Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/01/17 22:50:44
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Ouze wrote: I remember the last time we had this thread, there were plenty of people who didn't see anything wrong with running up a score in a high school game, and some of them made some good points why.
I guess this time we decided to just essentially become a parody of the worst arguments from there.
I would say "next time we can say if you think this is bad sportsmanship, you should kill yourself", but someone already did that, so I don't see how we can lower the bar.
Probably because we're sick of SSS? That's why we went to the extremes immediately. It's not like we're wrong: SSS is bs and teaches nothing but "whining gets you what you want". If we wanted a planet full of babies, then the article would hold value. We don't, and it doesn't.
And I said quit life-not kill themselves. I don't think anyone actually said "kill yourself".
Oh bull. Special Snowflake syndrome was made up by the generation looking at my generation and trying to critique us. Which is what every previous generation does. Kids grow up and change, they wont grow up thinking the world owes them everything, because shock, a rude awakening is part of adulthood and the transition to adulthood. Can you honestly say you are the same person you where in your teenage or college years?
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2015/01/17 23:22:01
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Ouze wrote: I remember the last time we had this thread, there were plenty of people who didn't see anything wrong with running up a score in a high school game, and some of them made some good points why.
I guess this time we decided to just essentially become a parody of the worst arguments from there.
I would say "next time we can say if you think this is bad sportsmanship, you should kill yourself", but someone already did that, so I don't see how we can lower the bar.
Probably because we're sick of SSS? That's why we went to the extremes immediately. It's not like we're wrong: SSS is bs and teaches nothing but "whining gets you what you want". If we wanted a planet full of babies, then the article would hold value. We don't, and it doesn't.
And I said quit life-not kill themselves. I don't think anyone actually said "kill yourself".
Oh bull. Special Snowflake syndrome was made up by the generation looking at my generation and trying to critique us. Which is what every previous generation does. Kids grow up and change, they wont grow up thinking the world owes them everything, because shock, a rude awakening is part of adulthood and the transition to adulthood. Can you honestly say you are the same person you where in your teenage or college years?
When I was in school, and we played a sport and got whipped, we didn't cry that the other coach was a big meanie: we learned from our mistakes and worked on them. You screw up so you can learn what mistakes you made and how to improve. Trying to get someone thrown out for being better at something than you isn't "growth" or "improvement". It's a petty, childish stamping of the feet temper tantrum. Every generation HAS grown softer: I've had to bust ass a lot less than my dad did while growing up: this is true. But this is a temper tantrum.
And to answer your question, yes, I am the same person I was when I was a teen, only I've learned from my mistakes and have grown as a person. I busted ass in jobs since I was 14, worked every semester through college, and have continued to strive to the point of being a top manager at the medical company I work for. And yes, HSM, I'm only 7 or 8 years older than you: still in your "generation". And SSS pisses me off to no end. It's a bunch of entitled people who don't want to fix their shortcomings, but would rather knock down people who don't suffer from the same shortcomings. And if that's the attitude the world accepts, I pity the Idiocracy we're going to become. Or maybe Pansiocracy is more appropriate.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2015/01/17 23:38:45
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
And I can show you entitled people from previous generations. Hell look at the hippies and people who sang about a world where no one had to work?
And what is this? One game in thousands that happen every day across the countries. And one that looks like it has special circumstances that shows maybe the coach was rubbing salt in the wound?
SSS is a lie people have somehow convinced themselve has come up with just my generation when it has ALWAYS been this way.
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2015/01/17 23:57:54
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
The story I originally saw this pop up had a bit more to it, like the coach having done this before and had been asked to dial it back a bit and then the next game he just did it again and that is why he got the two game suspension. That may not be it but I recall there being a little more to it than just running up the score.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2015/01/18 01:26:26
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Sounds like the other team sucks. Good. They need to learn they're losers early and maybe they'll be able to turn their lives around and suck less.
Good it disgusts me how weak these people are.
timetowaste85 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote: Anyone who thinks that "winning too high" is bad sportsmanship should never, ever do any sport and just stay at home and watch paint dry.
Or quit life. Seriously, this PCbs about hurting other people's feelings is getting to be too much. Is this what we're becoming? A bunch of pansy ass douchebags who cry if we lose a game? The stupidity is mind blowing. Special snowflake syndrome...jeez.
