Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 14:28:26
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Bryan Ansell
|
Bad sportsmanship or just a team in a golden run of form?
The team had already won games by heavy margins.
Was the opposition just piss poor? Edit: ha1 last place last season so........ Go Bloomington special snowflakes?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/basketball/30862474
http://www.sbsun.com/sports/20150108/arroyo-valley-girls-basketball-blows-out-bloomington-161-2-sportsmanship-questioned
Bloomington High girls basketball had already lost one game this season by 91 points and Arroyo Valley had already won games by 73, 81, 74 and 98 points.
But when the two teams met on Monday at Arroyo Valley in a nonleague game, Arroyo Valley won by a score that some would say crosses the line of good sportsmanship: 161-2.
According to the most recent CIF-SS record book, it is the second-most points scored in a girls basketball game in history, trailing only the Cheryl Miller-led Riverside Poly squad that defeated Riverside Norte Vista 179-15 on Jan. 26, 1982. Miller scored 105 points in the victory.
“People shouldn’t feel sorry for my team. They should feel sorry for his team, which isn’t learning the game the right way,” Bloomington coach Dale Chung said.
Chung said that Arroyo Valley (14-1) played a full-court press for the entire first half and led 104-1 at halftime.
“We only got the ball past halfcourt maybe four or five times in the first half,” Chung said.
Although Arroyo Valley coach Michael Anderson told Chung before the game he was going to full-court press for the first three quarters, Arroyo Valley switched to a half-court trap to start the second half. Chung said Arroyo Valley changed from that in the fourth quarter.
The fourth quarter was played with a running clock. Anderson said he tried to implement a running clock in the third quarter, but officials declined. Anderson said in the second half he also instructed his team not to take a shot until seven seconds remained on the shot clock.
“I didn’t play any starters in the second half,” said Anderson, who guided Rialto to the Division II state finals in 2011 before coming to Arroyo Valley before the 2013-14 season. “I didn’t expect them (Bloomington) to be that bad, I’m not trying to embarrass anybody. And I didn’t expect my bench to play that well. I had one (bench) player make eight of nine 3s.”
Advertisement
Anderson said proof of the fact he wasn’t trying to embarrass anybody was that he not only didn’t post the score on Maxpreps.com, he didn’t report it to any newspaper. However, pictures of the scoreboard and final score were posted to the team’s Facebook page.
“The game just got away from me,” he said.
He said it could do things differently, he wouldn’t have played his starters after the first quarter, but if he could do it all over again, “I wouldn’t play the game at all.”
“I’ve known him for about seven years ... He’s a great Xs and Os coach. Ethically? Not so much,” Chung said. “He knows what he did was wrong.”
Said Bloomington athletic director Chris Brickley, who was not at the game: “I think they crossed the line although I don’t think Arroyo Valley agrees with that.”
Chung said he is in his fourth year coaching at Bloomington and first as varsity head coach, although he served in that capacity as acting head coach for the final two months of last season. Only one player returned from last year’s last-place team.
“I’m proud of my team, because it (ugly game) didn’t affect them,” Chung said. “But it should affect them a little.”
Anderson said he was in a meeting Thursday in which he was being reprimanded, but he expected he would continue to coach the team.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/17 14:29:17
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 14:33:00
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
|
I can't pretend to understand any of the basketball jargon, but I don't see how this is an issue. If it were just a friendly muck-about game, then maybe it would be fair to take some kind of handicap to ensure everyone is having fun, but this seems to have been a competitive game and in that sense, I don't think you can blame any team from playing (within the rules of the sport) as well as they feel they can.
If I've misunderstood, could someone who speaks basketballese explain the situation in layman's terms?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 14:36:19
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
|
I don't get it, a good team beat a bad team by a large margin? Maybe its because my school was rubbish at sports when I went there (we didn't give out sports scholarships at the time, so we were just incredibly outclassed by some schools), but getting beaten badly on the weekend isn't really the end of the world. I mean from memory the year after I left out 1st XV lost a game 108-0 or something in Rugby Union, and there wasn't a big hullabaloo about unethical sportsmanship or whatever, they just dealt with it
|
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 14:39:28
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Paradigm wrote:I can't pretend to understand any of the basketball jargon, but I don't see how this is an issue. If it were just a friendly muck-about game, then maybe it would be fair to take some kind of handicap to ensure everyone is having fun, but this seems to have been a competitive game and in that sense, I don't think you can blame any team from playing (within the rules of the sport) as well as they feel they can.
If I've misunderstood, could someone who speaks basketballese explain the situation in layman's terms?
I'm not up on basketball either, but from what I understand there's an unwritten gentleman's rule about sportsmanship that you shouldn't try to score over a certain margin once it becomes clear that the other team can't actually win/compete.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 14:50:31
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Confessor Of Sins
|
Platuan4th wrote:I'm not up on basketball either, but from what I understand there's an unwritten gentleman's rule about sportsmanship that you shouldn't try to score over a certain margin once it becomes clear that the other team can't actually win/compete.
Could be. Many other gentleman's agreements in sports, like the football (soccer) one where you'll kick the ball out of bounds if an opposing player looks to be hurt - and his team will throw it back to you once the game goes on.
