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 Peregrine wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Their armor is made out of Ceramite which is an extremely durable and powerful.

Starcraft Marine armor is made from... Steel.

Why are you assuming that ceramite (which is not a real material) is so vastly superior to an equally fictional steel?

Steel is incredibly weaker.

According to the lore Ceramite is incredibly hard and extremely durable. Made from a mix of materials and tampered to be far more stronger than steel.

Steel is not even earth's strongest material Titanium is.

Marine armor (Starcraft) is not as durable as evidenced by the fact that straw bullets kill them quite easily.

AS they also fail quite often in the cinematics to also hit anything.

According to some of the lore it is easily damaged and a stray bullet can rip open the visor (As seen in many cinematics.)

So what? As I said before this is not a valid way of comparing the two universes. The fact that a Starcraft weapon can easily damage Starcraft armor does not mean that a 40k weapon can do the same, just like the fact that a Culture combat drone might be able to kill another Culture combat drone in one shot does not mean that a space marine would even be capable of scratching the drone's paint.

So what? That shows that their armor is not as protective as you people keep saying it is. You guys keep making stuff up just to prolong the argument. That is all that is going on here. Its just four people who keep repeating themselves and only are trying to prove me and many posters who have all said the same thing 40k wins hands down. 40k is one of the strongest SCI-FI universes out there. But it is not the strongest.

ust a heads up to anyone here who doesn't know, the picture Ash posted is a photoshopped version of the picture in the spoiler tag bellow.

Clearly, the author of the picture wanted to display how he enjoyed both settings. But people like Ash is all for putting space marines on a pedestal, at the cost of losing what little credibility his has left. Most of us here can see the space marines for what they really are: illogical and wasteful in every way.

YOu mean how it was editted to how both settings were actually like?

The Starcraft Marines are highly if at all as effective as Space Marines. They fall flat in comparison.

People keep saying all this nonsense such as they don't have better targeting systems than we do today. Even though we have posted several times that is not true.

Such as the Auspex and the helmet visors helping them with that.

And lets not forget that space marines also have terminator armor,

 Torga_DW wrote:
So 40k marines win any comparison arguments because plot convenience?

Wait, is there any other reason to solve any inter-fictional universe battle than “plot convenience”? I find SC marines cooler and therefore I make up reasons why they win. Asherian does the same with 40k marines. But all those reasons are bogus, there is simply no way to have any meaningful comparison, because there is no common point of reference.

Every goddamn point made in that discussion really boils down to made up reason why fictional characters from different fictional universe with no common reference point are superior to each other. “Ceramite is stronger than whatever metal CMC is made of”. Yeah, neither exist, so we will never get to actually test it. Maybe neither are even physically possible. But hey, let us just state made-up facts like they were self-explanatory.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Just a heads up to anyone here who doesn't know, the picture Ash posted is a photoshopped version of the picture in the spoiler tag bellow.

Clearly, the author of the picture wanted to display how he enjoyed both settings. But people like Ash is all for putting space marines on a pedestal, at the cost of losing what little credibility his has left. Most of us here can see the space marines for what they really are: illogical and wasteful in every way.

Spoiler:

That is… glorious. Just glorious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:
The Starcraft Marines are highly at all as effective as Space Marines.

Yes.

Starcraft marines don't have to snap shot vs flyers. They automatically hit them, too!

There is another thing marines have in their favor: Healing.

If you are a space marine and get wounded, then mostly you’re all out of luck. You just sit around waiting for an apothecary to come your way, in which case you’re probably already dead and his only here to harvest your leftovers.

Marines on the other hand have medics regally assigned to their squads, who can patch them up in now time. Yes the medics can even heal the aftereffects of Stimpacks, (so much for that prolem, Ash.)
The medivac is even more amazing. Isn’t it thought provoking that, Terran’s have flying healing busses, who uses lasers to operate on marines while said marines are in the middle of a firefight?

Apothecaries seem so tame in comparison to that.

 Asherian Command wrote:


Steel is not even earth's strongest material Titanium is.

Wrong.

Either way, the strongest materials are almost always either alloys or better arrangements of already tough materials.

If there's a humanity 38000 years from now, those materials will very likely be made of many thin layers of different materials arranged in a specific way (molecular level lattices) for maximum weight efficiency and the composite factor.

Given what we know from current armor and future technologies, I'd even wager it would also have micro reactive layers in the mix.




Basically, GW technology is either magical or really pitiful for a civilization 1000+ years from now, oftentimes worse than current non-secret weapons.

Starcraft Marines are just cannon fodder so there's no comparison with the IoM's super soldiers.

 Redcruisair wrote:
There is another thing marines have in their favor: Healing.

