Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I also don't have any respect for a marine that gets his face beat in by Orks because he won't pack a knife in his rucksack.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Thats barring out many chapters that don't do that.

Many chapters?

Is 5 out of 1000 chapters many to you?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Alpha Legion

Alpha Legion is a chaos warband.

 Asherian Command wrote:
you won't convince me or change my mind on that.

I gave up on that a long time ago.

So CSM don't exist either it's all lies by Chaos renegades?

Well I have never seen a CSM with my own eyes, so I can neither confirm nor deny that.

 Bobthehero wrote:
So CSM don't exist either it's all lies by Chaos renegades?

Yep apparently to Red.

Or yes.

Apparently the horus heresy, The Macharian wars all that is also hogwash according to Red

Apparently it is myth and legend. Which makes me laugh quite a bit.

Nice strawman Ash.

No competition space marines don't matter what chapter or what company or anything they win period.

I'm sure tons of people are like "no they wouldn't bla bla bla" dont care starcraft troops are convict idiots who are slaughtered by little homergaunts... wait i mean zerglings.
Halo is cool and all but I don't think they could stand vs a space marines let alone hope there bullets can actually pierce there armor.

Make it far space marines in scout armor that's fair

 Redcruisair wrote:
Nice strawman Ash.

It was completely on purpose my friend

Make it far space marines in scout armor that's fair

Then Starcraft marines might have a chance.

I'll start writing up some tabletop rules from the games

And using TGs Chapter Master (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_(game)#External_Links)

Which allows us to simulate battles and things.

So you’re lying on purpose? I would expect nothing less from you.

 Redcruisair wrote:
So you’re lying on purpose? I would expect nothing less from you.

Hows that lying? Strawmanning isn't lying. Strawmanning is taking an argument and reducing it to certain level that it misses the whole point.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Nah it’s all myths. If space marines truly were used in big wars the way they are portrayed in the fluff, then they would all be dead by now.

Perhaps they are as dangerous as people say then
Imagine if they were used properly

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
Nah it’s all myths. If space marines truly were used in big wars the way they are portrayed in the fluff, then they would all be dead by now.

Perhaps they are as dangerous as people say then
Imagine if they were used properly

Just imagine the consequences of using them right. Like its described by raven guard and several chapters practices.

So we all agree on space marines being trash in general? Great!

 Redcruisair wrote:
So we all agree on space marines being trash in general? Great!

Trash? No.
They have all the parts needed to be legendary.
The problem is that the writers have conflicting ideas on how to portray them, which gets confusing.
I personally distaste the whole heroic space knight version of the Space Marines, as it tends to rely heavily on plot armor. Same reason why I don't like the Jedi.
Luke Skywalker should have died in that Death Star.

I never liked the idea of the Space Marines as an independent army on the battlefield; to me they should have always been supplements to a larger Imperial force, typically the Imperial Guard.
This is particularly perplexing when it comes to the table top game; you could have about 100 marines in a single FOC, which is about 10% of a chapter. That is ridiculous.
Now what they could do is start using chapter serfs on the field; there are more chapter serfs then there are marines.
With chapter serfs, huge battles with SM could be justified, as they now have the man power to actually fight head on.

If I sound confusing, I apologize; it's late over here.

 Redcruisair wrote:
So you’re lying on purpose? I would expect nothing less from you.

Someone who is seriously arguing that the Space Marines are extinct or nearly extinct probably shouldn't take the high ground here.

A Space Marine would kill a Spartan easily. I don't know about Terran Marines.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I personally distaste the whole heroic space knight version of the Space Marines, as it tends to rely heavily on plot armor. Same reason why I don't like the Jedi.
Luke Skywalker should have died in that Death Star.

You know, it's funny that you say this when the only reason Luke survived the death star attack is that Han (an average human with no magic powers) decided that there was something more important than money and came back to save him.

 Peregrine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I personally distaste the whole heroic space knight version of the Space Marines, as it tends to rely heavily on plot armor. Same reason why I don't like the Jedi.
Luke Skywalker should have died in that Death Star.

You know, it's funny that you say this when the only reason Luke survived the death star attack is that Han (an average human with no magic powers) decided that there was something more important than money and came back to save him.