I know some of our lower icehockey series actually break the match after a certain point, and that's in the rules. But the higher series require that you play to the bitter end no matter how bad it looks. My local team (which failed to move to the next higher series last year) recently crushed another (the team that barely managed to stay in the current series) by some pretty sick numbers. Sure, they felt bad about it - but if they'd quit playing the judge would have had to punish them for it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 14:56:59
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
|
Isn't it the American Dream to beat everyone else into submission and declare your dominance to the world?
After all, even basketball shoes are bound to have bootstraps that you can pull yourself up by
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 15:01:49
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Junior Officer with Laspistol
Perth/Glasgow
|
motyak wrote:I don't get it, a good team beat a bad team by a large margin? Maybe its because my school was rubbish at sports when I went there (we didn't give out sports scholarships at the time, so we were just incredibly outclassed by some schools), but getting beaten badly on the weekend isn't really the end of the world. I mean from memory the year after I left out 1st XV lost a game 108-0 or something in Rugby Union, and there wasn't a big hullabaloo about unethical sportsmanship or whatever, they just dealt with it
In the UK American football gets like this, there's perhaps 4 teams @ Adult and 2 @ university level that are clearly a huge margin above the others and have in seasons past put up 100 pts games, again everybody around the league accepts that this will happen and just play with a running clock and 12 minute quarters instead of 15 so it doesn't get a badly out of hand
|
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 15:03:55
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Playing full-court press when you know your team will win is a dick move; especially in an unofficial game.
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 15:53:36
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
|
I think running up the score is poor sportsmanship, and even more so when it's a high school game. The idea behind school athletic programs is, at least in theory, supposed to be educational: there were no good lessons taught here.
Perhaps they should consider implementing the mercy rule.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/17 15:54:31
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 17:38:46
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Hangin' with Gork & Mork
|
To give it some context if this were Soccer (Futball/Football) the score would be something like 81-1.
|
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 17:50:03
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
He benched his starters in the second half and had his team hold off on shooting.
Should he have benched his whole team?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 17:52:22
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
Ouze wrote:Perhaps they should consider implementing the mercy rule.
Yes, they should. None of this "pieces of flair" bs - if the team that is winning isn't allowed to play to the best of their ability, the rules should say the game ends then and there.
These idiots think playing well is bad sportsmanship? How is just playing keep-away for fifteen minutes any better? Are you going to feel better if you manage to score a three-pointer against a superior team, then find out it was only because their coach would be punished if they didn't let you?
|
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 18:01:11
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
|
Yeah, the coach did about 75% of what he could have to curtail the scoring. He benched his starters after the first half, changed his defense to allow the opponents past the half court line, and had his team run out the clock as much as he reasonably could.
The only thing he could have done was literally have his girls just dribble in circles for the entire shot clock to turn it over so they didn't score. But honestly he was probably working on developing simple skills and getting game time with his younger players.
The other team needs to suck it up or there needs to be a mercy rule. And honestly who expects their B/C team to score 60% of the points as their A team without a full court press and restricted to only shooting with 7 seconds left on the shot clock.
Not seeing an issue here.
|
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 18:14:12
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Anyone who thinks that "winning too high" is bad sportsmanship should never, ever do any sport and just stay at home and watch paint dry.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 18:25:45
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
|
dogma wrote:Playing full-court press when you know your team will win is a dick move; especially in an unofficial game.
For those who don't know, when you score in basketball you then return possession of the ball to the other team. They have one player pass it in from out of bounds next to their hoop and dribble it the length of the court to where they're trying to score. Full court press means the defense jumps on them immediately for the full lenght. It's very aggressive, and while it's risky if teams are of equal skill, if the defense is much better than the offense they can just completely shut the offense down. It can be like stealing candy from a baby. Often the offensive team won't even be able to pass it back in bounds and it will force a turnover. Meanwhile, half court press means the defense withdraws to their hoop and lets the offense advance. It's less risky, since rather than having defenders scattered across the entire court they're concentrated at the hoop so the offense can't slip past them for easy points.
|
I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 19:25:16
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Member of the Ethereal Council
|
While I dislike punishin him for winning, I feel I dont know alot of BB terms to understand if what he did was wrong.
Can someone put it in warhammer terms?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 19:30:48
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
|
hotsauceman1 wrote:While I dislike punishin him for winning, I feel I dont know alot of BB terms to understand if what he did was wrong.
Can someone put it in warhammer terms?
A full 7 turns of Triptide vs all-Grots, where 95% of the grots are killed in turn one. The game continues because the 6 grots that keep making saving throws mean the grot player "could still win".
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/17 19:36:51
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 19:46:22
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
I call for a Trial of Refusal
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 20:34:39
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
|
Sounds like the other team sucks. Good. They need to learn they're losers early and maybe they'll be able to turn their lives around and suck less.
Good it disgusts me how weak these people are.
|
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 20:50:23
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
|
Sigvatr wrote:Anyone who thinks that "winning too high" is bad sportsmanship should never, ever do any sport and just stay at home and watch paint dry.
