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True, wargaming models are thicker plastic, but my primary point was that if GW wanted to make it from plastic I'm pretty sure they could have done that even at it's current size (though I'd still expect it to cost $300+).

hmm we seem to have veered off topic slightly.
in What's New Today there are pics form Thanquol book
one shows Ogres with dwarfs vs Skaven
another shows Lizardmen temples taking off
also mr Harden says the Skaven are building a rocket?!
shoot the moon?
maybe some of the rumours we are hearing are true...

Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

Dwarf: ok, you can fight with us but NO eating anyone under 4ft tall!
Ogre: just a nibble?
Dwarf: Nope!

i would be an anxious, nervous dwarf in that alliance
last warhammer book i read was reiksguard in which ogres are noted for their fondness for dwarf flesh

Ogres fit with anyone, it is their entire culture of being adaptive mercenaries, its why i love them and have collected lots of them since well before they even got their own army book.

Dwarves have hired them in the past as Golgfag's story shows, Dwarves like other races other then Brettonians are not against hiring mercenaries if the situation is right.

Historically, Ogres were in both the Orc and Goblin and Empire books. I could see them splitting them up into both books. Empire getting the more mercenary version with their guns and the like and O&G getting the more tribal "might is right" guys mostly with just basic weapons.

The skaven are now allied with chaos, apparently.

From the description for Warhammer: Thanquol.

Warhammer: Thanquol Book 1 is a 232-page book which details the story of the Skaven during the End Times, chronicling the return of the Verminlords, the rise of Grey Seer Thanquol and the alliance of the Children of the Horned Rat with Archaon, the Everchosen.

 Ciciro wrote:
The skaven are now allied with chaos, apparently.

From the description for Warhammer: Thanquol.

Warhammer: Thanquol Book 1 is a 232-page book which details the story of the Skaven during the End Times, chronicling the return of the Verminlords, the rise of Grey Seer Thanquol and the alliance of the Children of the Horned Rat with Archaon, the Everchosen.

this looks true, i agree
iv seen a piece of artwork with verminlord in foreground and Archaon in background on a sizeable horse.
makes sense as they are fundamentally a force of chaos (skaven, i mean)

 Fellwing wrote:

 Ciciro wrote:
The skaven are now allied with chaos, apparently.

From the description for Warhammer: Thanquol.

Warhammer: Thanquol Book 1 is a 232-page book which details the story of the Skaven during the End Times, chronicling the return of the Verminlords, the rise of Grey Seer Thanquol and the alliance of the Children of the Horned Rat with Archaon, the Everchosen.

this looks true, i agree
iv seen a piece of artwork with verminlord in foreground and Archaon in background on a sizeable horse.
makes sense as they are fundamentally a force of chaos (skaven, i mean)

I mean, isn't the Empire teaming up with Nagash? The whole thing is getting more and more inane, to my mind.

But does this mean they updated legions of chaos so it's beastmen, Daemons, Warriors & Skaven?

it seems really stupid but I'm just curious because I may be cleaning out my Legions of Chaos stuff and I'm not sure if I should hold.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
But does this mean they updated legions of chaos so it's beastmen, Daemons, Warriors & Skaven?

it seems really stupid but I'm just curious because I may be cleaning out my Legions of Chaos stuff and I'm not sure if I should hold.

I've been reading more up on it, and the Skaven allying with Chaos is supposedly temporary, as they see Nagash as the biggest threat.

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

I couldn't disagree more. I would love to have a (well fluff backgrounded) reason to use my fatties with some stunties.


Also it would be no problem fitting it in fluff wise ; ogres actively go to other cultures and adapt and assimilate and then return to the tribe. There's even a unit in the game that reflects this ; maneaters. It makes 100% of sense. Even in End times to go from the Ogre mountain tribes to the empire (where half of them were said to be heading) you have to cross lots and lots of dwarf lands. They easily could have met up, been offered gold to fight the rat things (which need entirely too many spices to make palatable!), and voila. You have a perfect reason for dwarves and ogres to fight together.

Also, you're telling me that the dwarves would turn down the help ? I doubt it. Keep a grumbling, crankly, wary eye on the ogres, absolutely. Initiate "Operation: Get Behind The Fatties!", certainly. Refuse ? I doubt it. Not with hordes and hordes and hordes of ratmen at their doors. And rumor has it that Thanquol is joining up with Archaon... if that's the case, the forces of order are fethed.

 Haight wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

I couldn't disagree more. I would love to have a (well fluff backgrounded) reason to use my fatties with some stunties.