If you are a space marine and get wounded, then mostly you’re all out of luck. You just sit around waiting for an apothecary to come your way, in which case you’re probably already dead and his only here to harvest your leftovers.

Marines on the other hand have medics regally assigned to their squads, who can patch them up in now time. Yes the medics can even heal the aftereffects of Stimpacks, (so much for that prolem, Ash.)
The medivac is even more amazing. Isn’t it thought provoking that, Terran’s have flying healing busses, who uses lasers to operate on marines while said marines are in the middle of a firefight?

Apothecaries seem so tame in comparison to that.

Not true, as marines can take quite a bit of damage. As their suits are basically able to repair minor fractures or wounds. Any major injuries will have to be treated by a apothecary.

Medics also have the problem of being extremely prone to being shot in the head and killed rather quickly.

As seen in the cinematic where all the marines were mostly killed by a few shots of the c-14s.


Apothecaries are meant as a last result. Apothecaries can save marines from extremely fatal wounds.

Yet again your comparison falls flat.

As super humans > humans

Space Marines are more effective and better equipped than the STarcraft marines ever are.

The problem is that their armor is made out steel. That is the strongest material they have in their arensal for infantry is nanosteel (Marauder).

Meaning it is inferior to the Adeptus Astartes Power Armor.

Wrong.

Either way, the strongest materials are almost always either alloys or better arrangements of already tough materials.

If there's a humanity 38000 years from now, those materials will very likely be made of many thin layers of different materials arranged in a specific way (molecular level lattices) for maximum weight efficiency and the composite factor.

Given what we know from current armor and future technologies, I'd even wager it would also have micro reactive layers in the mix.




Basically, GW technology is either magical or really pitiful for a civilization 1000+ years from now, oftentimes worse than current non-secret weapons.

Starcraft Marines are just cannon fodder so there's no comparison with the IoM's super soldiers.

Ah so basically ceramite is probably a mixture of materials and materials.

If Terran marines are expendable, doesn't that make them more comparable to guardsmen?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If Terran marines are expendable, doesn't that make them more comparable to guardsmen?

Basically.

That is a great comparision and one that the Starcraft Marines might be able to win.

morgoth wrote:
Basically, GW technology is either magical or really pitiful for a civilization 1000+ years from now, oftentimes worse than current non-secret weapons.

It’s probably the former, or combination of the two. And you know what? That’s pretty cool.

40K being the byproduct of a bygone age where everything is falling apart, where stagnation and narrow-mindedness are considered to be real virtues, is the thing I enjoy of about 40K. That’s what makes 40K stand out from other sci-fi/space fantasy settings, (granted it’s still just a cheap imitation of Dune, but whatever.)

 Asherian Command wrote:
That is the strongest material they have in their arensal for infantry is nanosteel (Marauder).

Meaning it is inferior to the Adeptus Astartes Power Armor.

Because fictional non-existing pseudo-science nanosteel is clearly inferior to fictional non-existing pseudo-science ceramite, as shown by… reasons! Non-existing reasons of truth!

 Asherian Command wrote:
Apothecaries are meant as a last result. Apothecaries can save marines from extremely fatal wounds.

They can’t save anyone. Space marines die with one hit.

Apothecaries can only lessen the chance of a mortal wound occurring. They’re all terrible at their jobs!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
That is the strongest material they have in their arensal for infantry is nanosteel (Marauder).

Meaning it is inferior to the Adeptus Astartes Power Armor.

Because fictional non-existing pseudo-science nanosteel is clearly inferior to fictional non-existing pseudo-science ceramite, as shown by… reasons! Non-existing reasons of truth!

NanoSteel is extremely weak compared to many different types of alloys.

Nanosteel is not more effective than steel its lighter weight and can be layered better than Steel. Allowing you to layer it over and over. But that does not mean it is more effective than Ceramite.

nanosteel exists its just sounds cool and thats about it.

Adamanitum is technically also used in Ceramite but seeing as this is fictionalized vs Fictionalized that argument you used means very little.

They can’t save anyone. Space marines die with one hit.

Apothecaries can only lessen the chance of a mortal wound occurring. They’re all terrible at their jobs!

False

They do not die from one hit like you have said. In the lore it takes multiple hits for a marine to be taken down. Infact the weapons used in the 40ks wars are extremely potent that make no sense to us but do to the marines.

Railguns being extremely old technology to space marines,

and something completely new to the Terran.

Meaning that space marine's heavy weapons are more advanced than you would think.

Apothecaries also often save their patients.

