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First of all you got to discuss with your opponent how a psy shreik actually works.
Secondly, it's not really so devastating out of an accident above average roll.
Thirdly, a sorc is primarilly a source of invisibility. Withfires ain't too reliable and tend to be shortranged. And regular sorcs do invisibility better due to being cheaper and having a spell familliar to cast on fewer dice and have the same ammount of generated powers (useful ones). They also have access to bikes, mounts, termie armor and relics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I recall a thread where we've tried to figure out how to use Ahriman more or less effectively. It wasn't that easy.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/626462.page

 Quickjager wrote:
...how sure about that are you? I remember something about them and Slaneesh...

EDIT: here we go http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Miriael_Sabathiel I WILL GIVE THOUGH IT SAYS ONE! ONE! Has ever fallen.

So you think that it is ridiculous that sisters are incorruptible yet it is okay for your gey knights to be? Double standard much.

Well the GK aren't as strong as everyone thinks since the Changelling managed to spread the seed of doubt into the mind of one... (ok, he didn't make a chaos GK but doubt is the first step to heresy...)

But no, Ahriman isn't cheesy. If used right he can be quite good, though.

yeah! We might finally get the grey knights out of the game then.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 changerofways wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I love my Ahriman, she really holds the centre of my line, but I wouldn't call her broken even when she is backed up by four Thousand Son squads and a Divination sorcerer

She?...

I don't actually run a Thousand Sons army. I run an Order of Dusk army using Thousand Sons rules. So yes. She. My 'Arhiman' is actually Magistra Aeronwy Gesh of the Order of Dusk.



So take your self-righteous sarcasm and stick it in your scrapbook.

I'm not sure if I would call what I said as self-righteous sarcasm. It was more of me assuming you didn't know my favorite fictional character's gender. Now I see that you just use his ruleset, and have your own fiction you use, in which the character is a woman, so lets all just be happy and if you could not insult me

As was mentioned earlier, Ahriman as a singluar entity is not cheesy. One krak missile in the face, smoosh.

However, in a psychic-spam list with daemon summoning, and he becomes a might more frustrating to engage, particularly when used as a "psychic battle bus."

He's "okay" against hordes, but when fighting an elite army, throw him in a rhino, drive up in the movement phase, unload a dizzying amount of firepower which can cut through almost any unit in the game, and then drive the rhino backwards in the shooting phase.

He's the bane of infantry armies, but won't do squat against a mechanized list, and will probably die without making his points back. Against someone with a bunch of terminators, mega-nobs or MCs, or an assault army in general? It can get quite disgusting.

The local 1ksons player likes to refer to his two shooting phases, with the first often being the more devastating. His Fire Raptor, havocs and raptors with melta guns are just icing on the cake, used to kill those things which can get Ahriman out of MEHTAL BAWKS and such.

That being said, he's still less cheesy than your average Farseer on a jetbike, he just stands out now as being one of the, if not the most powerful offensive psyker in the game, especially considering how otherwise useless he was in 6th and earlier, and how 1ksons remain quite mediocre as well.

If he was an Eldar character, people would be losing their gak.

DaPino wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
I think he means 3 lv1 sorcs.

Yeah I know he means that. Doesn't change the fact that his comparison is just bad.
He's talking about sorcerers with spell familiar being superior to Ahriman, then goes on to tell Ahriman costs more than 3 sorcerers while 'forgetting' to mention these sorcerers are marginally worse than Ahriman.
3 ML1 sorcerers with spell familiar are cheaper than Ahriman (5 points cheaper), there's truth to be found in that statement, but he is ignoring every other aspect of Ahriman and putting their ability to cast psychic shriek in a vacuum.

Yes certain configurations for sorcerers will be better than Ahriman, but he's making him out to be far worse than he actually is.

Of course he's putting Ahriman's ability to cast Shriek in a vacuum - that's apparently the only reason he's "broken."

Meanwhile, 3 sorcerers have twice as many wounds as Ahriman, can be 3 places at once, and can reroll their casting dice.



This sounds like a case of, "some guy schooled me using Ahriman...Ahriman must be cheesy!"

Indeed. He's a long way from 'broken'.

He is good. The ability to triple-tap with a witchfire - whichever witchfire it ends up being - is good, but he only works as part of an army designed to support him.

Firstly - as noted, smacking the enemy with three witchfires will need somewhere between six and twelve warp charge for confidence. That means that to get the most out of him you're using all of his warp charge and all of the pool, and quite possibly stealing the rest of your army's too.

At the same time, letting rip with the right three witchfires can scare the bezeesus out of people. 3 armour-piercing, poisoned 4+ templates can slaughter packed marines who didn't expect it...

Don't underestimate his other advantages, though. Automatically getting Master of Deception is a very nice advantage, potentially allowing you to really change up your deployment options, and - if you're not taking thousand sons squads - you should also note that unlike other sorcerors, he's fearless.

Finally, as one of only two mastery level 4 psykers, he can stomp incoming psychic power very efficiently.

 changerofways wrote:

I'm not sure if I would call what I said as self-righteous sarcasm. It was more of me assuming you didn't know my favorite fictional character's gender. Now I see that you just use his ruleset, and have your own fiction you use, in which the character is a woman, so lets all just be happy and if you could not insult me

Don't assume I'm an idiot, and I won't insult you. Deal?

I think your both acting silly and making assumptions.

There are significantly cheaper/tougher/more efficient ways of doing what Ahriman does. He (or she, last I checked the official stance was that the model and the lore aren't actually connected to the rules) may be cool and he may be useful for force concentration but he isn't exactly broken.

The only reason I take Ahriman over a normal ML3 sorc w/spell familiar and AoDG is to make my t-sons troops.

You could do that by making your ML3 Sorc MoT.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Well the GK aren't as strong as everyone thinks since the Changelling managed to spread the seed of doubt into the mind of one... (ok, he didn't make a chaos GK but doubt is the first step to heresy...)

But no, Ahriman isn't cheesy. If used right he can be quite good, though.

except we dunno what happened after. for all we know it amounted to "gee I wonder if it's wrong to do this...... naaah how silly of me"