Shooting at Satirical magazine in France

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**dogma**

whembly wrote:
Hey… those golf balls ain’t gonna hit themselves, ya know.

Seriously, I can be convinced that Obama/Biden may be too busy, but we couldn't send anyone there? Seems very odd.

Hilariously enough whether or not a senior official was present will likely matter more to the American people, especially those who lean Republican, than the French people.

**Grey Templar**

nels1031 wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
I seriously doubt it was Catholic motivated. Not with this timing.

Second time in this thread that my sarcasm wasn't detected. Is it too subtle?

Maybe

The Internet gives a -2D6 to detect sarcasm after all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Torga_DW wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Apparently America "snubbed" the Paris memorial/rally thing by not sending a senior representative like Obama, Biden etc. Its a Daily Mail story so take with a bucket of salt if you must, but considering that this is effectively France's 9/11 (as close as they've gotten anyway), is not not poor form for Obama not to attend?

Pfft, as horrible as this is, its not even close to 9/11.

You can't compare an attack on a satirical newspaper and ensuing manhunt, which only left 20 people dead including the attackers, with an attack that completely destroys 2 iconic buildings, damaged our central military command structure, attempted to damage/destroy the White House, and left over 5000 dead.

Thats the interesting thing about terror attacks, they're not solely designed to inflict casualties and collateral damage. Not saying 9/11 wasn't bad, just that there's psychology involved and a 'lesser' target can do more damage if it's the 'right' target in this context. Will need time to see how this plays out amongst the civilian population.

That is true. I imagine Europe might be a little more susceptible to the psychological effect, especially since this has been so hyped up.

**Disciple of Fate**

Grey Templar wrote:
Torga_DW wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Apparently America "snubbed" the Paris memorial/rally thing by not sending a senior representative like Obama, Biden etc. Its a Daily Mail story so take with a bucket of salt if you must, but considering that this is effectively France's 9/11 (as close as they've gotten anyway), is not not poor form for Obama not to attend?

Pfft, as horrible as this is, its not even close to 9/11.

You can't compare an attack on a satirical newspaper and ensuing manhunt, which only left 20 people dead including the attackers, with an attack that completely destroys 2 iconic buildings, damaged our central military command structure, attempted to damage/destroy the White House, and left over 5000 dead.

Thats the interesting thing about terror attacks, they're not solely designed to inflict casualties and collateral damage. Not saying 9/11 wasn't bad, just that there's psychology involved and a 'lesser' target can do more damage if it's the 'right' target in this context. Will need time to see how this plays out amongst the civilian population.

That is true. I imagine Europe might be a little more susceptible to the psychological effect, especially since this has been so hyped up.

I think most Europeans dont directly compare this to 9/11 for reasons already mentioned. What I noticed from talking to friends and family the comparison is mainly for the feelings these events brought up, the surreal feeling of this happening and lacking information on what was happening. Its just the shock of the event, not necessarily the severity of the event, which is on a whole different level to 9/11. I think the only event that just barely approaches the comparison were the bombings in Madrid over 10 years ago, which strangely enough did not have such a heavy emotional weight compared to 9/11 or now France.

Yesterday's rally in Paris was impressive. I cant speak for the French users but I feel the absence of a senior representative was not so bad, as most know that the US will offer its support in this, even though they might not show it. News surrounding the rally has been less than uplifting, here is an article on it from the BBC.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30769192

France divided despite uplifting rallies

The BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says that while the rally in the city by more than a million people reflects the determination of its inhabitants to bounce back from the horror of the recent attacks, the deep divisions of French society cannot be glossed over.

The urge to demonstrate is the urge for mutual reassurance.

When terrible things happen, first we rush for shelter. Then we re-emerge to show each other that we are all still alive.

It is probably what cavemen did when the sabre-toothed tigers passed by.

This week in Paris, many people felt the instinct to hasten home. Murder stalked the streets.

At one point on Thursday we heard that the Kouachi brothers were driving back to town. There were police marksmen at the city gates.

Something primal said: Stay with your loved ones.

But then it was over. And now the urge is to come back onto the streets and to reclaim the land.

That is what it has felt like through the extraordinary scenes of Sunday.

People have made the comparison with the Liberation demonstrations in 1944, and it is apt.

It is apt not just in terms of numbers, but also in how at that moment too French men and women were putting down a marker: France is ours.

But people demonstrate also because they are afraid.

People demonstrate for causes that they feel are under threat. Demonstrating reveals our insecurity.

We demonstrate because we want the hope that comes from knowing there are others who feel as we do.

In France, national unity was the theme of Sunday's monster rally.

But by the logic of demonstrations, national unity is therefore not nearly as secure as the outpouring of mass emotion would tend to suggest.

'Je suis Kouachi'
If you want a sobering counterblast to the dominant mood, have a look at the "Je ne suis pas Charlie" Facebook page. It has received more than 21,000 likes in the last few days.

The mainly Muslim French people who have given a thumbs-up to the page are not supporters of violence. The vast majority have no truck with the Kouachis and Coulibaly.

