plenty where they came from. Churn out a few more hundred suits of armour as well, just to be sure. The 40k marines are lurking at the edges of the battlefield trying to recover their precious wargear & geneseed? Have fun with wave 2.
Give me 100 starcraft marines, or failing that give me 1000 other spartans.
Their armor is made out of Ceramite which is an extremely durable and powerful.
Starcraft Marine armor is made from... Steel.
Well that concludes the entirety of the discussion.
The only thing going for it is its recoil resistance. Apparently to the lore it is mostly designed to prevent the massive amounts of recoil from the Gauss Rifle.
Also according to the lore the armor is not as protective as they wish it to be.
According to some of the lore it is easily damaged and a stray bullet can rip open the visor (As seen in many cinematics.)
Give me a hundred space marines anyday.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2015/01/05 07:51:02
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Asherian Command wrote: Their armor is made out of Ceramite which is an extremely durable and powerful.
Starcraft Marine armor is made from... Steel.
Why are you assuming that ceramite (which is not a real material) is so vastly superior to an equally fictional steel?
According to some of the lore it is easily damaged and a stray bullet can rip open the visor (As seen in many cinematics.)
So what? As I said before this is not a valid way of comparing the two universes. The fact that a Starcraft weapon can easily damage Starcraft armor does not mean that a 40k weapon can do the same, just like the fact that a Culture combat drone might be able to kill another Culture combat drone in one shot does not mean that a space marine would even be capable of scratching the drone's paint.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/01/05 10:28:58
Subject: Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Yeah, close-combat weapons are pretty useless when employed against a walking tank with rocket launchers for fists. Besides, what can chainswords even do to a Maradur? Maradurs have none of the weakpoints space marine suffers from.
The big thing that favors the marauders: they take drugs.
And those drugs enable them to stutter step like crazy so they can kite just about anything.
I dare the Space Marines to take that many drugs !
A Rhino moving Combat Speed moves 6" (500 meters per your estimate). A Rhino itself is only 3" long (250 meters per your estimate). Per GW the official length of a Rhino is 6.6 meters. Well short of your estimate.
Well he is correct, horizontal space is condensed and it stands to reason that a weapon like a bolter would at least have a 2000 meters effective range, or 3000 meters for a pulse carbine.
Models however, are not condensed in any direction because that would make them look like thin spikey ugly bits of plastic.
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Torga_DW wrote: Thats the problem with using 'ingame' metrics to prove how awesome space marines are. Mjolnir armour is weak because it can only take a couple of plasma rounds before the occupant dies. While with marine armour its pretty much a guaranteed kill with one shot.
Marines don't need power weapons to blow up most tanks in melee, their fists do it just fine. I think we need to bring the hulk into this discussion.
It's not really one shot though, it's normalized to one shot in the rules, but it is assumed that they're firing all the time, even while moving, and that some weapons fire twice as much (assault 2, etc.) and others even more.
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Martel732 wrote: 40K is low-powered because it is a retro-future. We have better targeting in our military today than the Imperium does.
Yes, that's a bit sad too.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/01/05 10:40:19
2015/01/05 13:46:52
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes vs. MJOLNIR Spartan vs. StarCraft Marine
Just a heads up to anyone here who doesn't know, the picture Ash posted is a photoshopped version of the picture in the spoiler tag bellow.
Clearly, the author of the picture wanted to display how he enjoyed both settings. But people like Ash is all for putting space marines on a pedestal, at the cost of losing what little credibility his has left. Most of us here can see the space marines for what they really are: illogical and wasteful in every way.
Spoiler:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/05 14:08:38
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
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The Empire 
1500 pts
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~4100
~1660