Look up the Battles the Space Marines had against imperial guard. They rarely lost any forces. The only time they have lost a considerable force is if they faced overwhelming numbers.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
That is the strongest material they have in their arensal for infantry is nanosteel (Marauder).

Meaning it is inferior to the Adeptus Astartes Power Armor.

Because fictional non-existing pseudo-science nanosteel is clearly inferior to fictional non-existing pseudo-science ceramite, as shown by… reasons! Non-existing reasons of truth!

No Hybrid, you see. It clearly makes sense to Ash, so we should just accept his words without question it. The gospel of Ash is the single truth, and the only truth.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Apothecaries are meant as a last result. Apothecaries can save marines from extremely fatal wounds.

They can’t save anyone. Space marines die with one hit.

Apothecaries can only lessen the chance of a mortal wound occurring. They’re all terrible at their jobs!

Where are you getting one hit? You are aware that losing a wound =/= death, right?
It's an abstraction for being out of action. The only time where is it certain a model is killed is due to instant death.

Though I think this was really only explained in detail in the 4th ed brb; later editions do not have this explanation. Because GW is lazy and bad at their jobs.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Apothecaries are meant as a last result. Apothecaries can save marines from extremely fatal wounds.

They can’t save anyone. Space marines die with one hit.

Apothecaries can only lessen the chance of a mortal wound occurring. They’re all terrible at their jobs!

Uhhh... Marines have excellent self healing capabilities. Apothecaries are more for the "Half of the body blown off" wounds.

Don't rain on my parade CthuluIsSpy!

You should have brought an umbrella then

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
That is the strongest material they have in their arensal for infantry is nanosteel (Marauder).

Meaning it is inferior to the Adeptus Astartes Power Armor.

Because fictional non-existing pseudo-science nanosteel is clearly inferior to fictional non-existing pseudo-science ceramite, as shown by… reasons! Non-existing reasons of truth!

No Hybrid, you see. It clearly makes sense to Ash, so we should just accept his words without question it. The gospel of Ash is the single truth, and the only truth.

Only fools think I am all knowing.

In this case you have only insulted me and my opinion.

Nanosteel is completely inferior due to the fact that it needs to be layered in order for it to be even close to being effective.

 Asherian Command wrote:
NanoSteel is extremely weak compared to many different types of alloys.

You have no knowledge of physics, do you? You know nothing about how alloys work, am I right?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Railguns being extremely old technology to space marines,

Ah!

 Asherian Command wrote:
Nanosteel is completely inferior due to the fact that it needs to be layered in order for it to be even close to being effective.

Oh, that is very clear. Also, writing a RNG is very very hard. And tons of other stuff. That is common sense! No need to do any actual research on it.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Apothecaries are meant as a last result. Apothecaries can save marines from extremely fatal wounds.

They can’t save anyone. Space marines die with one hit.

Apothecaries can only lessen the chance of a mortal wound occurring. They’re all terrible at their jobs!

Uhhh... Marines have excellent self healing capabilities. Apothecaries are more for the "Half of the body blown off" wounds.

Not shown in the game.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Infact the weapons used in the 40ks wars are extremely potent that make no sense to us but do to the marines.

I think you've got it backwards. The weapons and technology of 40K are faulty and nonsensical. That’s the whole point with 40K.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Railguns being extremely old technology to space marines, and something completely new to the Terran.

Source?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Meaning that space marine's heavy weapons are more advanced than you would think.

I REALLY doubt that. Missile launchers and oversized bolters don’t in anyway appear amazingly advanced to me. Only the plasma cannon have that cool sceincy vibe to it. But I’m not that impressed with it, given it’s as likely to kill its wielder as its intended target.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Apothecaries also often save their patients.

Then single him out and kill him. There it’s done. No more healing for the space marines.

One apothecary per company is just laughable compared to what a simple Terran militia can muster.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The only time they have lost a considerable force is if they faced overwhelming numbers.

They’re always outnumbered. Even chaos warbands have the potential to outnumber them.

Or in the fluff, really.

Martel732 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Apothecaries are meant as a last result. Apothecaries can save marines from extremely fatal wounds.

They can’t save anyone. Space marines die with one hit.

Apothecaries can only lessen the chance of a mortal wound occurring. They’re all terrible at their jobs!

Uhhh... Marines have excellent self healing capabilities. Apothecaries are more for the "Half of the body blown off" wounds.

Not shown in the game.

It is shown in game. You just don't read the after math or the lore.

There is difference between a Casualty and a confirmed kill.

Then single him out and kill him. There it’s done. No more healing for the space marines.

One apothecary per company is just laughable compared to what a simple Terran militia can muster.

There is only one apothecary because that is all they need.

The Terran marines won't get the drop on a super human. Good luck.

