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 astro_nomicon wrote:
Don't you have to choose between RP or relentless each turn though? Or do they just get all of that?

No just one out of three.

But those three are: RP, Fleet and Shred.
They always have MtC (lolwut?) and Relentless.

Kangodo wrote:
But those three are: RP, Fleet and Shred.
They always have MtC (lolwut?) and Relentless.

Oh damn. You do at least have to choose between whip coils and trans beamers, yes? Or do you just not have to make any decisions with the new Wraith formation?

Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

I guess GW is not play testing. Too bad.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Talon of Anathrax wrote:
I know that points wise it isn't always that effective, but couldn't a Mace Prince murder Wraiths? Or a least not die and eventually kill them all.

Ah well... In the last edition my solution to wraiths was generally Baledrakes and Vindicators, but that probably won't work any more now :(

I'd stick with Vindicators. For every three Wraiths you can get under the template one's getting IDed out.

They still get 3++ AND a 5+ RP from an id hit. A vindicator shot that lands on 3 is only likely to kill 66% of one wraith. Granted it will be dead if it fails the two rolls, but you're not making up the huge point difference very fast if you're taking out a single 43 point model on a GOOD vindi shot. It also means your tank is within 24", and is at high risk.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Don't you have to choose between RP or relentless each turn though? Or do they just get all of that?

The formation grants the units therein (So 1 unit of Scarabs, 1 unit of Wraiths, and a single Spyder) Move through Cover and Relentless. They have those all the time. Then, each of the controlling player's turns, you pick one of Shred, Fleet, or Reanimation Protocols and that is applied to the Scarabs or the Wraiths only if they are within 12" of the Spyder.

Requizen wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Don't you have to choose between RP or relentless each turn though? Or do they just get all of that?

The formation grants the units therein (So 1 unit of Scarabs, 1 unit of Wraiths, and a single Spyder) Move through Cover and Relentless. They have those all the time. Then, each of the controlling player's turns, you pick one of Shred, Fleet, or Reanimation Protocols and that is applied to the Scarabs or the Wraiths only if they are within 12" of the Spyder.

That's exactly the rule.
Gives decursion and optional formations therein synergy which is hard to beat.

Requizen wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Don't you have to choose between RP or relentless each turn though? Or do they just get all of that?

The formation grants the units therein (So 1 unit of Scarabs, 1 unit of Wraiths, and a single Spyder) Move through Cover and Relentless. They have those all the time. Then, each of the controlling player's turns, you pick one of Shred, Fleet, or Reanimation Protocols and that is applied to the Scarabs or the Wraiths only if they are within 12" of the Spyder.

Thanks for the clarification

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

Buy ALL DA IMPERIAL KNIGHTS!

I don't know what others think, but I can see a strong Necron army only including 1 Canoptek Harvest and still being scary. The new, buffed 4+ RP Wraiths are probably the single best "Deal With It" unit damn near ever. Either A.) the opponent has to focus quite nearly all of his firepower into the SINGLE unit of wraiths to hope to finish them or B.) the opponent largely ignores them in favor of shooting either the spyder or the rest of the Necron army. If A.) that's ~ 1600 pts of Necrons left unscathed as they march into their optimal range. If B.) a fully functional unit of murderbots has just reached your lines and will continue to mulch through it unless you have a dedicated CC unit of greater value, which the murderbots will, in all likelihood, neuter by the time you finish killing them.

They don't really give you a lot of choices.

 Desubot wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

Buy ALL DA IMPERIAL KNIGHTS!

As far as I can tell at this point, Wraiths are one of our best unit against Imperial Knights. Though, still not amazing against it.

Indeed, IK's are a way to counter Wraithwing, but it's more difficult for the Knights to come on top than it was before.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Indeed, IK's are a way to counter Wraithwing, but it's more difficult for the Knights to come on top than it was before.

Meh. Lancers have a 5++ in CC so any rends that get through might be countered. Alternatively, volume of fire from a Castigator and even in CC with it's S10 deflagrate attack aren't terrible (though at I2).

 agnosto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Indeed, IK's are a way to counter Wraithwing, but it's more difficult for the Knights to come on top than it was before.

Meh. Lancers have a 5++ in CC so any rends that get through might be countered. Alternatively, volume of fire from a Castigator and even in CC with it's S10 deflagrate attack aren't terrible (though at I2).

Well that and if you really wana get silly you could always chuck a forewarning, power field, invisibility on and drink necron P envy tears (psychic )

When all the power gamers turn up at tournaments with a necron army full of wraiths... They may as well roll a dice to see who wins the game.