But they also make clear they will not take part in a national movement that backs people who insulted the Prophet Muhammad.

Over and again they express their anger at what they see as double standards:

Why so much fuss over 17 dead when thousands have died in Gaza and Syria?

Why is it all right for Charlie Hebdo to mock Islam when the controversial comic Dieudonne M'bala M'bala is prosecuted for mocking Jews? Why is one defined as "inciting hatred" and not the other?

Then there are the schools in the high-immigration banlieues where the minute's silence on Thursday in memory of the Charlie Hebdo victims was interrupted by pupils or not observed at all.

France-Info - the national news radio station that normally plays down dissent in the banlieues - ran an extensive report on it, with quotes from distressed teachers.

And if you really want to be shocked, there is a "Je suis Kouachi" hashtag which was briefly trending on Twitter on Saturday.

All of which only goes to prove that there are many French men and women who feel their primary attachment is to Islam, not to the Enlightenment values of post-18th Century Europe.

They feel a constant sense of humiliation, and where they can, they strike back. Normally in petty acts of insubordination. But sometimes in terror.

So France is not united, and the danger is real.

But that is why demonstrations matter. People take part because they work. Seeing such vast numbers of people - of all faiths and backgrounds - united behind a single idea was indeed a moving and uplifting experience.

At the end of a horrid week, morale is back. For a time at least, we are reassured.

Especially the second part makes me angry, because we have some of the same problems in the Netherlands where teachers no longer feel comfortable to discuss the Holocaust in inner-city high schools due to such vocal student minorities. The comparisons they make are also useless, as we care even less (media wise) about people dying in Africa, doesnt make current events any less valid. Furthermore on Dieudonne mocking Jews, there is a difference in what he and Charlie did to 'mock' these groups.

**Frazzled**

whembly wrote:
Hey… those golf balls ain’t gonna hit themselves, ya know.

Seriously, I can be convinced that Obama/Biden may be too busy, but we couldn't send anyone there? Seems very odd.

You don't send Biden. He'd rant about shooting a shotgun off the balcony and creeping out da wimminz.

**PhantomViper**

Disciple of Fate wrote:

All of which only goes to prove that there are many French men and women who feel their primary attachment is to Islam, not to the Enlightenment values of post-18th Century Europe.

They feel a constant sense of humiliation, and where they can, they strike back. Normally in petty acts of insubordination. But sometimes in terror.

So France is not united, and the danger is real.

But that is why demonstrations matter. People take part because they work. Seeing such vast numbers of people - of all faiths and backgrounds - united behind a single idea was indeed a moving and uplifting experience.

At the end of a horrid week, morale is back. For a time at least, we are reassured.

Meanwhile in the same weekend that all of those people were sharing that "amazing", "moving" and "uplifting" experience in the streets of Paris (yes, I'm being sarcastic, those demonstrations in Paris are the worst kind of useless PC trite), a few more supporters of the "Religion of Peace" in Nigeria used two 10 year old girls as suicide bombers in two separate attacks on civilian markets...

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

PhantomViper wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:

All of which only goes to prove that there are many French men and women who feel their primary attachment is to Islam, not to the Enlightenment values of post-18th Century Europe.

They feel a constant sense of humiliation, and where they can, they strike back. Normally in petty acts of insubordination. But sometimes in terror.

So France is not united, and the danger is real.

But that is why demonstrations matter. People take part because they work. Seeing such vast numbers of people - of all faiths and backgrounds - united behind a single idea was indeed a moving and uplifting experience.

At the end of a horrid week, morale is back. For a time at least, we are reassured.

Meanwhile in the same weekend that all of those people were sharing that "amazing", "moving" and "uplifting" experience in the streets of Paris (yes, I'm being sarcastic, those demonstrations in Paris are the worst kind of useless PC trite), a few more supporters of the "Religion of Peace" in Nigeria used two 10 year old girls as suicide bombers in two separate attacks on civilian markets...

Didn't you get the memo? They're not Muslims.

**whembly**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
Disciple of Fate wrote:

All of which only goes to prove that there are many French men and women who feel their primary attachment is to Islam, not to the Enlightenment values of post-18th Century Europe.

They feel a constant sense of humiliation, and where they can, they strike back. Normally in petty acts of insubordination. But sometimes in terror.

So France is not united, and the danger is real.

But that is why demonstrations matter. People take part because they work. Seeing such vast numbers of people - of all faiths and backgrounds - united behind a single idea was indeed a moving and uplifting experience.

At the end of a horrid week, morale is back. For a time at least, we are reassured.

Meanwhile in the same weekend that all of those people were sharing that "amazing", "moving" and "uplifting" experience in the streets of Paris (yes, I'm being sarcastic, those demonstrations in Paris are the worst kind of useless PC trite), a few more supporters of the "Religion of Peace" in Nigeria used two 10 year old girls as suicide bombers in two separate attacks on civilian markets...

Didn't you get the memo? They're not Muslims.

That must to new to them....

**Grey Templar**

So apparently the female suspect is in Syria and has been for a while.

