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Ignoring the title, which is pure brinksmanship, I found the content of this article fascinating. While as a red blooded free market capitalist I find the taxes abhorrent, as well as a culture in which books are a luxury item terrifying, but the social commentary about conformity, the enforcing of the average, I find that all quite worrying and I have to wonder if it's not damaging to one's mental health. Yes Americans in particular can be all the hell over the place when it comes to tastes and sub-culture, but then we started out as outcasts for the most part, from the first immigration wave to the latest, in many cases we simply didn't fit in at home and thus we left. So I find the idea of a homogenous culture like that utterly alien.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Many cultures and regions around the world are insular, they don't necessary have differences that are too great. America on the other hand is basically what happened if you asked "can culture blend?
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Lt. Coldfire wrote:Seems to me that you should be refereeing and handing out red cards--like a boss.
Ignoring the title, which is pure brinksmanship, I found the content of this article fascinating. While as a red blooded free market capitalist I find the taxes abhorrent, as well as a culture in which books are a luxury item terrifying, but the social commentary about conformity, the enforcing of the average, I find that all quite worrying and I have to wonder if it's not damaging to one's mental health. Yes Americans in particular can be all the hell over the place when it comes to tastes and sub-culture, but then we started out as outcasts for the most part, from the first immigration wave to the latest, in many cases we simply didn't fit in at home and thus we left. So I find the idea of a homogenous culture like that utterly alien.
First let's get this out of the way.......yes, I'm Danish.
Second, I'll happily admit that the Danish system has its problems, and could certainly be improved in several ways.
Having said that, the article linked isn't entirely truthful. There are quite a few outright lies and some of the "facts" presented fall somewhat short of the entire story.
Here is a thing that they actually got right; we pay a lot of taxes.......and I am fine with that as I see what we get in return. As for the rest.......yeah, no. I could go through them point-by-point, but that really isn't necessary.
When it comes to the message of the article I have this to say to the authors (not the OP, mind you); If you need to resort to lies and half-truths to get you political message across.....you are sad group of individuals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Torga_DW wrote: Dare i say it? The old 'socialism vs democracy' issue.
It might be, but in that case it would be "Democracy vs. Democracy" as Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden (the examples used in the article) are democracies.
Sometimes it feels like a group of outspoken Americans classify anything even remotely approaching a sense of common social responsibility or a feeling of shared responsibility for societal development as "Socialism" (which is the latest stand-in word for "Communism" which is a stand-in word for "Evil". Other examples in American history includes "N-word"* and "Injun"). It sometimes seems like American society as a whole hasn't gotten over the Cold War yet, much less the McCarthy years.
Should an American feel slighted by my characterisation of American society, then welcome to the fold. That's how I feel about that article.
*Note that I can't even use the actual word without fear of having my entire post deleted. That fact alone speaks volumes.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/18 00:01:49
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Also, "socialism vs democracy" is a phallacy. It is quite possible for a country to be both, like Denmark or my own home country, the Netherlands. Socialism vs capitlism seems a fairer comparison, and I'm not even sure about that one.
@ Steelmage99: America just comes across to me as a very dualistic culture. Everything is either black or white, right or wrong, win or lose.
Although I freely admit that this image is very much exacerbated by the internet, many Americans I have met in real life sported a similar, albeit not as aggressively in-your-face as on the internet, outlook on things.
With a lot of things in real life that aren't sports results related, the truth, or something apporaching truth, is much more often found on a sliding scale.
SteelImage I'd actually appreciate a more comprehensive reaction from you if you don't mind writing one. I like getting both sides, it's half of why I posted it here.
Bran you probably mean fallacy as opposed to phallacy. It's a rather critical difference.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Having said that, the article linked isn't entirely truthful. There are quite a few outright lies and some of the "facts" presented fall somewhat short of the entire story.
Here is a thing that they actually got right; we pay a lot of taxes.......and I am fine with that as I see what we get in return.
As for the rest.......yeah, no. I could go through them point-by-point, but that really isn't necessary.
Even if you don't feel like going point by point, would you be willing to point out the main parts that you think are incorrect? That would be helpful for those of us who don't live in Nordic countries.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:SteelImage I'd actually appreciate a more comprehensive reaction from you if you don't mind writing one. I like getting both sides, it's half of why I posted it here.