So yeah, I propose SSS or S3 to make the Dakka glossary now. Because apparently we need it. "They outplayed us and I don't agree with that; they're clearly bad sports!" Suck it, crappy coach.
I know right? Do they not know that sport is, has been, and always will only be about winning? No one ever plays sports 'to enjoy themselves' or 'because they have to as part of their school curriculum', they should only ever play because they are the best players ever, and everyone that isn't as good as them should just 'quit life'. (though I'm not saying that they should kill themselves, just that they should quit life, because there's a massive distinction between those two things. One is ending your life, and one is leaving your life, so that you can load it from a save slot.)
It absolutely disgusts me that these children think that they should be able to enjoy themselves whilst playing sport. They should be playing to win, and the fact that they lost should only go to show them how awful a group of people they are, so that they can have some hope of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming the best.
Goddamn Special Snowflakes, they're the ones to blame for this. Who the feth do they think they are? Products of their environment? Pah, they are the only ones responsible for the context in which they were raised, so they are entirely at fault.
Something something 'suffering is good for you', something something 'watching a heavyweight beat up a toddler is brilliant entertainment'.
You guys can mock as much as you'd like, but "plays too good" wouldn't have been worthy of suspension ten years ago. And yes, I botched the proper word usage on purpose.
Tell you what, my soccer team in HS got its ass kicked on a regular basis. We never got our panties in a bunch over the other coach doing a good job at making his team strong. We did have issue when the other team was out to purposefully cripple us (had a couple guys seriously injured in a game through obvious attacks). Other than that, we just kept trying. Our coach actually quit a game to keep us safe against a particularly savage team after two players were carried off the field.
But there is a world of difference in throwing a game to keep the players safe vs asking for the suspension of a coach because his team plays hard and wins hard. A few people play just to play. But most people in the world want to win the games and sports they play. Deal with it.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2015/01/18 02:58:59
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Ouze wrote: I remember the last time we had this thread, there were plenty of people who didn't see anything wrong with running up a score in a high school game, and some of them made some good points why.
I guess this time we decided to just essentially become a parody of the worst arguments from there.
I would say "next time we can say if you think this is bad sportsmanship, you should kill yourself", but someone already did that, so I don't see how we can lower the bar.
Probably because we're sick of SSS? That's why we went to the extremes immediately. It's not like we're wrong: SSS is bs and teaches nothing but "whining gets you what you want". If we wanted a planet full of babies, then the article would hold value. We don't, and it doesn't.
And I said quit life-not kill themselves. I don't think anyone actually said "kill yourself".
Oh bull. Special Snowflake syndrome was made up by the generation looking at my generation and trying to critique us. Which is what every previous generation does. Kids grow up and change, they wont grow up thinking the world owes them everything, because shock, a rude awakening is part of adulthood and the transition to adulthood. Can you honestly say you are the same person you where in your teenage or college years?
When I was in school, and we played a sport and got whipped, we didn't cry that the other coach was a big meanie: we learned from our mistakes and worked on them. You screw up so you can learn what mistakes you made and how to improve. Trying to get someone thrown out for being better at something than you isn't "growth" or "improvement". It's a petty, childish stamping of the feet temper tantrum. Every generation HAS grown softer: I've had to bust ass a lot less than my dad did while growing up: this is true. But this is a temper tantrum.
And to answer your question, yes, I am the same person I was when I was a teen, only I've learned from my mistakes and have grown as a person. I busted ass in jobs since I was 14, worked every semester through college, and have continued to strive to the point of being a top manager at the medical company I work for. And yes, HSM, I'm only 7 or 8 years older than you: still in your "generation". And SSS pisses me off to no end. It's a bunch of entitled people who don't want to fix their shortcomings, but would rather knock down people who don't suffer from the same shortcomings. And if that's the attitude the world accepts, I pity the Idiocracy we're going to become. Or maybe Pansiocracy is more appropriate.
Goliath wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:Sounds like the other team sucks. Good. They need to learn they're losers early and maybe they'll be able to turn their lives around and suck less.
Good it disgusts me how weak these people are.
timetowaste85 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote: Anyone who thinks that "winning too high" is bad sportsmanship should never, ever do any sport and just stay at home and watch paint dry.