Wonder how long until she's made into a sex slave and regrets her involvement.

**Da Boss**

On the 9/11 comparisons, I don't think that is appropriate at all. Europe has had many terrorist attacks, none on that scale. I think we might be more accepting of small scale terrorist activity to an extent - at least the British are very used to it. But we've not had something that big happen outside of wartime. It's a singular event.

This has pissed people off and in the political context it is a huge deal, but I don't think people are traumatised or upset by it, except perhaps those in France directly effected. The march was great though, really lifted my mood.

**Dreadclaw69**

Da Boss wrote:
On the 9/11 comparisons, I don't think that is appropriate at all. Europe has had many terrorist attacks, none on that scale. I think we might be more accepting of small scale terrorist activity to an extent - at least the British are very used to it. But we've not had something that big happen outside of wartime. It's a singular event.

7/7 begs to differ

**Da Boss**

Care to elaborate on that? I don't think 7/7 was on the same scale as 9/11.

**Frazzled**

Da Boss wrote:
Care to elaborate on that? I don't think 7/7 was on the same scale as 9/11.

52 victims per wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

Madrid bombings were multiples higher yet. 191 dead with 2050 injuries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

**djones520**

In terms of true impact, there will probably never be something to the scale of 9/11 (we hope...).

I don't say that to take away from other large terrorist attacks. None of the attacks referenced though, had or will have, the impacts that 9/11 did.

**KalashnikovMarine**

ITT we have a dick measuring contest about national tragedies and who has a license to think terrorists suck more.

**Da Boss**

Dude, we're not trying to have a dick measuring contest. Chill out. We can compare the attacks without it being a nationalist thing.

**Frazzled**

I'm not. I was just bringing some facts to help with a query.

One is too many and I empathize with our most ancient ally.
But if you do a search. The level of bombings and killing in the last six months is insane.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
ITT we have a dick measuring contest about national tragedies and who has a license to think terrorists suck more.

Pakistan pwns all of Europe and the U.S.A. combined, no

?
Is Islam even compatible with Pakistan

?

**nels1031**

dogma wrote:
whembly wrote:
Hey… those golf balls ain’t gonna hit themselves, ya know.

Seriously, I can be convinced that Obama/Biden may be too busy, but we couldn't send anyone there? Seems very odd.

Hilariously enough whether or not a senior official was present will likely matter more to the American people, especially those who lean Republican, than the French people.

It mattered enough that the administration admitted its mistake and should have sent some one higher up the diplomatic food chain.

**Jihadin**

Word is that there are six cell members still RUNNING AROUND LOOSE.

Edit

Nice size terrorist cell eh.

**whembly**

Jihadin wrote:
Word is that there are six cell members still RUNNING AROUND LOOSE.

Edit

Nice size terrorist cell eh.

Erm... how would they know?

Source?

**Orlanth**

whembly wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Word is that there are six cell members still RUNNING AROUND LOOSE.

Edit

Nice size terrorist cell eh.

Erm... how would they know?

Source?

Huh.

First you expect Jihadin to know the inner working of the French intelligence services, and then that he would spill the relevant documentation on Dakka Dakka.

Try some Google Fu, it only takes a second:

http://news.sky.com/story/1406696/french-police-six-terrorists-still-at-large

**whembly**

Orlanth wrote:
whembly wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Word is that there are six cell members still RUNNING AROUND LOOSE.

Edit

Nice size terrorist cell eh.

Erm... how would they know?

Source?

Huh.

First you expect Jihadin to know the inner working of the French intelligence services, and then that he would spill the relevant documentation on Dakka Dakka.

Try some Google Fu, it only takes a second:

http://news.sky.com/story/1406696/french-police-six-terrorists-still-at-large

Thanks... my "fu" is is tired... beside, on conference call from hell. Only haz so much neurons to use at one time.

**Dreadclaw69**

Da Boss wrote:
Care to elaborate on that? I don't think 7/7 was on the same scale as 9/11.

My apologies for my mis-edit. My post should have been in relation to your point that "we might be more accepting of small scale terrorist activity to an extent - at least the British are very used to it."

**BaronIveagh**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
ITT we have a dick measuring contest about national tragedies and who has a license to think terrorists suck more.

Based on numbers, India would win with Palestine a close second. Israel comes in a hot third, Ireland fourth, and the US around 10th. While 9/11 was big, there hasn't been the sort of continuous attacks that characterize the others.

**Jihadin**

Like the saying goes.
What you think is six inches does not mean its six inches

**Bullockist**

Indeed Jihadin, but running round with a 9/11" is impressive.

**BaronIveagh**

Bullockist wrote:
Indeed Jihadin, but running round with a 9/11" is impressive.

Let's say your 9/11" represents the normal amount of terrorism in the US. Based on this morning's sample in the Middle East, it would be a 9/11... thirty-five feet long, weighing approximately six hundred pounds.

**Orlanth**

thats some twinkie

**Jihadin**

Involving New York...again

**SlaveToDorkness**

Cleric holds funeral for "heroes" in Pakistan

stay classy, Pakistan!