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 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
T4.
That's where that 4 comes from. It represents all the enhancements, including healing factor.

To put it in perspective -

Orks are T4. They are meant to be nearly insensitive to pain, and their wounds seal up, due to the properties of their blood and flesh

Necrons are T4. They are made out of metal

By game mechanics, that isn't very impressive with the amount of firepower thrown about. It certainly doesn't support the low amount of space marine casualties in many stories in the fluff.

Bolter shots will kill them 1/6th of the time, Pulse Rifles: 2/9ths, Lasguns: 1/9th and so on.

So Marines wading through enemy fire and emerging alive is not a statistical likelihood, if T4 and a 3+ save is meant to represent all of their toughness super powers.

Yeah, it's one of the oddities of the game. It's a form of inflation, really.
How popular were S4 weapon in earlier editions of the game? How did power armor work?

Iirc, Terminator armor worked differently to now; back then it was a fail on a roll of a 2 or a 3 on a 2d6, resulting in a 2/36 chance of failure.
To put it in perspective, Terminator armor has a 1/6 chance of failing.
Did such a change result from a greater presence of terminators on the field?

Terminators were still garbage. Bolters were still garbage. 2nd ed was all about fast tyranids abusing the "shoot the closest squad" rule and sonic blasters team up with blight grenades and Eldar instant-death weapons. The marines were actually unplayable in 2nd.

Martel732 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Because tacticals all get Feel No Pain, and characters get It will not die, duh!

It is also shown by the fact that when a space marine gets a strength boost as well compared to regular human.

Marines have t4 and s4. While Regular imperial guard have t3 and s3.



Remember any weapon that has strength twice as much as the toughness suffer instant death rules.

A marine bolter tearing apart the flesh of orks quite easily and killing guardsmen quite easily.

Until said guardsmen gets behind some cover. Marein bolters are one of the worst weapons in the game. The more you smack talk about them, the more ridiculous you look. You're probably just trolling anyway.

You have only used board rules and tabletop rules. I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
T4.
That's where that 4 comes from. It represents all the enhancements, including healing factor.

To put it in perspective -

Orks are T4. They are meant to be nearly insensitive to pain, and their wounds seal up, due to the properties of their blood and flesh

Necrons are T4. They are made out of metal

Yarrick is T4. He is a BAMF.

I'm really just tweaking your nose in that how different the marines are in practice from their fluff. But, again, the fluff can be anything any author writes down. The game, however, is in print , and is much more quantifiable.

Martel732 wrote:
Terminators were still garbage. Bolters were still garbage. 2nd ed was all about fast tyranids abusing the "shoot the closest squad" rule and sonic blasters team up with blight grenades and Eldar instant-death weapons. The marines were actually unplayable in 2nd.

Stop making things up.

All you have done is say things.

I can literally make a call and get a 2nd edition rulebook. Quite Quickly. You have only made things up in terms of rules and only proved your terrible knowledge of the board game and its history.

now I know you are making stuff up. 3rd Edition Terminators were extremely good, fourth edition as well. 5th Edition is when they slid down into not being good as more and more races had access to high strength weapons.

Back in fourth there were barely any strength 10 or ap 1 weaponry in the entire game.

The Marines and Eldar having most of the weaponry.

I'm really just tweaking your nose in that how different the marines are in practice from their fluff. But, again, the fluff can be anything any author writes down. The game, however, is in print , and is much more quantifiable.

According to you.

There have been many marine loses the Fall of Damnos being quite famous as a defeat yet having lost very few marines.

You keep saying that but you keep forgeting the terran have the same thing.

The Equal footing and ideas the terran marines are better because they are more advanced is hilarious as they do not have medical technology within their armor that stops clots.

Space Marines have been shown time and time again as being better than the average human.

Yarrick is T4. He is a BAMF.

Yarrick is also mostly bionics and cybernetic enhancements to the point of being ridiculous.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
T4.
That's where that 4 comes from. It represents all the enhancements, including healing factor.

To put it in perspective -

Orks are T4. They are meant to be nearly insensitive to pain, and their wounds seal up, due to the properties of their blood and flesh

Necrons are T4. They are made out of metal

Yarrick is T4. He is a BAMF.

He is also part machine. He is a pretty cool guy though.
He's probably descended from the Doomguy.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

Realistic .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

Realistic .

