More idiocy from protestors

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**Ouze**

Frazzled wrote:
*No more "noknock" warrant entries absent murder/battery/orkidnapping in progress.
*No SWAT teams for any federal govenrment entity outside of DOJ, Marshals, Secret Service and other specifically defined anticrime units.
*No SWAT teams serving warrants except for violent felons. Normal warrants-no SWAT teams.
*Elimination of sale of surplus military equipment to the PoPo from the federales.
*Elmination of sale of seized properties for benefit of the state (ie can't seize a car with drugs found in it and then sell the car, giving the money to the PoPo or government)
*Mandatory implacement of conflict de-escalation technique training for police.

SInce the recent events I'd add:
*special prosecutor or at least 3rd party DA (from nearby jurisdiction) or empanelled judiciary review of police shootings (like a 3 judge board of review) of people and dogs. "Following procedure" is not sufficient defense to trump the state's criminal statutes.
*mandatory body cams THAT CAN'T BE TURNED OFF.
.

I agree pretty much with everything here. Unfortunately, body cams are sort of meaningless when it turns out you can choke a dude to death and get away with it despite it being videotaped.

I'd go a big further on asset forfeiture, but that's probably worthy of a thread of it's own. I read a story pretty recently that I'll post as a new thread when I get off work.

**Jihadin**

Talking Garner?

**Frazzled**

curran12 wrote:
I'm on board, Frazzled. I can't pay you in money, but I can pay you in sausages.

Ghost Tbone, Herald of the Great Wiener Dog, approves.

**Sigvatr**

Albatross wrote:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.

Are we going to throw definitions at each other now?

If you do anything that specifically targets someone because of his skin color, then that's racist. Period.

**hotsauceman1**

Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

**Frazzled**

Ouze wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
*No more "noknock" warrant entries absent murder/battery/orkidnapping in progress.
*No SWAT teams for any federal govenrment entity outside of DOJ, Marshals, Secret Service and other specifically defined anticrime units.
*No SWAT teams serving warrants except for violent felons. Normal warrants-no SWAT teams.
*Elimination of sale of surplus military equipment to the PoPo from the federales.
*Elmination of sale of seized properties for benefit of the state (ie can't seize a car with drugs found in it and then sell the car, giving the money to the PoPo or government)
*Mandatory implacement of conflict de-escalation technique training for police.

SInce the recent events I'd add:
*special prosecutor or at least 3rd party DA (from nearby jurisdiction) or empanelled judiciary review of police shootings (like a 3 judge board of review) of people and dogs. "Following procedure" is not sufficient defense to trump the state's criminal statutes.
*mandatory body cams THAT CAN'T BE TURNED OFF.
.

I agree pretty much with everything here. Unfortunately, body cams are sort of meaningless when it turns out you can choke a dude to death and get away with it despite it being videotaped.

I'd go a big further on asset forfeiture, but that's probably worthy of a thread of it's own. I read a story pretty recently that I'll post as a new thread when I get off work.

Agreed on both. However, body cams provide more evidence, and if reviewed by a 3rd party (to me grand juries are worthless, for many reasons) would lend support to guilt OR innocence. Its just one tool in the box.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

China!

**curran12**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

Cameras like that, and those that monitor other professions (truck drivers, for example) do not simply store tens of thousands of hours of footage, right? At most, they purge and refresh on a semi-daily basis.

**hotsauceman1**

curran12 wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

Cameras like that, and those that monitor other professions (truck drivers, for example) do not simply store tens of thousands of hours of footage, right? At most, they purge and refresh on a semi-daily basis.

And what if someone comes a year later or even a few days later and tries to say something like "That cop caressed me"

**easysauce**

dashcams and wearable versions generally upload to a server somewhere,

storing many terabytes is now a trivial thing really, I can set up about 10 cameras in my house with 24/7 recording that auto archives each day for a few hundred bucks.

I actually think it would save the police/government money as it would make investigations less costly and have other tertiary benefits.