Or in the fluff, really.

In the fluff marines take out whole planets and can pacify it in a week.

The Raven Guard knowingly operate behind enemy lines with very little ammunition.

Source?

Space Marine Ships have a railgun on the starboard of their ship.

The basic physical principle behind Railgun technology is well known to the Adeptus Mechanicus, but the Imperium has never been able to utilise it in a worthwhile form due to the myriad of issues inherent in the operation of such weapons. The limitations of such technology include the staggering amount of power required to propel the projectile along the rail, and the dissipation of the heat generated by the process. The Tau appear to have implemented solutions to these problems, and many Hereteks amongst the Adeptus Mechanicus would very much like to understand how.

The Imperium have superior weapons called beam weaponry, which basically makes the the entire need to have a railgun nullified. It is useful but it is a single round burst that makes the weapon quite inferior.

(as today we can actually build Rail Guns)

Considering marines have to constantly fight against railguns. (with railguns being used on tau vechiles.)

And the Marines usually pulling off victory after victory against the Tau forces and the Tau almost being competely defeated by a Single Crusade Fleet that barely had any titans or support. But left because there was more important fish to fry.

How is it shown in the game? Please enlighten me.

Because tacticals all get Feel No Pain, and characters get It will not die, duh!

T4.
That's where that 4 comes from. It represents all the enhancements, including healing factor.

To put it in perspective -

Orks are T4. They are meant to be nearly insensitive to pain, and their wounds seal up, due to the properties of their blood and flesh

Necrons are T4. They are made out of metal

It would be quite impressive, if S4+ weapons weren't so common.
WHFB is a bit better at making T4 attractive in this regard.
I like to think of this as a form of inflation, probably having something to do with the popularity of marine armies.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
T4.
That's where that 4 comes from. It represents all the enhancements, including healing factor.

To put it in perspective -

Orks are T4. They are meant to be nearly insensitive to pain, and their wounds seal up, due to the properties of their blood and flesh

Necrons are T4. They are made out of metal

It would be quite impressive, if S4+ weapons weren't so common.
WHFB is a bit better at making T4 attractive in this regard.

That's pitiful. Especially since T4 is a joke in 40K right now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
T4.
That's where that 4 comes from. It represents all the enhancements, including healing factor.

To put it in perspective -

Orks are T4. They are meant to be nearly insensitive to pain, and their wounds seal up, due to the properties of their blood and flesh

Necrons are T4. They are made out of metal

By game mechanics, that isn't very impressive with the amount of firepower thrown about. It certainly doesn't support the low amount of space marine casualties in many stories in the fluff.

Bolter shots will kill them 1/6th of the time, Pulse Rifles: 2/9ths, Lasguns: 1/9th and so on.

So Marines wading through enemy fire and emerging alive is not a statistical likelihood, if T4 and a 3+ save is meant to represent all of their toughness super powers.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Because tacticals all get Feel No Pain, and characters get It will not die, duh!

It is also shown by the fact that when a space marine gets a strength boost as well compared to regular human.

Marines have t4 and s4. While Regular imperial guard have t3 and s3.



Remember any weapon that has strength twice as much as the toughness suffer instant death rules.

A marine bolter tearing apart the flesh of orks quite easily and killing guardsmen quite easily.

By game mechanics, that isn't very impressive with the amount of firepower thrown about. It certainly doesn't support the low amount of space marine casualties in many stories in the fluff.

Bolter shots will kill them 1/6th of the time, Pulse Rifles: 2/9ths, Lasguns: 1/9th and so on.

So Marines wading through enemy fire and emerging alive is not a statistical likelihood, if T4 and a 3+ save is meant to represent all of their toughness super powers.

Stastically it isbetter than most other races.

With eldar often suffering major casualities versus space marines.

And Orks suffering horrifying highdeaths.

You also have to remember that space marines during the crusades lost a company and that was considered normal.

Space marines only deploy now as shock troopers.

The mere sight of a marine stirs fear within any.

Considering the fact also marines only die after being blown to small bits it is extremely funny to hear people say. "Nah. They can't"

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Because tacticals all get Feel No Pain, and characters get It will not die, duh!

It is also shown by the fact that when a space marine gets a strength boost as well compared to regular human.

Marines have t4 and s4. While Regular imperial guard have t3 and s3.



Remember any weapon that has strength twice as much as the toughness suffer instant death rules.

A marine bolter tearing apart the flesh of orks quite easily and killing guardsmen quite easily.

Until said guardsmen gets behind some cover. Marein bolters are one of the worst weapons in the game. The more you smack talk about them, the more ridiculous you look. You're probably just trolling anyway.