Or quit life. Seriously, this PC bs about hurting other people's feelings is getting to be too much. Is this what we're becoming? A bunch of pansy ass douchebags who cry if we lose a game? The stupidity is mind blowing. Special snowflake syndrome...jeez.
So yeah, I propose SSS or S3 to make the Dakka glossary now. Because apparently we need it. "They outplayed us and I don't agree with that; they're clearly bad sports!" Suck it, crappy coach.
|
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 20:52:35
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Sounds like the other team sucks. Good. They need to learn they're losers early and maybe they'll be able to turn their lives around and suck less.
Good it disgusts me how weak these people are.
Whut?
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 20:57:33
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
|
I remember the last time we had this thread, there were plenty of people who didn't see anything wrong with running up a score in a high school game, and some of them made some good points why.
I guess this time we decided to just essentially become a parody of the worst arguments from there.
I would say "next time we can say if you think this is bad sportsmanship, you should kill yourself", but someone already did that, so I don't see how we can lower the bar.
|
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 21:00:07
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Sigvatr wrote:Anyone who thinks that "winning too high" is bad sportsmanship should never, ever do any sport and just stay at home and watch paint dry.
Funny you should mention that, as I engaged in the sport of paint drying.
But seriously: even in high school wrestling, a sport defined by individual competition, there are technical fall rules.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/17 21:04:51
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 21:11:16
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
|
Ouze wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:While I dislike punishin him for winning, I feel I dont know alot of BB terms to understand if what he did was wrong.
Can someone put it in warhammer terms?
A full 7 turns of Triptide vs all-Grots, where 95% of the grots are killed in turn one. The game continues because the 6 grots that keep making saving throws mean the grot player "could still win".
But in that situation, the onus I would say is on the Grot player to concede/surrender/capitulate, rather than the Triptide player to declare 'I win' at the end of T1 and expect the other guy to just accept that. If it was becoming too embarrassing/demoralising/whatever, surely the losing side or their coach could say enough was enough and concede the game.
On another note, the whole reason sports have scores rather than just alternating between 'winning team' and 'losing team' is so there can be a margin of victory. If you win a game of football (soccer) 6-0 against one team and only 1-0 against another, then anyone can see that the second team you played is worse than your side but better than the first side. In this case, the team that won by a huge margin didn't do so because they invoked sorcery or had exceptional luck, they won because they were that order of magnitude better than the opposing team. The whole point of having a score system is to reflect that, not just that one side won or lost but by what margin they did so.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 21:16:42
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
|
Ouze wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:While I dislike punishin him for winning, I feel I dont know alot of BB terms to understand if what he did was wrong.
Can someone put it in warhammer terms?
A full 7 turns of Triptide vs all-Grots, where 95% of the grots are killed in turn one. The game continues because the 6 grots that keep making saving throws mean the grot player "could still win".
Uh... all grots?
Triptide can't kill 'em fast enough before getting into combat eventually. And I'd take grots over any Taus.
|
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 21:35:10
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
Paradigm wrote:
On another note, the whole reason sports have scores rather than just alternating between 'winning team' and 'losing team' is so there can be a margin of victory.
That is entirely false. Scoring, in part, define the conditions by which a competing team can win according to a mutually agreed set of rules, which necessarily define the game. It isn't about a margin of victory in the sense that you mean.
Though the NCAA would disagree with me.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/17 21:37:46
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 22:19:28
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
|
Margin of victory does matter, in most league sports its used as a tiebreaker to determine rankings and playoff placement.
I see no bad sportsmanship here, it sounds like the winning coach did what he could to keep the score in check, and the losing coach is suffering from sour grapes.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 22:21:52
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
|
Ouze wrote:I remember the last time we had this thread, there were plenty of people who didn't see anything wrong with running up a score in a high school game, and some of them made some good points why.
I guess this time we decided to just essentially become a parody of the worst arguments from there.
I would say "next time we can say if you think this is bad sportsmanship, you should kill yourself", but someone already did that, so I don't see how we can lower the bar.
Probably because we're sick of SSS? That's why we went to the extremes immediately. It's not like we're wrong: SSS is bs and teaches nothing but "whining gets you what you want". If we wanted a planet full of babies, then the article would hold value. We don't, and it doesn't.
And I said quit life-not kill themselves. I don't think anyone actually said "kill yourself".
|
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 22:28:20
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
chaos0xomega wrote:Margin of victory does matter, in most league sports its used as a tiebreaker to determine rankings and playoff placement.
Margin of victory only comes into play in select circumstances (and it is dubious when it does) and this was not one of them; as this was not a league game.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/17 22:30:34
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/01/17 22:32:23
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
|
 |
Sniping Reverend Moira
|
I think the full court press is the only thing they shouldn't have done. It would have given them a good opportunity to work on some different zone defenses.
With that being said, the other team shouldn't be playing unless there is a mercy rule in place, which sadly, there isn't.
I've been in this kind of game in high school. Up 55-0 at halftime. Our starters started getting pulled midway through the 2nd quarter, which sucked because it was cold and raining out, and we had to stand around for the 2nd half.
|
|
|
 |
 |
|