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changemod wrote:
I'm surprised at the level of Space Wolf hate honestly, given that they're the closest fitting Marine supplement to the tone the setting works best at.

Grimdark alone is dull. There must be equal and opposite ammounts of over the top silliness such as Wolf-themed Space Vikings or the entire premise falls apart.

Would you like Orks to be removed too whilst we're at it?

Orks are silly-awesome. Spess Wulves are silly-stupid.

 ImAGeek wrote:

changemod wrote:
I'm surprised at the level of Space Wolf hate honestly, given that they're the closest fitting Marine supplement to the tone the setting works best at.

Grimdark alone is dull. There must be equal and opposite ammounts of over the top silliness such as Wolf-themed Space Vikings or the entire premise falls apart.

Would you like Orks to be removed too whilst we're at it?

Yeah but Space Wolves recently have just been silly, without the grim dark. It's not a balance anymore.

Space Wolves are silly mixed with awesome, much like most fantasy portrayals of Vikings only turned up to eleven.

The balance comes when they meet factions taking themselves far too seriously Grimdark such as the Grey Knights wiping out the survivors of Armageddon, then crusade against them until they stop doing that.

Tau would be kicked out of the game by me. Don't need an army of blue fishlike men.

Someone explain to me why we have four inquisition armies, four space marine armies, and now two imperial guard?
GW, GW, GW...

 Jollydevil wrote:
Someone explain to me why we have four inquisition armies, four space marine armies, and now two imperial guard?
GW, GW, GW...

We have 4 inquisition armies?

 Jollydevil wrote:
Someone explain to me why we have four inquisition armies, four space marine armies, and now two imperial guard?
GW, GW, GW...

Because they sell, and if they didn't they wouldn't exist.

Facts are facts, if an army didn't sell they wouldn't print it. GW is a business. They don't care about which armies we like more or less, as long as the models sell.

 Jollydevil wrote:
Someone explain to me why we have four inquisition armies, four space marine armies, and now two imperial guard?
GW, GW, GW...

Two Imperial Guard? Actually closer to five, with Krieg siege, Elysians, and D99.

@Desubot

I think he means Codex: Dread Knights, Codex: Girl Space Marines, Codex: No one expects the Imperial Inquisition and Codex: Stormus Troopericus. Only one of those in a Inquisition Codex.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
@Desubot

I think he means Codex: Dread Knights, Codex: Girl Space Marines, Codex: No one expects the Imperial Inquisition and Codex: Stormus Troopericus. Only one of those in a Inquisition Codex.

Im just counting what theyve got on the GW site (AKA what is separated into its own subsection). Counting those, its Grey Kanigits, Sorority Sisters, Assinorum, and yes, the Inquisition


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:
Someone explain to me why we have four inquisition armies, four space marine armies, and now two imperial guard?
GW, GW, GW...

Two Imperial Guard? Actually closer to five, with Krieg siege, Elysians, and D99.

Well, if we count that way, there are a thousand kinds of guard. Can we even call them Guard anymore?

morgoth wrote:
The problem is that to remove Space Marines, you'd need to remove at least 5 codexes (one of them is space marines for girls).

Well, that is not true. I mean, certainly the Blood Angels are as much designed for gay men as they are for straight women. Do not forget that Batman Forever proved to the world how homoerotic nipple armor can be!

Assassins aren't an army, they've just been split out so anyone can use them.

Primarily Imperial obviously, though as they all Infiltrate it's not hard to stick them 12 inches from your army if you want to convert an equivalent operative for your army.

Blood Angles Dark Angels. They could easily be merged with C:SM.

 Archonate wrote:
Orks. Immediate answer.
They simply would not and could not function on any level that would make them even remotely threatening in the 40k universe... Yet they magically are. No explanation.
They're too cartoony. They don't fit atmosphere of the game.
I can't stand how they always magically happen to have whatever unconstrained abilities needed to do whatever they want from the moment they're born, yet still be halfwits.

The explanations justifying all of the above are always just as shallow as the fluff itself.

I think you're mistaking "simplistic/crude" for "halfwits". You're also underestimating the amount of "magically happen to have" that occurs in every other race

Astra Militarum.

Replace them with a totally different army called Imperial Guard.

 Wulfmar wrote:
Imperial Guard - merge with Astra Militarum

LLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really? Really? Is this guy for real?

Id say get rid of militarum tempesus (and Im a guard player). They dont need their own army. They are just fine as being unit options within the guard.

I'd also condence all the marines into one bigger book with ech having a different chapter (pun intended) that describes them and gives any additional units they might have followed by a generic list that the chapter differences are than added to.

What to add?..... I'd say no armies at all. Spend the time instead working on fine tuning the rules for balance and getting rid of exploits.

changemod wrote:
Assassins aren't an army, they've just been split out so anyone can use them.

If only that were true. AFAIK their faction means they can only be transported by an IoM vehicle. feth dat.

Space Marines. It'll give the other SM codexes more character and force people to play something else. Tired of seeing SMs on the table in different colours pretending to be something different from the next.

Don't care if Xenos forces have bad fluff or rep in other peoples views, 40k to me is about ott aliens and crazy out of the ordinary stuff. Space Marines are as bland as a bread sandwich.

I wouldn't get rid of any armies, but I would merge a few.