Or quit life. Seriously, this PCbs about hurting other people's feelings is getting to be too much. Is this what we're becoming? A bunch of pansy ass douchebags who cry if we lose a game? The stupidity is mind blowing. Special snowflake syndrome...jeez.
So yeah, I propose SSS or S3 to make the Dakka glossary now. Because apparently we need it. "They outplayed us and I don't agree with that; they're clearly bad sports!" Suck it, crappy coach.
I know right? Do they not know that sport is, has been, and always will only be about winning? No one ever plays sports 'to enjoy themselves' or 'because they have to as part of their school curriculum', they should only ever play because they are the best players ever, and everyone that isn't as good as them should just 'quit life'. (though I'm not saying that they should kill themselves, just that they should quit life, because there's a massive distinction between those two things. One is ending your life, and one is leaving your life, so that you can load it from a save slot.)
It absolutely disgusts me that these children think that they should be able to enjoy themselves whilst playing sport. They should be playing to win, and the fact that they lost should only go to show them how awful a group of people they are, so that they can have some hope of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming the best.
Goddamn Special Snowflakes, they're the ones to blame for this. Who the feth do they think they are? Products of their environment? Pah, they are the only ones responsible for the context in which they were raised, so they are entirely at fault.
Something something 'suffering is good for you', something something 'watching a heavyweight beat up a toddler is brilliant entertainment'.
This is 'Merica, second place is just the first loser. 'Rah.
I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.
2015/01/18 05:05:27
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Man, just reading the losings coach's complaints is so hilarious its sad.
He just across as a petulant loser. Sure, maybe it wasn't nice for the other team to keep playing hard ball, but this isn't about being nice. And hey, he took out his second string and benchwarmers. He could have done a lot worse.
Nobody should be punished for being so much better than everyone else(this goes for people who have lots of money too, not just little kid sport events)
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Maybe we should develop a system whereby everyone that takes part gets a little prize, win or lose?
Stuff like this grinds my gears. If you can't stand losing don't compete. There has to be winners and losers in any sport, regardless of the winning margin, take your thrashing like a man and learn from it. Don't take your toy's and throw them out of the pram. Maybe this guy's team lost by those significant margins because he just sucks at being a coach? If so, he should learn from it and maybe seek out another form of work?
And yes, in the UK especially, we are breeding a generation of self entitled little gaks who think that the world owes them something because they've been born. NO. It bloody doesn't.
2015/01/18 07:14:37
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
I saw this article earlier but didn't quite understand it, i'm not a basketball guy. It sounds like the winning team was playing prison rules or something? How old were the players? If they were like 12 or something i guess i can see a problem, but otherwise isn't the point of the game to outscore the opponent?
I've got this wierd warhammer vibe here where you somehow become tfg if you field an effective army.
2015/01/18 08:21:36
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
When I was in school, and we played a sport and got whipped, we didn't cry that the other coach was a big meanie: we learned from our mistakes and worked on them.
I'm pretty sure there's nothing to be learned in this case, aside from "The players on that team are far more athletic than we are." To lose that badly in basketball requires a lot more than poor play. The suspended coach knew this, because no one in their right mind would play full-court press against a competent opponent at the beginning of a game.
Trying to get someone thrown out for being better at something than you isn't "growth" or "improvement". It's a petty, childish stamping of the feet temper tantrum.
I would argue that running up the score when doing so is not beneficial is petty, and childish.
And SSS pisses me off to no end. It's a bunch of entitled people who don't want to fix their shortcomings, but would rather knock down people who don't suffer from the same shortcomings. And if that's the attitude the world accepts, I pity the Idiocracy we're going to become. Or maybe Pansiocracy is more appropriate.
The funny thing about special snowflake syndrome is that complaining about it necessarily means succumbing to it. A fact which should give anyone throwing the term around pause.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/01/18 08:32:52
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Eh, it just doesn't sound like timetowaste actually understands the concept of sportsmanship.
I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.
2015/01/18 11:35:23
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Trying to get someone thrown out for being better at something than you isn't "growth" or "improvement". It's a petty, childish stamping of the feet temper tantrum.