Bran you probably mean fallacy as opposed to phallacy. It's a rather critical difference.
Having said that, the article linked isn't entirely truthful. There are quite a few outright lies and some of the "facts" presented fall somewhat short of the entire story.
Here is a thing that they actually got right; we pay a lot of taxes.......and I am fine with that as I see what we get in return.
As for the rest.......yeah, no. I could go through them point-by-point, but that really isn't necessary.
Even if you don't feel like going point by point, would you be willing to point out the main parts that you think are incorrect? That would be helpful for those of us who don't live in Nordic countries.
Yes, I'll do so.....tomorrow. It's late here.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Wow. That was a really stupid article. Like really, really stupid.
Soo... Scandinavia is neither utopia nor perfect? And it is not exactly like the US? How shocking. How wrong!
You do understand that the only thing that writer gets across is that he is a bit of a jingoist? It also reminds me a lot of how Putin controlled media reports about the US, or Sweden for what that matters.
Also. There are no islamist gangs controlling entire neighbourhoods in sweden. That is an outright lie. And all serious research points to that a growing majority of swedes are positive towards immigration.
And also, how are we at the same time homogenous while a third of our population is born somewhere else than Sweden. A claim by the way, that is not supported by any sources. According to SCB (Statistics Sweden) that number is %15 and the largest immigrant group in Sweden comes from FInland.
And yeah, I am fine with paying %30 of my income in taxes. And also, that guy obviously didn't get the point of the movie Together. And finally, no, books are not a luxury item in any nordic country.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/18 00:55:54
Dripping with Jingoism and point scoring. this article is barely even about Nordic countries, just an excuse to attack political opponents.
I read upto; "So how happy can these drunk, depressed, lazy, tumor-ridden, pig-bonking bureaucrats really be?" and realised that this wasn't exactly going to be a well researched or even remotely factual piece, and I'm not even Scandinavian.
I'm guessing the New York Post is some sort of Tabloid?
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
Ignoring the title, which is pure brinksmanship, I found the content of this article fascinating. While as a red blooded free market capitalist I find the taxes abhorrent, as well as a culture in which books are a luxury item terrifying, but the social commentary about conformity, the enforcing of the average, I find that all quite worrying and I have to wonder if it's not damaging to one's mental health. Yes Americans in particular can be all the hell over the place when it comes to tastes and sub-culture, but then we started out as outcasts for the most part, from the first immigration wave to the latest, in many cases we simply didn't fit in at home and thus we left. So I find the idea of a homogenous culture like that utterly alien.
I wonder if the Post columnist actually understands that this is a satirical book filled with exaggeration by a UK author who resides in Denmark and wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
I wonder if the Post columnist actually understands that this is a satirical book filled with exaggeration by a UK author who resides in Denmark and wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
What, like the times "serious" news outlets have reported an Onion article as truth? ;-)
Some points are quite on the mark, however. It is usually seen as rude to point out that you are somehow "better" than your neighbors.
It's not hard to see in something like school, for example. Mandatory nine years for free (totally free, funded by taxes) and you can go on with higher studies up to and including university for free (you still need to buy the books, and find a place to live but society helps a bit there too). Everyone in mandatory school should be "equal" which means that slow learners get extra help to keep up - but if you're like me you're on your own. Mom got me a library card at age six and I was on Tolkien etc by twelve. Can you imagine reading and filling in the school books the first week because you're bored? And there was no option to give me and other kids like that harder or more stuff to do since then we'd somehow be "better" than the others. I coasted through nine years mandatory and three years Gymnasium (high school equivalent but much more mandatory subjects) half asleep. Sleeping in school (and getting a Laudatur for it, highest possible score) sadly also means you're woefully unprepared for real studies where you actually have to work.
Gotta agree with Steelmage99, if one has to lie to make a point, perhaps it's time to consider changing points of view. Sweden doesn't have a surplus, for example, the previous government slashed taxes and paid for it by borrowing.
EDIT: I also like how the article assumes that a lower level of masculinity is automatically something bad. Sexist much?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/18 13:29:02
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: I also like how the article assumes that a lower level of masculinity is automatically something bad.
Is it really worth living if you don't do so shirtless, oiled up, wearing a headband, and carrying a slab of meat in one hand and an firearm in the other?