If we're going realistic then any stray round into a space marines power pack could melt them with radiation.

Walking nuclear power plants are not good.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Back in fourth there were barely any strength 10 or ap 1 weaponry in the entire game.

I had S8 AP1 weapons all over my codex from 3rd edition onward. Inferno pistol, melta, multi-melta, exorcist missiles. Also remember that all power weapons used to be AP2.

 Asherian Command wrote:
There is only one apothecary because that is all they need.

Really now?

Six hundred years before the arrival of the Sin of Damnation, the Blood Angels' entire chapter was decimated during a failed assault on another space hulk in the Secoris system, leaving only fifty marines in the whole chapter.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The Terran marines won't get the drop on a super human. Good luck.

Don’t worry. Shooting the guy will do the trick. Apothecaries always stand out from their brethren like a sore thumb.

And should a Terran commander consider the Apothecary to be an important enough target, then a Ghost will get the drop on them, trust me.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Stuff

Let me clarify. Where does it say Terrans only recently discovered railguns?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

Realistic .

If we're going realistic then any stray round into a marines power pack could melt them with radiation.

So basically, a marine is a walking A-Bomb.
That makes the Angry Marine launcher much scarier.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Back in fourth there were barely any strength 10 or ap 1 weaponry in the entire game.

I had S8 AP1 weapons all over my codex from 3rd edition onward. Inferno pistol, melta, multi-melta, exorcist missiles. Also remember that all power weapons used to be AP2.

Short ranged though, and not deployed in great numbers.
Exorcists are AP1? Aren't they just glorified krak missiles?

Marines also tended to have access to more power weapons.
There was at least 1 power weapon in every marine squad back when I played in 4th.
As a necron, it was very painful.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

Realistic .

If we're going realistic then any stray round into a marines power pack could melt them with radiation.

You mean the Terran Marines?

Because that is very true. A stray bullet could kill an entire marine.

Lets not forget during the Battle of Istavaan 3 after the life eater virus was unleashed anyone that had any battle injuries were immedately killed by the virus within seconds.

The most powerful weapons terrans have.. ARe nukes.

The Imperium has cyconle missles, and weapons that make the terran marines look inferior.

Space marines have plasma, Lascannons, rockets (krak (implosion) and frag (Explosion))

Meaning the Space Marines have far superior heavy weapons and armor and tactics.

They are also warriors without peer. And very rarely are they taken down.

Space marines are also immune to raditiation almost all forms of posioning. (Except in very rare cases)


The only ones who would stand a chance are Terran Ghosts.

But they still lack the protection of a Space Marine.

Ghosts die rather quickly once spotted by a group of marines. (Terran)

Considering how easy they can kill a Terran Marine. The Only equals to space marines are Ghosts.

Ghost attacks from a distance where you can’t spot them or return fire. The perks of being a sniper, yo.

Yeah, sniper rifles out range bolters.
Not sure if it will pierce the armor though. Maybe in a joint or something.
Or the apparently-explosive backpack.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
There is only one apothecary because that is all they need.

Really now?

Six hundred years before the arrival of the Sin of Damnation, the Blood Angels' entire chapter was decimated during a failed assault on another space hulk in the Secoris system, leaving only fifty marines in the whole chapter.

A Space Marine chapter known as the Invaders destroyed an entire craftworld.

A space marine chapter known as the minotaurs destroyed a superiorly armed chapter fleet quite easily.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The Terran marines won't get the drop on a super human. Good luck.

Don’t worry. Shooting the guy will do the trick. Apothecaries always stand out from their brethren like a sore thumb.

And should a Terran commander consider the Apothecary to be an important enough target, then a Ghost will get the drop on them, trust me.

Not really space marines can still detect cloaked units. The Imperium have assassins that are quite superior. Considering that marines go for the throat. Meaning by the time the terran marines learn that the space marines are there. All information is cut and all the Space Marines have gone and killed the entire command structure. Ghosts will lose their edge without a compentent commanders. Marines do not go in for one on one battle they are special forces and shock troopers they go for enemy commanders.

They are not meant for wars of attrition. That is not what they are used for.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Stuff

Let me clarify. Where does it say Terrans only recently discovered railguns?