**Ouze**

curran12 wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

Cameras like that, and those that monitor other professions (truck drivers, for example) do not simply store tens of thousands of hours of footage, right? At most, they purge and refresh on a semi-daily basis.

The cameras do not store the data locally, nor should they. "I shot a guy, and then oops, I lost the camera" would ensue otherwise.

As a IT professional, I assure you, networked storage is incredibly cheap.

So far as who pays for it, the same people who paid for the police officer's gun, uniform, cruiser, etc. Kind of a weird question HSM.

**easysauce**

when a protest says "only blacks allowed" and specifically targets "white supremacist brunches"

yeah, its racially motivated and racist.

this thread would prove that many people can only comprehend racism from one group, but not another.

this group has zero moral high ground over any other group that yells their opinions at people, no better then PETA or westboro and might actually be worse due to racial profiling of victims and participants.

**reds8n**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

The same people who pay for the current court cases and payouts.

... have fun with that BTW, most of us older members will be dead before your generation even pays off the interest.

**cincydooley**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Sooo, who is going to pay for all the body cams and the servers to store all that footage?

Same place we fund schools!

Casinos and the Lottery! Wooo Hoo!

But in all seriousness, taxes from selling marijuana would be a great start. Get rid of tons of non-violent offenders in our system while encouraging said non-violent offenders to put money back into the system. Win-Win.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

I don't give a flying feth what a protester's pet cause is. Inconveniencing and harassing me as I'm going about my daily life (getting to work, going home, enjoying my lunch etc) is just going to harden my attitude and leave me frustrated and less inclined to give a gak. If they want my support and sympathy on whatever issue they're protesting, they should approach me in a more respectful and reasonable way. Ask politely for a moment of my time, give me a leaflet, direct me to a website, give a speech in a public area (i.e. not in a fething cafe)...

Oh, and INB4 someone calls me a rich middle class white person - I've just today gotten a job working three 12 hour shifts over weekends on a factory assembly line.

**CptJake**

Networked storage is cheap. Mobile comms to get the data from the camera to the storage is not. That is a lot of data, and not a lot of LE departments are located where existing infrastructure can move the data.

I guess you could download after shift, but then you run the same risk of device getting lost or broken before a download.

**Ouze**

reds8n wrote:

The same people who pay for the current court cases and payouts.:

Oh, you.

**A Town Called Malus**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
"That cop caressed me"

Either you guys in the US have a weird problem with your police officers, or this is one of the greatest typos I've seen on this board

**whembly**

can't figure out how to embed a scribd applet to dakka...

But, here's the full "manual" for that brunch protest:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/251747732/Black-Brunch-Manual-For-Disruption

**Ahtman**

Harping on the pamphlet seems a bit like pretending the KKK represents all white people. Finding a few idiots in a group isn't that tough to do, but holding them up as an example of the whole takes extra effort. I suppose what is important is that we not deal with the serious issues but get caught up arguing about the ephemera.

Besides, who doesn't trust The Conservative Treehouse as a source?

**cincydooley**

Ahtman wrote:
Harping on the pamphlet seems a bit like pretending the KKK represents all white people. Finding a few idiots in a group isn't that tough to do, but holding them up as an example of the whole takes extra effort. I suppose what is important is that we not deal with the serious issues but get caught up arguing about the ephemera.

I don't think anyone's claiming that point in particular. I haven't been. I think it does support the notion that it's racist.