I take it all those Stormtroopers forgot to clean their helmet lenses then?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I personally distaste the whole heroic space knight version of the Space Marines, as it tends to rely heavily on plot armor. Same reason why I don't like the Jedi.
Luke Skywalker should have died in that Death Star.

You know, it's funny that you say this when the only reason Luke survived the death star attack is that Han (an average human with no magic powers) decided that there was something more important than money and came back to save him.

I take it all those Stormtroopers forgot to clean their helmet lenses then?

I'm guessing Cthulu was referring to Return of the Jedi? In that case the imperials had a bit more to worry about than one dude carrying Darth Vader considering that the Executor had crashed into the Death Star and it was starting to lose structural integrity.

Not to mention all the rebel ships outside, deflector shield down and imminent threat of destruction etc.

He's mentioning that the storm troopers couldn't hit luke skywalker when they shot at him, in Ep IV.

Apparently the Die Hard films are also about Jedi, and so is like

The Untouchables?

I guess the heroes get shot in that movie, but I'm kind of blanking. I don't watch a lot of action movies. The Postman?

Wow, I'm having a really hard time coming up with movies involving gunfights.

This post was supposed to be so succinct.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
What I said was the following..... Anything created by GW is considered common ground or canon, while the books or players guides from FFG and Black Library are not considered true canon.

Games Workshop's official stance is that all of the fluff is told by an unreliable narrator, and is therefore true and false at the same time. Warhammer 40K has continuity and consistency, but nothing can be truly described as canon, as the powers that be never set anything in stone. Or to put it another way, Space Marines look a certain way and behave along certain guidelines, but exact details change depending on who is telling the story.

And some storytellers like Space Marines a lot *wink* *wink*

I meant that part in Episode 4 where Skywalker was in enemy territory, and was running away from a bunch of trained soldiers who were quite familiar with their territory, and who had plenty of clear shots.

Anyway, it helps if you consider the Space Marines to suffer from a chronic case of Worf syndrome.
They are like, an army of Worfs.

Adeptus Astartes! Too easy on this one.. Come back when the lore for these other clowns has been developed a bit more. Starcraft somewhat borrowed the idea from 40k anyways of a tactical space marine. Of course 40k adopted its ideas from other premise as well but overall i consider most of their material to be quite original. IMO i would take a 40k space marine to be far superior to these other guys if following lore and not tabletop of which there is a large disparity for a reason as for the actual gameplay to be more fair and balanced.

Actually the concept of tactical space marines comes from Starship troopers.
The book, not the movie.

" if following lore"

But in the lore of the Xenos, they own the Space Marines. Maybe GW's tabletop game is telling us we should listen to that lore instead.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Someone who is seriously arguing that the Space Marines are extinct or nearly extinct probably shouldn't take the high ground here.

You would put me lower than someone who regularly misquotes other people posts and makes huge sweeping blanket statements?

Hmm that’s interesting.

Martel732 wrote:
" if following lore"

But in the lore of the Xenos, they own the Space Marines. Maybe GW's tabletop game is telling us we should listen to that lore instead.

Sometimes. If really depends if the author wants to Worf the Space Marines or not, to show that the latest threat to the Imperium is srs bizniss.

Any Worfing of the Space Marines basically supports the tableto p versions, not the fluff versions.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Someone who is seriously arguing that the Space Marines are extinct or nearly extinct probably shouldn't take the high ground here.

You would put me lower than someone who regularly misquotes other people posts and makes huge sweeping blanket statements?

Hmm that’s interesting.

Hmm misquoting.

Please PM me with those misquotes.

And blanketing statements?

Where?

Any Worfing of the Space Marines basically supports the tableto p versions, not the fluff versions.

Not really. You keep saying that but I could show you the video games. Where a single group of 4 space marines have as much health as 12 orks

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Someone who is seriously arguing that the Space Marines are extinct or nearly extinct probably shouldn't take the high ground here.

You would put me lower than someone who regularly misquotes other people posts and makes huge sweeping blanket statements?

Hmm that’s interesting.

Hmm misquoting.

Please PM me with those misquotes.

And blanketing statements?

Where?

Any Worfing of the Space Marines basically supports the tableto p versions, not the fluff versions.

Not really. You keep saying that but I could show you the video games. Where a single group of 4 space marines have as much health as 12 orks

Now there the Worfing is not in effect.

Doesn't change the fact that there is directly contradictory lore.