Diamond Backs are relatively rediscovered technology on diamond backs. But they are not that effective and are shown to be not as powerful as shipboard railguns.

"Stop making things up.

All you have done is say things.

I can literally make a call and get a 2nd edition rulebook. Quite Quickly. You have only made things up in terms of rules and only proved your terrible knowledge of the board game and its history.

now I know you are making stuff up. 3rd Edition Terminators were extremely good, fourth edition as well. 5th Edition is when they slid down into not being good as more and more races had access to high strength weapons. "

I HAVE a 2nd edition rulebook. That's not the point. The good stuff is all in the army codices of 2nd ed. Of which you clearly have no real knowledge or played in a very weak meta. Don't forget pulsa rokkit spam.

Terminators weren't good in 3rd because of the advent of power weapons and making plasma go from -2 armor save to AP 2. Let me repeat this: in metas where players know what they were doing, terminators were rarely good, with a few notable exceptions.

Marines were good in 3rd because of rhino rush and the liberal ways to get into HTH.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Short ranged though, and not deployed in great numbers.

All kind of range: 6", 12", 24" 48".
Not deployed in great number? A BSS can be fitted with 2 melta 1 combi-melta, 2 bolters, in an immolator with multi-melta. A dominion squad can be fitted with 4 melta, 1 combi-melta, in an immolator with multi-melta. Each exorcist fire d6. A seraphim squad with 6 bolt pistols, 4 inferno pistols. I can have much more S8 AP1 shots that I have bolter shots in my army.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Exorcists are AP1?

Yeah. They are and have always been AP1. They just lack the melta/armorbane rule.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

Realistic .

If we're going realistic then any stray round into a marines power pack could melt them with radiation.

So basically, a marine is a walking A-Bomb.
That makes the Angry Marine launcher much scarier.

Not necessarily an A-bomb, but certainly a walking Chernobyl or Fukushima.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am stinking them in the middle using both their lore and tabletop rules together to create what could be considered realistic.

Realistic .

If we're going realistic then any stray round into a marines power pack could melt them with radiation.

So basically, a marine is a walking A-Bomb.
That makes the Angry Marine launcher much scarier.

Not necessarily an A-bomb, but certainly a walking Chernobyl or Fukushima.

So, an Angry Dirty Bomb launcher.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, sniper rifles out range bolters.
Not sure if it will pierce the armor though. Maybe in a joint or something.
Or the apparently-explosive backpack.

A space marine backpack is.. A backpack with environmental systems for pressurized areas. In the lore these things are really hard to damage and are very heavily armored .

There is no fusion reactor in it. It is an unknown power source that according to the lore is infinite.

I have yet to read a space marine running out of power for his suit.

A ghost cannot take out a hundred marines. A ghost is a comparision and the only people able to be able to reasonably take it out. But space marines have fairly more capable weaponry. Such as the Kraken Bolters and lascannons being able to outrange anything the Terran Marines have on hand.

I think several of the HH novels mention Marines charging their backpacks..

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Short ranged though, and not deployed in great numbers.

All kind of range: 6", 12", 24" 48".
Not deployed in great number? A BSS can be fitted with 2 melta 1 combi-melta, 2 bolters, in an immolator with multi-melta. A dominion squad can be fitted with 4 melta, 1 combi-melta, in an immolator with multi-melta. Each exorcist fire d6. A seraphim squad with 6 bolt pistols, 4 inferno pistols. I can have much more S8 AP1 shots that I have bolter shots in my army.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Exorcists are AP1?

Yeah. They are and have always been AP1. They just lack the melta/armorbane rule.

Sheesh, good thing I didn't fight Witchhunters back then. I would not have been able to make a single WBB roll.

 Asherian Command wrote:


There is no fusion reactor in it. It is an unknown power source that according to the lore is infinite.

So it breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Therefore, if we were to apply any sort of realism, 40K Space Marine armour doesn't function. At all.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:


There is no fusion reactor in it. It is an unknown power source that according to the lore is infinite.

So it breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Therefore, if we were to apply any sort of realism, 40K Space Marine armour doesn't function. At all.

Tzeentch, the Warp and the Deceiver says hi.
Realism went out the door and moved to another country a long time ago.

Martel732 wrote:
"Stop making things up.

All you have done is say things.

