Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'.

Riptides

Surely Wave Serpents are the best example.

There are plenty of examples. Best one honestly would be the Heldrake. Subpar and bland codex that got no end to the grief for having ONE amazing unit.

Yes. Out of the billions of people on this planet at this exact moment, you're the only person that truly feels disappointed with the new codex.

On topic, I don't understand the disappointment. Almost all the units got buffs one way or another, the formations are pretty badass (I plan to use the Judicator and Destroyer ones on my competitive lists now, since there's so much that can be done), and the army has hit the balance point between the feel of the 3rd Edition Codex and the 5th Edition Codex.

You know what, I have nothing personal against you but i think you should sell your necron army. If you are complaining about a dex that is tournament worthy (nightscythe spam) then I think you need to quit. You can use that money to buy a new army or restart a new necron army.

Dude... the codex is fine, better than fine actually. The biggest nerf was MSS and I admit I am waiting for other Necron players to start whining about losing them. The codex is competitive, fluffy with the Formation to end all Formations and to boot I can already see Necron foot-hordes coming back with a vengeance, that will totally be a fun AND close match.

EDIT: Can I buy your army? 20% MRSP my best offer.

That's a typical reaction to changes. Panic.

Je, so we are in that time of the year... again

Mysterious, soulless, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were cool.

Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were a little less cool.

Reasonable, intelligent, talkative, diplomatic Egyptian Space Terminators are lame.


In short, the Newcrons were a downgrade in 5th Edition. They way they were presented in the Shield Your Baals books is worse than that.

Melevolence wrote:
I understand they are good, but the question still stands: Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'. Yes, they will win games. All books tend to have a unit that does that. Wraiths might be the new 'cheese', but, I dunno if it will make the dex helplessly unbalanced.

Hey, they are almost copy paste TWC, but the difference is that TWC have one more attack, one less strenght and have to pay for the 3++, but a standar calvary model with the SS is like 50 ppm, so i dont find them so overpowered

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Mysterious, soulless, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were cool.

Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were a little less cool.

Reasonable, intelligent, talkative, diplomatic Egyptian Space Terminators are lame.


In short, the Newcrons were a downgrade in 5th Edition. They way they were presented in the Shield Your Baals books is worse than that.

M-Matt? Is that you!?

Melevolence wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Mysterious, soulless, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were cool.

Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were a little less cool.

Reasonable, intelligent, talkative, diplomatic Egyptian Space Terminators are lame.


In short, the Newcrons were a downgrade in 5th Edition. They way they were presented in the Shield Your Baals books is worse than that.

M-Matt? Is that you!?

I think you may be confused, child. Mat Ward wrote the "Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators" that I said "were a little less cool".

The cool Necrons were written by the Andys and Phil Kelly.

I'm glad to see bits and pieces of the oldcron codex making a comeback. The nerf to the resorb was a bit weird to me, why not let it keep it's +1 to RP and make Crypteks have the ability to reroll failed RP once per game?

Loss of Semp Weave? No biggie to me, we didn't have access at all to a 2+ armor save in the Oldcron codex
Phase shifter a 4++? Okay, that's what it was in the oldcron dex (though it was weird then that wraiths were also equipped with phase shifters but got a 3++)
Yeah, destroyers lost their 12" move but regained their ability to JSJ (yes, they had it before) which is good to me (PLUS now they have 2 wounds!)
Heavy Destroyers back into Heavy Support? Just as it should be.
Veil of Darkness a relic? Guess what, Oldcrons could only take 1 back in the day too! (though the one use only irks me a bit)
Scarabs now have the Oldcron disruption fields built in, not too shabby (though sure, a nerf from the Wardcron's Entropic Strike)

Lychguard are stronger, Wraiths are just getting stronger and stronger (miss your Oldcron Wraiths with WBB? There's a formation granting them RP), The MSS nerf we all knew was coming, The Annihilation Barge may have been overly nerfed but is still useable, The Doomsday Ark became stronger and cheaper, Flayed Ones are once again useable, Praetorians are stronger, Triarch Stalkers can be taken in squadrons and got a little nifty sidegrade, The scythe nerfs we knew were coming and it wasn't really even that bad, the Decurion Detachment is optional and has plenty of cool buffs within it, RP got an overall buff... etc.

If I didn't have school, work and a chaos army in the (re)making, I'd get right back into Necrons. I'm pretty happy for Necrons right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Mysterious, soulless, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were cool.

Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were a little less cool.

Reasonable, intelligent, talkative, diplomatic Egyptian Space Terminators are lame.


In short, the Newcrons were a downgrade in 5th Edition. They way they were presented in the Shield Your Baals books is worse than that.

M-Matt? Is that you!?

I think you may be confused, child. Mat Ward wrote the "Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators" that I said "were a little less cool".

The cool Necrons were written by the Andys and Phil Kelly.

Don't forget Pete Haines, and Graham McNeill

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Mysterious, soulless, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were cool.

Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators were a little less cool.

Reasonable, intelligent, talkative, diplomatic Egyptian Space Terminators are lame.


In short, the Newcrons were a downgrade in 5th Edition. They way they were presented in the Shield Your Baals books is worse than that.

M-Matt? Is that you!?

I think you may be confused, child. Mat Ward wrote the "Less mysterious, intelligent, angry Egyptian Space Terminators" that I said "were a little less cool".

The cool Necrons were written by the Andys and Phil Kelly.

Phil Kelly was involved in writing the fluff for Shield of Baal.

1. It's a nerf.
2. Necron deserved it.
3. Hurray !
4. I doubt they were nerfed enough though. I'll have to read that dex soon.

morgoth wrote:
1. It's a nerf.
2. Necron deserved it.
3. Hurray !
4. I doubt they were nerfed enough though. I'll have to read that dex soon.