Also it would be no problem fitting it in fluff wise ; ogres actively go to other cultures and adapt and assimilate and then return to the tribe. There's even a unit in the game that reflects this ; maneaters. It makes 100% of sense. Even in End times to go from the Ogre mountain tribes to the empire (where half of them were said to be heading) you have to cross lots and lots of dwarf lands. They easily could have met up, been offered gold to fight the rat things (which need entirely too many spices to make palatable!), and voila. You have a perfect reason for dwarves and ogres to fight together.

Also, you're telling me that the dwarves would turn down the help ? I doubt it. Keep a grumbling, crankly, wary eye on the ogres, absolutely. Initiate "Operation: Get Behind The Fatties!", certainly. Refuse ? I doubt it. Not with hordes and hordes and hordes of ratmen at their doors. And rumor has it that Thanquol is joining up with Archaon... if that's the case, the forces of order are fethed.

I'm right there with you on this one. Great synergy between the two armies as well. Ogres get better leadership and more additions to their already-considerable magic defense. Dwarfs get mobility and access to a magic phase, as well as cheap chaff. Harmonically converged cannons and organ guns anyone? Or a dwarf gunline protected by gnoblar trappers?

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 Haight wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

I couldn't disagree more. I would love to have a (well fluff backgrounded) reason to use my fatties with some stunties.


Also it would be no problem fitting it in fluff wise ; ogres actively go to other cultures and adapt and assimilate and then return to the tribe. There's even a unit in the game that reflects this ; maneaters. It makes 100% of sense. Even in End times to go from the Ogre mountain tribes to the empire (where half of them were said to be heading) you have to cross lots and lots of dwarf lands. They easily could have met up, been offered gold to fight the rat things (which need entirely too many spices to make palatable!), and voila. You have a perfect reason for dwarves and ogres to fight together.

Also, you're telling me that the dwarves would turn down the help ? I doubt it. Keep a grumbling, crankly, wary eye on the ogres, absolutely. Initiate "Operation: Get Behind The Fatties!", certainly. Refuse ? I doubt it. Not with hordes and hordes and hordes of ratmen at their doors. And rumor has it that Thanquol is joining up with Archaon... if that's the case, the forces of order are fethed.

I'm right there with you on this one. Great synergy between the two armies as well. Ogres get better leadership and more additions to their already-considerable magic defense. Dwarfs get mobility and access to a magic phase, as well as cheap chaff. Harmonically converged cannons and organ guns anyone? Or a dwarf gunline protected by gnoblar trappers?

Having picked up my copy of Thanquol today, and given it a quick flick through, it seems Dwarves just got magic in the form of The Slayer King having the wind of fire within him

End Times has been a great read as a story, but, with it giving a lot of weight to the rumours of 9th ed, I see myself still playing 8th. As it stands, imo fantasy is everything I've come to expect of the game in 8th ed, to retcon the entire system and hack it down in to some fethed up skirmish game is pointless in my eyes. Ranks and Formations is what I love about the game, and to go ahead and make it into fantasy 40k sounds stupid. I've spent roughly 23 years playing gw games, without a single thought to doing other systems, and for the first time ever I'm finding myself actually looking around as I cannot believe what I'm hearing.

Yeah sure, its just rumours atm, though in some rumours I've heard a lot of staff at GW-HQ are kicking off over this...

Oh, as for Lizardmen I'm told... (yet to read Thanquol to verify, but be warned possible spoilers)



All in all I'm disappointed in GW, as to trash their flagship game thats been the same now for 35+ years is foolish... almost as foolish as flooding 40k with muhreens

Thats my two cents anyways

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

Not quite. The picture only tells a bit of the story, and its an isolated incident.

The Ogres, a contingent led by Golgfag, are hired by Belegar for great sums of money and food, but at a crucial pount in a major battle, turn on the Dwarves at the behest of Skarsnik, then head off to where ever, possibly follow Skarsnik. . The Dwarves pictured with the Ogres don't survive, so no alliance between Dwarf and Ogre.

If anything, it furthers the idea that Ogres will roll into Orc and Goblins.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

Not quite. The picture only tells a bit of the story, and its an isolated incident.

The Ogres, a contingent led by Golgfag, are hired by Belegar for great sums of money and food, but at a crucial pount in a major battle, turn on the Dwarves at the behest of Skarsnik, then head off to where ever, possibly follow Skarsnik. . The Dwarves pictured with the Ogres don't survive, so no alliance between Dwarf and Ogre.

If anything, it furthers the idea that Ogres will roll into Orc and Goblins.

Thanks for clearing that up. It was just speculation based on the picture (hence "might"). You're right that it now seems they will fold under Greenskins instead.

 Bottle wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

Not quite. The picture only tells a bit of the story, and its an isolated incident.