On a serious note though, allied in group of wraiths for counter charge duties.

 Desubot wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Indeed, IK's are a way to counter Wraithwing, but it's more difficult for the Knights to come on top than it was before.

Meh. Lancers have a 5++ in CC so any rends that get through might be countered. Alternatively, volume of fire from a Castigator and even in CC with it's S10 deflagrate attack aren't terrible (though at I2).

Well that and if you really wana get silly you could always chuck a forewarning, power field, invisibility on and drink necron P envy tears (psychic )

Pure Knights or go home!

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
When all the power gamers turn up at tournaments with a necron army full of wraiths... They may as well roll a dice to see who wins the game.

On a serious note though, allied in group of wraiths for counter charge duties.

Baseline Wraiths are good, but not nearly as good as with the Formation and Decurion. And as has been said, it's very hard to spam them in that situation.

TAU PLAYERS DON'T READ THIS

Not very good allies for Tau because of the Reclamation Legion tax. Although you could be really evil and do a Decurion Detachment with the RL and the CH and then bring in the Fire Base Cadre formation of 6 broadsides and 1 riptide.

PanzerLeader wrote:
Not very good allies for Tau because of the Reclamation Legion tax. Although you could be really evil and do a Decurion Detachment with the RL and the CH and then bring in the Fire Base Cadre formation of 6 broadsides and 1 riptide.

You don't need the Reclamation Legion. All of the Necron Formations can be taken as normal Formations, but if part of a Decurion they get the extra bonuses (+1RP and semi-IWND on Heavy/Superheavy vehicles). So yes, you can just take Canoptek Swarm in any list.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

Some factions will beat Wraiths in combat, and some shoot them to death fairly easily. A few Wave Serpents or a unit of Broadsides will drop them down to a manageable size pretty quickly.

 DarkLink wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

Some factions will beat Wraiths in combat, and some shoot them to death fairly easily. A few Wave Serpents or a unit of Broadsides will drop them down to a manageable size pretty quickly.

Requiring a bit more than 7 HITS before killing one wraith? (double that for the 4+++)

good luck man. though they do have the best chance at range,.

On the bright side: if it is a tournament and it is the match before lunch you should have plenty of time to get food where ever you want in town.

 DarkLink wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

Some factions will beat Wraiths in combat, and some shoot them to death fairly easily. A few Wave Serpents or a unit of Broadsides will drop them down to a manageable size pretty quickly.

A unit of three missilesides, with markerlights bumping their BS to 5, and giving them smart-missile systems as well, will put

35/36 x 5/6 x 1/3 x 1/2 x 12 = 2100/1296 = 1.62

+

35/36 + 1/2 x 1/3 x 1/2 x 12 = 420/432 = 0.97

=

2.59 wounds on a squad of wraiths with 4+ RP.

Yeah shoot the spyder instead.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

I guess GW is not play testing. Too bad.

Well wernt people complaining assault didnt have a place in Shoothammer?

Keep your assault out of my shoothammer!

Personally I think GW was overcompensating for having reduced wraiths' effectiveness on the charge via taking out the S6 Hammer of Wrath, which I suspect they did to increase the difference between them and Praetorians.

Remember, you don't necessarily have to kill the spyder. You could also tank shock it back a bit (if he's hanging out right at that 12" mark) or bait the wraiths into charging too far forward.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Honestly the only half-decent pieces of stratagy I've seen here are "tarpit it" and "get the spider first"

Getting the spider is not that easy. and not every faction has decent tarpit units.
What are they supposed to do?

The wraiths WILL land a turn 2 assault. they WILL wipe out anything they touch, and they WILL survive to do the same on turn 3, and 4.


I'm struggling to try figure out what were GW thinking there, and seriously hoping there is a day 1 faq about them like missile drones had....

Wraiths have never wiped out anything they touch man.

Let's be real here, without 4 anni barges and 3 ccb's (the former versions) a decurion wraithwing isn't worth the trouble. I've tried to make lists to abuse double harvest, they have no ranged presence. Durable? Ya but they'd better be because they are the only targets. Specifically the spyder but the wraiths are game too if packing s10 or D. The spyder can also be interdicted by complete throw away units very easily. Then what? Do the wraiths slow their roll to stay in range? They get shot either way.

The formation is amazing but it needs guns or all out assault. I just don't see an army getting enough of either trying to spam wraiths from decurion.

Manticores put out a lot of S10 attacks