**Jihadin**

The Importance of Black Spaces for Black People
Anti-Black racism is a violent force that often diminishes the safety of Black people in public spaces. We reclaim our humanity and right to unapologetically hold space in public. Our history of struggle for Black liberation continues and we proudly draw on the tactics of previous Black struggles including slave rebellions, civil disobedience used during the Civil Rights Movement and movement to end apartheid in South Africa. Our focus on the plight of Black people “every 28 hours” is drawn from the work of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement and our call to action is inspired by the struggle of young Black people on the ground everyday in Ferguson, MO. Anti-Black racism is taught and often perpetuated among non-Black people of color, thus we also recognize the importance in creating spaces that uplift Black life and Black voice, while still ﬁnding ways to build coalition with our non-Black comrades and allies.
Background

Black Brunch is a form of resistance and a direct action tactic based out of Oakland, CA. Young Black leaders organized Black Brunch in response to the historic violence and unjust crimes committed against Black people in America. Leaders of Black Brunch understand that Black people around the world face many forms of violence, anti-Black racism, and oppression, and thus critical and creative intervention is needed on a number of levels to address these issues. What’s happened in Ferguson and New York is happening in Oakland. There is a war on Black people in America that cannot be ignored and the Black Brunch tactic is one that is committed to interrupting ‘business as usual’ until the war against us has ended. Black Brunch was curated by Black folks all around Oakland and the Bay Area. Some of us are organizers, community members, students, and those who are just genuinely outraged at the injustices Black people are forced to confront daily, in the US. It is our goal that this manual will help black people across the US to carry the weight of their pain to communities and to people who otherwise never have to think or feel for us. The beauty in the Black Brunch tactic is that it is easily replicable and allows for Black folks of all backgrounds, generations, identities etc. to mobilize together and create space for inclusive Black leadership and Black resistance.
#BlackBrunch #BlackLivesMater #BYP100

Think they need a better approach

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Jihadin wrote:
The Importance of Black Spaces for Black People
Anti-Black racism is a violent force that often diminishes the safety of Black people in public spaces. We reclaim our humanity and right to unapologetically hold space in public. Our history of struggle for Black liberation continues and we proudly draw on the tactics of previous Black struggles including slave rebellions, civil disobedience used during the Civil Rights Movement and movement to end apartheid in South Africa. Our focus on the plight of Black people “every 28 hours” is drawn from the work of the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement and our call to action is inspired by the struggle of young Black people on the ground everyday in Ferguson, MO. Anti-Black racism is taught and often perpetuated among non-Black people of color, thus we also recognize the importance in creating spaces that uplift Black life and Black voice, while still ﬁnding ways to build coalition with our non-Black comrades and allies.
Background

Black Brunch is a form of resistance and a direct action tactic based out of Oakland, CA. Young Black leaders organized Black Brunch in response to the historic violence and unjust crimes committed against Black people in America. Leaders of Black Brunch understand that Black people around the world face many forms of violence, anti-Black racism, and oppression, and thus critical and creative intervention is needed on a number of levels to address these issues. What’s happened in Ferguson and New York is happening in Oakland. There is a war on Black people in America that cannot be ignored and the Black Brunch tactic is one that is committed to interrupting ‘business as usual’ until the war against us has ended. Black Brunch was curated by Black folks all around Oakland and the Bay Area. Some of us are organizers, community members, students, and those who are just genuinely outraged at the injustices Black people are forced to confront daily, in the US. It is our goal that this manual will help black people across the US to carry the weight of their pain to communities and to people who otherwise never have to think or feel for us. The beauty in the Black Brunch tactic is that it is easily replicable and allows for Black folks of all backgrounds, generations, identities etc. to mobilize together and create space for inclusive Black leadership and Black resistance.
#BlackBrunch #BlackLivesMater #BYP100

Think they need a better approach

They're demanding Blacks Only spaces?

I think we need new protestors. These ones are nuts.

**Albatross**

Frazzled wrote:
But the state wasn't in those restaraunts. Rich liberals were.

Yeah, but Fraz, those are the people (as are all citizens) whom the state is supposed to serve. And let's face it, the current situation is not going to change until the more comfortable middle class get with the program. And it's not just about stopping cops from killing people; the african-american community needs to fix the problems that cause those deaths too. That's not something that's going to happen without the engagement of society as a whole and that starts with awareness. As with so much, it'll only cross over into the mainstream once white people are onboard.