The Ogres, a contingent led by Golgfag, are hired by Belegar for great sums of money and food, but at a crucial pount in a major battle, turn on the Dwarves at the behest of Skarsnik, then head off to where ever, possibly follow Skarsnik. . The Dwarves pictured with the Ogres don't survive, so no alliance between Dwarf and Ogre.

If anything, it furthers the idea that Ogres will roll into Orc and Goblins.

Thanks for clearing that up. It was just speculation based on the picture (hence "might"). You're right that it now seems they will fold under Greenskins instead.

To be honest I would have put ogres with orcs and Goblins at first in fact I think I did at start of this thread? I'm surprised to not be seeing more thanquol spoilers about

 Fellwing wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

Not quite. The picture only tells a bit of the story, and its an isolated incident.

The Ogres, a contingent led by Golgfag, are hired by Belegar for great sums of money and food, but at a crucial pount in a major battle, turn on the Dwarves at the behest of Skarsnik, then head off to where ever, possibly follow Skarsnik. . The Dwarves pictured with the Ogres don't survive, so no alliance between Dwarf and Ogre.

If anything, it furthers the idea that Ogres will roll into Orc and Goblins.

Thanks for clearing that up. It was just speculation based on the picture (hence "might"). You're right that it now seems they will fold under Greenskins instead.

To be honest I would have put ogres with orcs and Goblins at first in fact I think I did at start of this thread? I'm surprised to not be seeing more thanquol spoilers about

Ogres with Orcs and Gobliins is about as boring, generic, and bland as i could possibly imagine.

Cliche as well.

If their goal is to make defensible IP, rolling Ogres into OnG isn't the smartest way of going about it. Then again neither is squatting probably thier most unique fantasy IP army either.


Disappointing, to say the least that there wont' be any Dwarf Ogre alliance.

 Haight wrote:

 Fellwing wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Yep looks like Dwarves and Ogres might be allied.

An incredibly aesthetically unpleasing combination

Not quite. The picture only tells a bit of the story, and its an isolated incident.

The Ogres, a contingent led by Golgfag, are hired by Belegar for great sums of money and food, but at a crucial pount in a major battle, turn on the Dwarves at the behest of Skarsnik, then head off to where ever, possibly follow Skarsnik. . The Dwarves pictured with the Ogres don't survive, so no alliance between Dwarf and Ogre.

If anything, it furthers the idea that Ogres will roll into Orc and Goblins.

Thanks for clearing that up. It was just speculation based on the picture (hence "might"). You're right that it now seems they will fold under Greenskins instead.

To be honest I would have put ogres with orcs and Goblins at first in fact I think I did at start of this thread? I'm surprised to not be seeing more thanquol spoilers about

Ogres with Orcs and Gobliins is about as boring, generic, and bland as i could possibly imagine.

Cliche as well.

If their goal is to make defensible IP, rolling Ogres into OnG isn't the smartest way of going about it. Then again neither is squatting probably thier most unique fantasy IP army either.


Disappointing, to say the least that there wont' be any Dwarf Ogre alliance.

Yep, seems that cutting production costs is more important than defending the IP in the context of fantasy. So maybe the only reason Lizardmen get squatted is because they can't be neatly rolled into a book with any of the other armies...

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
as to trash their flagship game

The thing is, fantasy is no longer their flagship game. 40k is. Every GW store carries more 40k than fantasy, 40k gets more attention & more licensing deals. Fantasy may be 40ks older brother but 40k is definitely the golden child.

Hasn't 40k been the big one for years, too? It seemed a lot bigger when I first got interested in 40k, and that was... over a decade ago, wow.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
as to trash their flagship game

The thing is, fantasy is no longer their flagship game. 40k is. Every GW store carries more 40k than fantasy, 40k gets more attention & more licensing deals. Fantasy may be 40ks older brother but 40k is definitely the golden child.

I meant it as in their first product. The one that got them where they are today. Instead they insist upon beating it over the head into a bloody pulp

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
as to trash their flagship game

The thing is, fantasy is no longer their flagship game. 40k is. Every GW store carries more 40k than fantasy, 40k gets more attention & more licensing deals. Fantasy may be 40ks older brother but 40k is definitely the golden child.

I meant it as in their first product. The one that got them where they are today. Instead they insist upon beating it over the head into a bloody pulp

I'm not sure that they are, and if you can play pre end times in 9th, like you have 30k, then it could be a good move, allowing people to play pre during and post end times.
Also, it has been clear for a long time that 40k is the flagship, even when I bought my first box back in '06. (I know it says I started war gaming in 2012, but I'd had models for a long time)

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
as to trash their flagship game

The thing is, fantasy is no longer their flagship game. 40k is. Every GW store carries more 40k than fantasy, 40k gets more attention & more licensing deals. Fantasy may be 40ks older brother but 40k is definitely the golden child.