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Use of Antidepressants
The most common form of treatment of depression is antidepressant medication. They are currently ranked ninth among prescription drugs with global sales well over $20 billion (16). Overall, antidepressant prescriptions have risen, but this has been offset by a number of patent expiries and generic alternatives (17). As Figure Figure11 shows, sales of antidepressants in the Nordic countries have increased up to fourfold since the middle of the 90s (18, 19).
Figure 1
Figure 1
Sales of antidepressants (N06A) in the Nordic Countries during 1995–2011 in DDD*/1000 inhabitants per day. *Defined Daily Doses according to WHO classification.
The overall sales of antidepressant drugs in the Nordic countries in 2009 (74.1 DDD/1000 inhabitants per day) is considerable higher than the OECD average (52.5), but also higher than for example in the UK (60.9) (20). However, there are great variations between the countries, where Iceland by far has the highest level of antidepressant sales, almost double that in Norway. In total, approximately 2 million Nordic inhabitants were prescribed an antidepressant, almost a share of 8.5% at a total cost of €236 million according to latest available statistics (ranging from 2010 to 2012). Danish medical statistics shows that there were sales of antidepressants in 2011 of €68 million and over 460 000 Danes were prescribed an antidepressant (8.3% of the population) (21). According to the Finnish Medicines Agency Fimea and Social Insurance Institution in 2010, estimated sales for antidepressants in Finland reached well over €44 million and more than 430 000 Finns were prescribed an antidepressant in 2010 (8.3% of the total Finnish population) (22). As reported by the Icelandic Medicines Agency estimated sales for antidepressants in 2010 were approximately €4 million (23), and over 35 000 patients in Iceland were prescribed an antidepressant in 2011 (11.2% of the total population) (24). Almost 300 000 Norwegians were prescribed an antidepressant in 2011 (6.3% of the population) and estimated sales were almost €50 million (25). In 2010, approximately 8.1% of the Swedish population did purchase an antidepressant drug and more than 5 million prescriptions of antidepressants were dispensed to almost 760 000 patients (26); antidepressant sales were estimated to almost €70 million (27).
Go to:
How Can This Rise in Antidepressants be Explained?
Several factors such as accessibility of drugs, available treatment alternatives, clinical practice and national guidelines, may influence patterns of prescribing and use of antidepressant drugs in the Nordic countries. Iceland has had a remarkable increase in antidepressant sales since 1995 (as indicated in Figure Figure1).1). An Icelandic study examining public views on antidepressant treatment suggested that the reason for the high usage of antidepressant in Iceland was a result of their perceived effectiveness by users, but also an effect of limited access to alternative treatment like psychotherapy (28). On the other hand, additional Icelandic research has suggested that despite an increase in antidepressants there were no positive impact on public health; instead the rates of psychiatric outpatient consultation and in patient treatment for depressive disorder increased, leading to increased medical costs (29). In a public health perspective this medical approach may seems questionable, but without further research on depression prevalence and why antidepressants are prescribed it is difficult to assess potential public health effects. This is of particular concern, since antidepressants in the absence of therapeutics alternatives are projected to continue to dominate the antidepressant market to 2018 (17).
Further research is therefore needed to scrutinize as to why differences in prevalence of depression and antidepressant sales exist between the Nordic countries, despite the Nordic model. The Nordic countries do for some reason have a high consumption of antidepressants compared to OECD despite relatively moderate or low depression prevalence patterns. This is especially important, since the increase in antidepressants consumption has spurred an ongoing debate whether antidepressants are overprescribed (30) (medicalization) or underprescribed (31) (poor access to treatment). With the increasing burden of disease due to mental disorders worldwide, knowledge of the epidemiology of these disorders are of increasing interest, and as indicated by others scholars (32) the Nordic countries have a strong history in this field of research. Otherwise valuable Nordic public health research may never be performed, despite its merits and its potential.
Ahtman wrote: Is it really worth living if you don't do so shirtless, oiled up, wearing a headband, and carrying a slab of meat in one hand and an firearm in the other?
That article is so full of bullgak, insults and lies it becomes rather funny. I had a good laugh. Danes are pig-bonking bureacrats I have to show this to my Danish friends. That being said, most of what applies to Denmark also applies to the Netherlands. Those countries are so similar it is almost a bit creepy.