Again, I'm just fine with rich liberals being inconvenienced at lunch whenever possible, and would enjoy youtube footage for my amusement.

Yep.

But helping the cause (I guess the cause needs to be defined) not a whit.

Yet here we are, talking about the issue. Maybe that's the point. Maybe the solution comes later.

And as for your Tshirt-"the Clash?" Respect.

The Dude Abides.

EDIT: In support of my "real legislation proposed" argument this is part of what I had on discussions on the rabid scenery chewing sites, where concern about police overreach is widespread:

*No more "noknock" warrant entries absent murder/battery/orkidnapping in progress.
*No SWAT teams for any federal govenrment entity outside of DOJ, Marshals, Secret Service and other specifically defined anticrime units.
*No SWAT teams serving warrants except for violent felons. Normal warrants-no SWAT teams.
*Elimination of sale of surplus military equipment to the PoPo from the federales.
*Elmination of sale of seized properties for benefit of the state (ie can't seize a car with drugs found in it and then sell the car, giving the money to the PoPo or government)
*Mandatory implacement of conflict de-escalation technique training for police.

SInce the recent events I'd add:
*special prosecutor or at least 3rd party DA (from nearby jurisdiction) or empanelled judiciary review of police shootings (like a 3 judge board of review) of people and dogs. "Following procedure" is not sufficient defense to trump the state's criminal statutes.
*mandatory body cams THAT CAN'T BE TURNED OFF.

Thats a start. Quick someone pay me $5,000 for a consulting fee.

All sounds fair enough. Apart from the 5 Gs, that is.

**Ahtman**

cincydooley wrote:
I don't think anyone's claiming that point in particular. I haven't been. I think it does support the notion that it's racist.

If the point is the small amount of people involved are racist then perhaps, but if it is meant to say that all the protesters are racist then no.

**whembly**

Ahtman wrote:
Harping on the pamphlet seems a bit like pretending the KKK represents all white people. Finding a few idiots in a group isn't that tough to do, but holding them up as an example of the whole takes extra effort. I suppose what is important is that we not deal with the serious issues but get caught up arguing about the ephemera.

Besides, who doesn't trust The Conservative Treehouse as a source?

The pamphlet was broken up in pages all over twitter... and folks here wanted the whole thing. This is the first one I've seen.

What *I* find hysterical is that in my neck of the woods, it's the religious blacks / old people who does "brunch" here.

Weird...

**Ahtman**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

They're demanding Blacks Only spaces?

I think we need new protestors. These ones are nuts.

This right here is what I am talking about when I say that the pamphlet is over-emphasized. Small groups of idiots shouldn't be treated as representing the whole.

**Albatross**

Sigvatr wrote:
Albatross wrote:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. It often takes the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. It may also hold that members of different races should be treated differently.

Are we going to throw definitions at each other now?

If you do anything that specifically targets someone because of his skin color, then that's racist. Period.

Nonsense. Recognising and acknowledging race is not racist. The assumed superiority of one's racial position relative to another's is racist. Incidentally, you got your definition from Wikipedia. I suggest you read the article.

**whembly**

Ahtman wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

They're demanding Blacks Only spaces?

I think we need new protestors. These ones are nuts.

This right here is what I am talking about when I say that the pamphlet is over-emphasized. Small groups of idiots shouldn't be treated as representing the whole.

Ahtman... how are those "brunch protestors" any different than those to blocks the freeway, or do "die-in" in various places?

**Jihadin**

Yet if the majority are not curbing the stupidity then the perception of whole is they are condoning it

**Frazzled**

And let's face it, the current situation is not going to change until the more comfortable middle class get with the program. And it's not just about stopping cops from killing people; the african-american community needs to fix the problems that cause those deaths too.

Just when I was going to disagree about those establishments being middle clash, you had to pop in something I agree with. Curses! foiled again!

And in that new found spirit of togetherness I just realized.

What they really need to do is have a flash mob at town hall, all doing the thriller dance with "Hands up! Don't Shoot!" that would be awesome.