I meant it as in their first product. The one that got them where they are today. Instead they insist upon beating it over the head into a bloody pulp

I'm not sure that they are, and if you can play pre end times in 9th, like you have 30k, then it could be a good move, allowing people to play pre during and post end times.
Also, it has been clear for a long time that 40k is the flagship, even when I bought my first box back in '06. (I know it says I started war gaming in 2012, but I'd had models for a long time)

True. Imagine how much more choice and variety we could have for our games with multiple settings. Hypothetically speaking, just because 9th is set after the end times supposedly them that doesn't mean to say you can't use the rules to fight any game with any armies. People need to stop crying about this. Also if we do see skirmish rules I could see it as an option, rather than a concept to be forced upon us.
maybe warhammer as we know it will be more like what escalation is to 40k?

Imagine how much more variety we could have in our games if people were willing to roll back to other editions at will! It would be almost like Time Travel, except you'd do it with books and models you already own, at no further expense to yourself!

Anvildude wrote:
Imagine how much more variety we could have in our games if people were willing to roll back to other editions at will! It would be almost like Time Travel, except you'd do it with books and models you already own, at no further expense to yourself!

Bah! Then you're not participating in the HHHobby!

Anvildude wrote:
Imagine how much more variety we could have in our games if people were willing to roll back to other editions at will! It would be almost like Time Travel, except you'd do it with books and models you already own, at no further expense to yourself!

I've found it's easy to keep playing older editions for about 1 or so years after a new edition comes out. After that you have some people leave the group, new people join the group who don't know or own the old books, people want to start a new army or expand their army and would prefer to do it according to the new rules instead of the old rules, people simply get bored and want to move on, etc.

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

Having picked up my copy of Thanquol today, and given it a quick flick through, it seems Dwarves just got magic in the form of The Slayer King having the wind of fire within him

End Times has been a great read as a story, but, with it giving a lot of weight to the rumours of 9th ed, I see myself still playing 8th. As it stands, imo fantasy is everything I've come to expect of the game in 8th ed, to retcon the entire system and hack it down in to some fethed up skirmish game is pointless in my eyes. Ranks and Formations is what I love about the game, and to go ahead and make it into fantasy 40k sounds stupid. I've spent roughly 23 years playing gw games, without a single thought to doing other systems, and for the first time ever I'm finding myself actually looking around as I cannot believe what I'm hearing.

Yeah sure, its just rumours atm, though in some rumours I've heard a lot of staff at GW-HQ are kicking off over this...

Oh, as for Lizardmen I'm told... (yet to read Thanquol to verify, but be warned possible spoilers)

Spoiler:

They activated their temples with a special spawning of skink, which turned them into vessels capable of travel elsewhere, and during their exodus the slann all perished being turned into Kroak like slann.

All in all I'm disappointed in GW, as to trash their flagship game thats been the same now for 35+ years is foolish... almost as foolish as flooding 40k with muhreens

Thats my two cents anyways

There is zero-chance that GW scraps a game with so much accumulated good will in exchange for an untested and unproven game that nobody has ever seen before.

Zero.

Especially after they've poured so much love into it for the End Times.

Perhaps they'll roll out a skirmish game that is meant to co-exist with mass-battle 8th edition, or act as a gateway into the world of large armies. But scrapping the core concept of WHFB altogether is insane. No way will it happen, just like no way will they squat a successful and unique faction like Lizardmen. Bretonnia maybe, because they're old and kind of generic. Tomb Kings maybe, because they're unpopular and much of their range is still finecast or needs updating (the entire core, basically). But not Lizardmen.

I tend to think the rumours of it becoming a skirmish game are pretty far fetched.

My main worry is (as always) the rules are going to suck because GW haven't written a decent rule system in many years and secondly that compressing the army books in to 6 books we're going to blur the lines between armies. I don't really mind the idea of having all armies summed up in 6 books or frankly even 1 book would be fine, as long as they remain unique armies, which I think is what we're going to lose.

I prefer the idea of encouraging people to collect a single army rather than just mashing together the best options from a faction book.

At this point I think there's little chance of me being happy with the result as my WHFB armies are Bretonnians, Lizardmen and Wood Elves. It seems the WE are just going to be swallowed by "Elves", Bretonnia swallowed by "Human" and it seems like Lizardmen are in for a big change, squatted? Losing the Slann? Being a stupid bubble army? Not sure at this point... but I've learned from experience to expect the worst from GW.

As long as they don't take away the option to just play one of the armies in the combined armies idea if a player wishes then i don't see the problem, sure as always players obsessed with a win percentage will just take all the best units from each but i would rather the options exist for others like myself who would build well thought theme armies from the models they like, then punish us because others can't play nice.