You'd have,

Codex Space Marines
-Blood Angel supplement
-Imperial Fist supplement
-Black Templar Supplement

Codex Space Wolves(only regular marines different enough to warrant separation)

Codex Grey Knights(because they're distinct from the Inquisition)

Codex Inquisition(all inquisition units, ISTs, Inquisitors, Deathwatch squads and characters)
-Sisters of Battle supplement(same as current, just with inquisition options as well because its the same codex, just a supplement)

Codex Tau
-Farsight Supplement

Codex Astra Militarum
-Catachan supplement
-Armored Company supplement
-Air Cav supplement
-Scion Tempestus supplement

Codex Tyranids
-various Hive Fleet supplements
-Genestealer supplements

Codex Orks
-various supplements

Codex Imperial Knights

Codex Eldar
-various Craftworld supplements
-Exodite supplement

Codex Dark Eldar
-various supplements

Supplements would not be codex sized or priced. They would be soft back mini-books.

changemod wrote:
I'm surprised at the level of Space Wolf hate honestly, given that they're the closest fitting Marine supplement to the tone the setting works best at.

Grimdark alone is dull. There must be equal and opposite ammounts of over the top silliness such as Wolf-themed Space Vikings or the entire premise falls apart.

Would you like Orks to be removed too whilst we're at it?

Orks being silly works. The problem with the Space Wolves is not simply that they're silly, it's that their sillyness is implemented in an atrocious manner that comes off more as a little kid running away with his bad internet fanfic than anything else, and at the same time half their fluff demands that they be taken seriously, that the sillyness is just a cunning ruse, but at the same time they're still totally silly according to themselves.

It's the combination of abysmal execution, contradictory nature, and cognitive dissonance with the faction that just doesn't work.

I wouldnt call the wolves silly. I'd say more outrageously anachronistic.
One of those deals where everyone (in the fluff) just shakes their head and wonders but are kinda too afraid to say anything because the wolves are so bad ass.

I like the variety that armies like orks and wolves and yes, even tau add as it adds flavor and internal politics within the factions and draws in a wider variety of players.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Removing an army would be a jerk move.

I agree.

I would not remove any armies, but I wouldn't mind if a few were changed or merged.

Imperium:

Astra Militarum and Militarum Tempestus as one dex, with the ability to field either side alone or mixed. Restrictions akin to the Inquisition.

Space Marines: Blood Angels, Dark Angels merged in. Restrictions akin to the Inquisition.

New Mechanicus Codex, including Imperial Knights.
.
Inquisition, Assassins, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle merged, with the ability to take them alone or merged. Fill out more of the inquisition (i.e. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Deathwatch, etc.), and SoB at the same time. Put restrictions on how a list can be made, to prevent lists like the following: Grey Knight Captain leading an army of Sisters of Battle, Sister Superior leading an Inquisitorial Army, etc.


Chaos:

Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons merged. Restrictions akin to the Inquisition.


Xenos:

Tau Auxiliaries gaining a codex, which can also be used by other races.

Orks: The return of Zogwart and Wazdakka.
- Speed Freaks Supplement
- Mek/Weirdboy/Painboy Mob Supplement


In merged books, you will have the ability to run the lists you can currently, but also new lists.

Windchild wrote:
Inquisition, Assassins, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle merged, with the ability to take them alone or merged. Fill out more of the inquisition (i.e. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Deathwatch, etc.), and SoB at the same time. Put restrictions on how a list can be made, to prevent lists like the following: Grey Knight Captain leading an army of Sisters of Battle, Sister Superior leading an Inquisitorial Army, etc.

I see that a lot, but why Sisters with the Inquisition?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

I see that a lot, but why Sisters with the Inquisition?

They're the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus.

Personally, I think a proper Inquisition book could support universal Inq units, plus the chambers militant; Sisters, GK, and DW.

Remove an army? Never. That's being a scumbag.

Merge a few codices? Yes, that's not a bad idea at all.

morgoth wrote:

changemod wrote:
Assassins aren't an army, they've just been split out so anyone can use them.

If only that were true. AFAIK their faction means they can only be transported by an IoM vehicle. feth dat.

You'd spend a vehicle on moving a lone model?

For the most part they're fine: Only the Culexus has any real mobility issue getting where he needs to be and even he Infiltrates.

Marines merged. Supercodex also contains-
- a "fast" detachment (Dark Angels, Whitescars, Raven Guard) without heavy tanks, but with many fast units and unlocking interceptors (Stormtalon, Nephilim etc) and Terminator Rhinos
- a "siege" detachment (for Imperial Fists, Salamanders and Sisters of Battle) with little fast attack but unlocking Repressors, Centurions (which Penitent thingies are now) and allowing artillery squadrons (Exorcists are now Whirlwinds)
- (for Space Wolves, Blood Angels,and Grey Knights) "close quarters" detachment with more melee-equiped troops, hunting beasts and Sanguinary Guard. Bike riders instead ride larger hunting beasts.

Astra something/Tempestus/Knights merged

Eldar/Dark Eldar merged

Chaos forces gone, Chaos Marines wiped out in Horus Heresey, models can be used as regular Marines though. A very overused thing in fiction these days seems to be "use religious terms/imagery, and hope people will be too distracted to noticethe poor writing quality". Apparently 40K is intended as satire, so maybe that amateurish trick is intentional, but... modern fiction is too oversaturated with it and its just annoying.

Imperial Knights don't need to be a codex and should be merged in with something else. And seeing less of them in the game is a bonus I'm not against. But, Militarum Tempestus is up there too. Should be rolled back in to the Guard codex as a seperate detachment possibility. Kinda like Archangels and Haemonculus Covens if those were in the same book as their codex... Again, a whole other book is just overkill.

Imperial Knights. They should just be a Lord of War option.

Worth noting that the Knight Codex does not, in fact, have two units in it.

It has one unit with a 5 point weapon upgrade that changes it's name.