I think they got more buffed than nerfed. And the nerfs were things that were too powerful before anyway.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'.

Riptides

Surely Wave Serpents are the best example.

There are plenty of examples. Best one honestly would be the Heldrake. Subpar and bland codex that got no end to the grief for having ONE amazing unit.

You forgot the ML3 Iron Arm Endurance Daemon Prince with spell familiar, wings and black mace. Or burning brand of Skalathrax which is like a Heldrake but wounding on 4+.

Or Forgefiends who average 4 S8 hits with each volley.

Or Plague Bikers.

Or Blastmaster Noise Marines deleting your SMurfs in cover from halfway across the board.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'.

Riptides

Surely Wave Serpents are the best example.

There are plenty of examples. Best one honestly would be the Heldrake. Subpar and bland codex that got no end to the grief for having ONE amazing unit.

You forgot the ML3 Iron Arm Endurance Daemon Prince with spell familiar, wings and black mace. Or burning brand of Skalathrax which is like a Heldrake but wounding on 4+.

Or Forgefiends who average 4 S8 hits with each volley.

Or Plage Bikers.

Or Blastmaster Noise Marines deleting your SMurfs in cover from halfway across the board.

4/5 overpowered units does not a good codex make.

only one of those four units is actually tournament-level competitive (the DP, and then chaos daemon princes are better), and none of them are overpowered.

Natalya wrote:
only one of those three units is actually tournament-level competitive, and none of them are overpowered.

4/5 okay units definitely do not a good codex make.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Natalya wrote:
only one of those three units is actually tournament-level competitive, and none of them are overpowered.

4/5 okay units definitely do not a good codex make.

So what do the Eldar have, besides the Wave Serpent and Warp Spiders? The Knight is too costly and can easily get one-shotted by grav, their flyers are glass cannons and the seer council isnt what it once was.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

Natalya wrote:
only one of those three units is actually tournament-level competitive, and none of them are overpowered.

4/5 okay units definitely do not a good codex make.

So what do the Eldar have, besides the Wave Serpent and Warp Spiders? The Knight is too costly and can easily get one-shotted by grav, their flyers are glass cannons and the seer council isnt what it once was.

I don't know why this is aimed at me?

Well the consensus on dakka seems to be Eldar, Tau and Daemons are top tier codexes while DA and CSM are low tier, but its funny how the top tier codexes are praised for a handful of auto-take units while the same handful of good units principle in the case of CSM does not make a good codex, according to you.

 King Pariah wrote:

Yeah, destroyers lost their 12" move but regained their ability to JSJ (yes, they had it before) which is good to me (PLUS now they have 2 wounds!)

In what edition? They definitely did not get that rule in 3rd ed.
In 3rd ed they were just jet bikes.

Yeah, I did notice a bunch of oldcron-like stuff coming up.
The new entropic strike is basically a disruption field.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Well the consensus on dakka seems to be Eldar, Tau and Daemons are top tier codexes while DA and CSM are low tier, but its funny how the top tier codexes are praised for a handful of auto-take units while the same handful of good units principle does not make a good codex, according to you.

I don't think Eldar is an overly good codex. It's a powerful, competitive codex, but that doesn't make it well written, for the reasons you described.

Tau is more rounded, I think. A lot more balance internally. There's a difference between top tier codex and well written codex.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In 3rd ed they were just jet bikes.

Didnt jetbikes have the 6" assault move rule or was it only Eldar jetbikes?

 Sir Arun wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
In 3rd ed they were just jet bikes.

Didnt jetbikes have the 6" assault move rule or was it only Eldar jetbikes?

Only Eldar jet bikes. Because Eldar.
In 4th ed, anyway. Though I have the 3rd ed necron codex, I started just when 4th ed wh40k was released.

So, OP units got brought down and the junk units got a boost.
Sounds like balance to me.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:

Yeah, destroyers lost their 12" move but regained their ability to JSJ (yes, they had it before) which is good to me (PLUS now they have 2 wounds!)

In what edition? They definitely did not get that rule in 3rd ed.
In 3rd ed they were just jet bikes.

Yeah, I did notice a bunch of oldcron-like stuff coming up.
The new entropic strike is basically a disruption field.

A little while before the wardcron dex dropped, there was a FAQ/errata that said necron destroyers moved like eldar jetbikes.

Bah, I must have missed it then. That would have been handy.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Well the consensus on dakka seems to be Eldar, Tau and Daemons are top tier codexes while DA and CSM are low tier, but its funny how the top tier codexes are praised for a handful of auto-take units while the same handful of good units principle in the case of CSM does not make a good codex, according to you.

Obviously, because the Eldar good units are a bit better than the CSM good units, and also because it's impossible to make a 1850 point single source army with CSM that does not suck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jackal wrote:
So, OP units got brought down and the junk units got a boost.
Sounds like balance to me.

Indeed.

I'll have to review the whole dex before I say that, but for now, just knowing that Scythes and Annihilation Barges got the bat, as well as all the crappy ones getting buffs comforts me in the idea that "yes, GW is working hard on the balance of 40K".

With regard to the nerf to Tesla, it makes me more than a little depressed that Annihilation Barges are no longer useful anti-air. Frankly, it was nice to have anti-air stuff that wasn't a) crap against everything else *cough* Hydra *cough* or b) an aircraft itself.

Also, whilst it *might* have been reasonable for the Tesla Destructor (still not convinced)... what about all our other Tesla? What's the point of even taking Tesla elsewhere? You have to trade Rapid Fire (i.e. twice the shots at close range), AP4 *and* the Gauss rule for a few more shots at 24", and no benefit whatsoever when snapshotting. I don't see the appeal.