I would argue that running up the score when doing so is not beneficial is petty, and childish.
Could you explain why, as I really don't get that? The team was not cheating, they were not doing anything against the rules of the game, I fail to see why they should be punished or condemned for being that much better than their opponents. Increasing the score is always beneficial, as it reduces the chance of the opponent overtaking you, which is the whole point of scoring points, whether that is 1 or 100.
I just think this whole situation is totally ridiculous. Two teams play a game using the same agreed-upon ruleset, one has a skill level and tactic that causes them to win by a significant margin, and because of that, the coach that helped the team achieve that is punished?
To put it in cricketing terms, as that's a sport I actually understand, this is like saying that because a team wins a test match in the 3rd innings thanks to posting a huge score then bowling well, the Captain or coach should be suspended.
2015/01/18 12:05:45
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
hotsauceman1 wrote: I got an idea, lets feth up an entire generation we raised, and blame them.
Can we also tell them their entire lives to go to college or they be working at McDonalds, then crater the economy, so that when they're neck-deep in student loans and can't find a job, ask why they're too good to work fast food?
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/01/18 12:13:41
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Could you explain why, as I really don't get that? The team was not cheating, they were not doing anything against the rules of the game, I fail to see why they should be punished or condemned for being that much better than their opponents. Increasing the score is always beneficial, as it reduces the chance of the opponent overtaking you, which is the whole point of scoring points, whether that is 1 or 100.
The team isn't being punished, the coach is.
Also, you clearly do not understand what "running up the score" entails. It isn't just scoring more points, it is scoring more points when the outcome has already been all but decided.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/01/18 12:22:13
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Could you explain why, as I really don't get that? The team was not cheating, they were not doing anything against the rules of the game, I fail to see why they should be punished or condemned for being that much better than their opponents. Increasing the score is always beneficial, as it reduces the chance of the opponent overtaking you, which is the whole point of scoring points, whether that is 1 or 100.
The team isn't being punished, the coach is.
Also, you clearly do not understand what "running up the score" entails. It isn't just scoring more points, it is scoring more points when the outcome has already been all but decided.
Which is even odder (in general, I find sports where the coach is held more responsible than the players rather strange). Either way, the fact that anyone responsible for winning a game is being punished is stupid.
And I am aware of the concept of running up the score, I just don't see how it's a bad thing. The team was not cheating, they just played better by a huge amount and the score reflects that, as it should. If you are good enough to win by that margin, then why shouldn't you be allowed to?
2015/01/18 12:43:01
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Which is even odder (in general, I find sports where the coach is held more responsible than the players rather strange). Either way, the fact that anyone responsible for winning a game is being punished is stupid.
So you find all team sports, especially youth team sports, strange?
And I am aware of the concept of running up the score, I just don't see how it's a bad thing. The team was not cheating, they just played better by a huge amount and the score reflects that, as it should. If you are good enough to win by that margin, then why shouldn't you be allowed to?
The team was allowed to. The objection stems from the coach's seeming choice to run up the score against a team that he knew could not respond. As I said up thread, no one in their right mind would run full-court press at the beginning of a game; unless they knew they would win regardless.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/01/18 12:59:53
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Which is even odder (in general, I find sports where the coach is held more responsible than the players rather strange). Either way, the fact that anyone responsible for winning a game is being punished is stupid.
So you find all team sports, especially youth team sports, strange?
To some extent, yes, I suppose. Maybe it's because I'm used to sports like cricket and rugby where the coach has far less input on the game itself than in some American sports, and is more responsible for tactics and training than in-game role, I do find it odd when a coach is punished or praised depending on the performance of his team. The players won or lost the game, they should be the ones to bear that responsibility. It's why I get slightly annoyed when, going back to cricket for a moment, the coach is called on to resign after an unsuccessful series when it's the players that ultimately lost the games.
And I am aware of the concept of running up the score, I just don't see how it's a bad thing. The team was not cheating, they just played better by a huge amount and the score reflects that, as it should. If you are good enough to win by that margin, then why shouldn't you be allowed to?
The team was allowed to. The objection stems from the coach's seeming choice to run up the score against a team that he knew could not respond. As I said up thread, no one in their right mind would run full-court press at the beginning of a game; unless they knew they would win regardless.