Also, while Scandinavia is far from being an utopia, imo it is still by far the best place in the world to live. Especially Norway or Denmark.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/18 17:10:50
Bran Dawri wrote: Norway only if you earn Norwegian-level wages or are only there for a short period of time though.
That country is expensive.
Well, yes. One would assume that if you move to Norway and get a job in Norway, you'll get Norwegian-level wages. Also, a lot is made of the cost of living in Scandinavia, Norway in particular, but at least compared with the UK they're better off even after you factor in the higher prices. I forget the exact figures, but once you adjust for exchange rates and relative buying power etc etc, the statistically average Norwegian is around two or three times better off than the statistically average Brit, and that's before you consider the fact that it's significantly more likely that any given actual Norwegian person will sit around that average level than it is for people in the UK, where the average is grotesquely distorted by a few of the extremely wealthy covering up(in the statistical rather than conspiratorial sense) the fact that the numbers in relative poverty are much higher here. I'm not sure how that calculation would work out for the USA, since the US has an even more extreme level of income inequality, but I think your cost of living might be low enough to somewhat mitigate that.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Oh absolutely, Scandinavian countries have the highest standard of living in the world, or as near as makes no never mind.
My admittedly ill-made point was that that standard of living comes (quite literally) with a price: A high cost of living.
That doesn't really matter for people who live there, because the high wages compensate for that, but for a foreigner who goes there for work or for holidays or wants to retire there will certainly notice the difference.
r_squared wrote: Dripping with Jingoism and point scoring. this article is barely even about Nordic countries, just an excuse to attack political opponents.
I read upto; "So how happy can these drunk, depressed, lazy, tumor-ridden, pig-bonking bureaucrats really be?" and realised that this wasn't exactly going to be a well researched or even remotely factual piece, and I'm not even Scandinavian.
I'm guessing the New York Post is some sort of Tabloid?
Owned by News Corp. And suddenly it all makes sense.
Ignoring the title, which is pure brinksmanship, I found the content of this article fascinating. While as a red blooded free market capitalist I find the taxes abhorrent, as well as a culture in which books are a luxury item terrifying, but the social commentary about conformity, the enforcing of the average, I find that all quite worrying and I have to wonder if it's not damaging to one's mental health. Yes Americans in particular can be all the hell over the place when it comes to tastes and sub-culture, but then we started out as outcasts for the most part, from the first immigration wave to the latest, in many cases we simply didn't fit in at home and thus we left. So I find the idea of a homogenous culture like that utterly alien.
First let's get this out of the way.......yes, I'm Danish.
Second, I'll happily admit that the Danish system has its problems, and could certainly be improved in several ways.
Having said that, the article linked isn't entirely truthful. There are quite a few outright lies and some of the "facts" presented fall somewhat short of the entire story.
Here is a thing that they actually got right; we pay a lot of taxes.......and I am fine with that as I see what we get in return.
As for the rest.......yeah, no. I could go through them point-by-point, but that really isn't necessary.
When it comes to the message of the article I have this to say to the authors (not the OP, mind you); If you need to resort to lies and half-truths to get you political message across.....you are sad group of individuals.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Torga_DW wrote: Dare i say it? The old 'socialism vs democracy' issue.
It might be, but in that case it would be "Democracy vs. Democracy" as Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden (the examples used in the article) are democracies.
Sometimes it feels like a group of outspoken Americans classify anything even remotely approaching a sense of common social responsibility or a feeling of shared responsibility for societal development as "Socialism" (which is the latest stand-in word for "Communism" which is a stand-in word for "Evil". Other examples in American history includes "N-word"* and "Injun").
It sometimes seems like American society as a whole hasn't gotten over the Cold War yet, much less the McCarthy years.
Should an American feel slighted by my characterisation of American society, then welcome to the fold. That's how I feel about that article.
*Note that I can't even use the actual word without fear of having my entire post deleted. That fact alone speaks volumes.
I don't see why... I mean we all know what you mean, you put the burden of guilt on us for thinking the word, while you get to cheap out and not say it...
it's just a way white people have gotten around to say it.
Make Dolls Great Again
Clover/Trump 2016
For the United Shelves of America!
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The Purge 
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5.500 
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