I can literally make a call and get a 2nd edition rulebook. Quite Quickly. You have only made things up in terms of rules and only proved your terrible knowledge of the board game and its history.

now I know you are making stuff up. 3rd Edition Terminators were extremely good, fourth edition as well. 5th Edition is when they slid down into not being good as more and more races had access to high strength weapons. "

I HAVE a 2nd edition rulebook. That's not the point. The good stuff is all in the army codices of 2nd ed. Of which you clearly have no real knowledge or played in a very weak meta. Don't forget pulsa rokkit spam.

Terminators weren't good in 3rd because of the advent of power weapons and making plasma go from -2 armor save to AP 2. Let me repeat this: in metas where players know what they were doing, terminators were rarely good, with a few notable exceptions.

Marines were good in 3rd because of rhino rush and the liberal ways to get into HTH.

I laugh at you quite much.

Use the quotes button please.

In 3rd ed. Which I played in with my brother Terminators were extremely good when in combination with assualt marines. Combat rules ruled supreme in 4th and 3rd edition.

As terminator squads would deploy and slaughter entire units.

3rd also did not have those rules. You are maing it up again. I played third ed.

Power weapons only forced +3 armor saves to take an invulnerable save.

+2 did not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
I think several of the HH novels mention Marines charging their backpacks..

That was old technology remember. Space marine weaponry has evolved since the year 30k.

As evidence by the new marks of space marine armor and bolters being further improved.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:


There is no fusion reactor in it. It is an unknown power source that according to the lore is infinite.

So it breaks the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Therefore, if we were to apply any sort of realism, 40K Space Marine armour doesn't function. At all.

According to the law of thermodynamics certain astronomical events are impossible. Yet they happen.
(in the 40k universe that is)

Considering that a plasma weapon fires basically a miniature star at the enemies.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, sniper rifles out range bolters.
Not sure if it will pierce the armor though. Maybe in a joint or something.
Or the apparently-explosive backpack.

The rounds fired by Ghosts can pierce the thick carapace of an Ultralisk, so it should work fine against power armor.

Besides, power armor has major flaws in its design. The eyes, backpack, armor joints and the neck area are all weak points a skilled marksman can take advantage of.

Aren't the lenses bulletproof? Or am I thinking of the T-45b / T-51 from Fallout?

 Asherian Command wrote:
The most powerful weapons terrans have.. ARe nukes.

That is not true. They have the psi emitter. Zerging up your bases.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Space marines are also immune to raditiation almost all forms of posioning. (Except in very rare cases)

As evidenced by the fact they are affected by every poison in the game .

 Asherian Command wrote:
A space marine chapter known as the minotaurs destroyed a superiorly armed chapter fleet quite easily.

40k marines are able to kill other 40k marines. Therefore they are better than Starcraft marines.
Asherian logic™.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Meaning by the time the terran marines learn that the space marines are there. All information is cut and all the Space Marines have gone and killed the entire command structure.

Or that little thing called a detection tower worked, and the drop pod were decimated by missile tower anyway .

 Asherian Command wrote:
Marines do not go in for one on one battle they are special forces and shock troopers they go for enemy commanders. They are not meant for wars of attrition. That is not what they are used for.

Sure, that is how they are consistently portrayed in all of 40k fluff .

 Asherian Command wrote:
Diamond Backs are relatively rediscovered technology on diamond backs.

You do realize that
a) 40k railguns are not the same as Starcraft railguns anyway, and
b) only Tau have railguns in 40k, space marines have none of them and those are extremely powerful against them. By your logic, a diamondback would obliterate space marines like there is no tomorrow.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, sniper rifles out range bolters.
Not sure if it will pierce the armor though. Maybe in a joint or something.
Or the apparently-explosive backpack.

The rounds fired by Ghosts can pierce the thick carapace of an Ultralisk, so it should work fine against power armor.

Besides, power armor has major flaws in its design. The eyes, backpack, armor joints and the neck area are all weak points a skilled marksman can take advantage of.

The Neck is extremely hard to hit though. Eldar have been one of the few to actually pull this off.

Eyes (Incredibly small target)

Backpack (Stronger than you think)

ARmor Joints (possible but again are protected by armor in the front. Considering they are covered up.

Face it your only grasping at straws Hybrid.

Diamond backs are out of the picture once a marine shots it with a lascannon.