Again, I don't see why this is an issue. If you are confident enough that you can play an aggressive strategy from the first moment and gain an early advantage (and then keep building it), then why shouldn't you?
Would you rather he had told them to stop scoring, and just play completely defensive and achieve the same result? Or to 'let' the other side score so they feel better about themselves, but the score does not accurately reflect the quality of the two teams?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/18 13:02:39
2015/01/18 14:04:02
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
Paradigm wrote: ...I do find it odd when a coach is punished or praised depending on the performance of his team.
The performance of a coach can only be determined by the performance of the team he coaches. That isn't a thing unique to American sports, it happens everywhere; and for good reason. What players do in the course of competition is a direct reflection of coaching.
Again, I don't see why this is an issue. If you are confident enough that you can play an aggressive strategy from the first moment and gain an early advantage (and then keep building it), then why shouldn't you?
Because it is poor sportsmanship. The suspended coach could have played any form of offense or defense and still ended up with a win, but he chose the one which would enable the score to be run up.
Would you rather he had told them to stop scoring, and just play completely defensive and achieve the same result? Or to 'let' the other side score so they feel better about themselves, but the score does not accurately reflect the quality of the two teams?
I would rather the game had never been played. It seems like an AD error spurred this fiasco.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/18 14:07:40
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/01/18 15:02:11
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
I'm afraid I'm in Paradigm's boat. I still don't get why its that bad. Back in school, in grade 11 (11B's, not even the A's), we had to play against a touring squad from NZ for Union. Seemed weird, but hey, they're touring and want to play us, sure. Half way through the match, when it was about 40-0, we found out they were meant to play our grade 12 team (seniors), and it had all got fouled up. Even though we were getting hammered and had no chance, we played on, most of us got concussed, and had a great time and let them play a game of footy, even if it wasn't the one they wanted to play. I even got one of their school ties for something or other, my memory is a bit fuzzy about it funnily enough.
The point is, we didn't feel they were running up the score or anything, just that they were playing the sport we'd agreed to play, to the best of their ability just as we were, and it just turned out they were way bigger and better than us. I don't see the difference between us playing against a much better team and getting trounced (they put over 100 on us that game) and this scenario, except in this one a guy got suspended for winning. There was no bitterness in our game, no anger at losing or at them for winning, it was just a fun and (physically) painful game.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2015/01/18 15:07:09
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
motyak wrote: The point is, we didn't feel they were running up the score or anything, just that they were playing the sport we'd agreed to play, to the best of their ability just as we were, and it just turned out they were way bigger and better than us. I don't see the difference between us playing against a much better team and getting trounced (they put over 100 on us that game) and this scenario, except in this one a guy got suspended for winning. There was no bitterness in our game, no anger at losing or at them for winning, it was just a fun and (physically) painful game.
And this I believe is the crux of the matter. Competitive games are just that. They are decided by stamina, skill, tactics, etc. If one team comes to the game under prepared then why should the prepared team have to shoulder the burden?
2015/01/18 15:08:01
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
motyak wrote: I don't get it, a good team beat a bad team by a large margin? Maybe its because my school was rubbish at sports when I went there (we didn't give out sports scholarships at the time, so we were just incredibly outclassed by some schools), but getting beaten badly on the weekend isn't really the end of the world. I mean from memory the year after I left out 1st XV lost a game 108-0 or something in Rugby Union, and there wasn't a big hullabaloo about unethical sportsmanship or whatever, they just dealt with it
In the UK American football gets like this, there's perhaps 4 teams @ Adult and 2 @ university level that are clearly a huge margin above the others and have in seasons past put up 100 pts games, again everybody around the league accepts that this will happen and just play with a running clock and 12 minute quarters instead of 15 so it doesn't get a badly out of hand
As an ex devils player I can confirm this lol
2015/01/18 15:17:05
Subject: High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
One team was obviously a lot better and more skilled.
Maybe coach did a unkind thing but more someone needs to reconsider the matching up system they use. Should try to at least put two teams of roughly equal ability statistcly together.
Makes the game better for both teams
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2015/01/18 15:18:20
Subject: Re:High school coach suspended after record win Basketball
I not refuse but call the medics before we do a full court press for I be the one in cardiac arrest
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha