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If your anything like me, you will roll a handfull of 2's and wander why the dice gods hate you so much

 luke1705 wrote:

Fragile wrote:


The numbers should not be that high. Rerolling ones gives you about a 26% to fail the armor save. And then you have a 42% to fail the RP roll on the 4+ rerolling ones. That should work out to about 11% fail rate.

Actually they are. He didn't even take into account re-rolling 1's. Chance to fail a 3++ re-rolling 1's:

I roll a 2 - fail - .16666

I roll a 1, AND I roll a 1 or a 2: - .166666 * .333333 = . 0555

.1666 + .0555 = 22.2% chance of failure, or roughly 78.8 % save rate. You are correct about the 42% fail rate for RP when re-rolling ones, so that would be .222 * .42 = .093 or roughly 90.7 % success rate

Like I said 10 posts up, out of 18 saves you fail 1.667 instead of 1 as claimed. 9.3% of wounds go through. It's a lot weaker than a 2+ re-rollable, but it's a little stronger than a pure 3+ re-rollable.

Has anyone tried running the Doombringer Flight formation?

I'm considering it outside Necrons/Decurion as AA.

Speaking of which, if you ignore Crew Stunned from a Decurion Detachment's Living Metal for a Flyer and you roll Immobilised on the damage chart (but subsequently roll a 3-6 and pass)m would you just ignore the effects of the pen (aside the Hull Point loss)?

 adamsouza wrote:
If your anything like me, you will roll a handfull of 2's and wander why the dice gods hate you so much

That definitely happened to me the first time I ran this. It's because it's been too long since I've played Khorne and the blood god demands sacrifice

so a nice little decurion orikan death star army at 1850 could look like this

reclamation:
overlord w WS, PS, RO

Immortals w Guass, Night scythe

10x lychguard w Sword n board (orikan, cryptek, obyron, O/lord here)

6x tombblades w guass, nebuloscope, shield vanes

10x warriors in GA

20x warriors (Zandrehk goes here

Auxilery

5x deathmarks

Royal court
Orikan
cryptek w solar staff
vargard
Zandrehk

death star in their back field with the obyron jump and a big clump of walking doom walking down the middle and tomb blades down the middle to harrass anything that decides to come forward

 Therion wrote:
Like I said 10 posts up, out of 18 saves you fail 1.667 instead of 1 as claimed. 9.3% of wounds go through. It's a lot weaker than a 2+ re-rollable, but it's a little stronger than a pure 3+ re-rollable.

Ok soooo....

100 wounds are caused
3++ armour save - saves 66.6 wounds
33.33 wounds are left

Averages state that of the 33.33 wounds that are left half of them will be 1's
Re-rolling 16.66 saves with a 3++ saves another 11.1 wounds

33.33 - 11.1 = 22.23 wounds remaining
4+++ RP saves half of those wounds meaning 11.11 wounds are left

So they have an 88.9% chance to save every wound..

Re-rollable 2+ save is a 97% chance to save a wound? - Question is that build an invulnerable save? also points wise how does that stack up? Do they get that save with D weapons?
Re-rollable 3+ is exactly the same? - Also is there a build where that is an invulnerable outside of the necrons?

I'm just thinking all though the maths are for a 2+ re-roll able in practise is it actually tougher when you consider what is hitting it?

I don't understand the point of running an Orikan star list in a Decurion. You have so many points invested into a royal court, plus the reclamation legion. And they probably won't have the D lord with them for preferred enemy because that's a large points investment also (the destroyer formation). And you'll already be getting the 4+ RP in any unit with Orikan in it.

I don't know, maybe I'm just jaded and think that the list-buidling flexibility offered by a standard CAD is as big of a boon to it as the obsec is. I feel like you can stick Orikan or a Cryptek into whatever units are important, thus granting them the same 4+ RP.

Also, a strategy that has not been mentioned that I've been wondering about:

Can a Cryptek from the Conclave of the Burning one leave the unit? Maybe you just want to have more crypteks. Turn one you're probably going to deep strike, but couldn't you divorce the second Cryptek from the squad before that and have him join whatever other unit you want? Seems like a good way to flirt around the HQ restrictions without self-ally if it works

 luke1705 wrote:
I don't understand the point of running an Orikan star list in a Decurion. You have so many points invested into a royal court, plus the reclamation legion. And they probably won't have the D lord with them for preferred enemy because that's a large points investment also (the destroyer formation). And you'll already be getting the 4+ RP in any unit with Orikan in it.

I don't know, maybe I'm just jaded and think that the list-buidling flexibility offered by a standard CAD is as big of a boon to it as the obsec is. I feel like you can stick Orikan or a Cryptek into whatever units are important, thus granting them the same 4+ RP.

I'm with you on that one, I don't like the Decurion (outside of a couple of formations) It's too restrictive for me. As soon as I'm done with the Reclamation (which isn't too bad) I want to add unit's that I need a tax for all the time.

Go CAD and add a Crpytek to unit's you need to survive IMO

The decurion is fun and all, but has anyone tried going vehicle heavy and making an oldschool AV13 wall?

I've build a list but haven't had the chance to run it.

Though a 5 AV14 Decurian is possible at 1850 I believe.

Couple of things on that Orikan Star. Most iterations are going to be majority T5, giving them an advantage over many 2++ stars that are majority T4.

Also, any of your 2+ AS Lords are going to be relentless tanks against any firepower less then AP 2. With any thing from a 98.6% to a ludicrous 99.3% save rate with a popped Res Orb, these guys are serious.

My thinking is bookend a couple of these guys on some WS LG:

Normal CAD

Zandy

10 WS LG

RC
Olord+Nightmare Shroud+Phase Shifter+Phylactery+Res Orb
Obyron
Orikan
Cryptek+Chronomotron+Solar Staff

925

Honestly, even with Oby, I'd pop them all in an NS for good measure.

So, yeah, half your list, lol. But go big or go home, IMHO. That crew would just eat anything it touches, and it's very inconvenient to take down via shooting. Of course, as other's have pointed out, normal deathstar restrictions apply. Fourtunatly, though, Crons do MSU pretty well other wise. You could toss in 9 HDS and 3x5 TBs into that list without too much trouble, plus a couple Immortal squads or something.

I wanted a second res orb. As an alternate drop Oby and get a Reslord + WS instead.

It's actually pretty easy to do with the Decurion because of the Annihilation Nexus and Death bringer formation but if i were to do a "normal" AV13 wall you'd have to bring along some Triarch Stalkers, their to good to pass up.

Bargelord w/ Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Res Orb (180)
Elites
1 Triarch Stalkers (125)
1 Triarch Stalker (125)
Troops
10 Immortals w/ Ghost Ark (235)
10 Warrior w/ Ghost Ark (235)
F. Attack
3 Wraiths w/ Whip Coils (129)
3 Wraiths w/ Whip Coils (129)
1 Destroyer Upgrade H. Destroyer (50)
H. Support
1 H. Destroyer (50)
1 H. Destroyer (50)
1 H. Destroyer (50)
Annihilation Nexus (410)
2 Annihilation Barges
1 Doomsday Ark

Enjoy shooting at all the small MSU Lascannons w/ 2 W a piece that can bounce behind things and keep up with the Stalkers. I'm sure someone can come up with a better one though but AV13 w/ multiple MSU is annoying as gak. Great I gotta shoot all these or I can try and kill 1 guy.

omerakk wrote:
The decurion is fun and all, but has anyone tried going vehicle heavy and making an oldschool AV13 wall?

My current think on AV13 wall is both Arcs got a discount, so that seems to really push them ahead of the now expensive AB, although I wouldn't be above taking some,

Hmm...

CAD

Chronotek + Solar Staff

20 x Warriors
10 x Warriors + GA
10 x Warriors + GA
10 x Warriors + GA

FA
5 x Wraiths

HS
Doomsday Arc
Doomsday Arc

Annihalation Nexus
2 Annihilation Barges
1 Domsday Ark

1990


That's a pretty solid start, I would think. 8 AV 13 hulls and 30 AV 13 HPs, and in the middle really tough brick.

I just realized I totally whiffed on the CCB. You could totally swap the Wraiths for one without too much trouble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, good list Hollisman. I was reaching for the HDs at first myself but kind of had to swap my hand away as they've been appearing in almost all my lists, now. I love those guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Man, that list kind of has me excited. 3 Doomsdays would be hell of fun to play.

Maybe throw the normal CAD ones in the corners and throw the formation guy smack in the middle with the ABs, and probably pair a Ghost Arc with each one for some cover.

Also, those Gauss Flayer Arrays though! If you play a fast opponent that likes to move around a lot your Gauss shots could peak well north of 100 some turns. That will force some WS to Jink to save their skins.

Hollismason wrote:

Troops
10 Immortals w/ Ghost Ark (235)

Immortals cannot buy, and cannot ride in a ghost ark. Drop to 5 guys, and make it a night scythe.

-Matt

ShadarLogoth wrote:

omerakk wrote:
The decurion is fun and all, but has anyone tried going vehicle heavy and making an oldschool AV13 wall?

My current think on AV13 wall is both Arcs got a discount, so that seems to really push them ahead of the now expensive AB, although I wouldn't be above taking some,

Hmm...

CAD

Chronotek + Solar Staff

20 x Warriors
10 x Warriors + GA
10 x Warriors + GA
10 x Warriors + GA

FA
5 x Wraiths

HS
Doomsday Arc
Doomsday Arc

Annihalation Nexus
2 Annihilation Barges
1 Domsday Ark

1990


That's a pretty solid start, I would think. 8 AV 13 hulls and 30 AV 13 HPs, and in the middle really tough brick.

I just realized I totally whiffed on the CCB. You could totally swap the Wraiths for one without too much trouble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, good list Hollisman. I was reaching for the HDs at first myself but kind of had to swap my hand away as they've been appearing in almost all my lists, now. I love those guys.

Thanks here are my changes I like your list and didn't consider the Doomsday Arks, but still I really think that Annihilation Barges are a good Vehicle.

Why not just go crazy??

Bargelord w/ Phase Shifter, Warscythe

Elites
2 X Triarch Stalkers
2 X Triarch Stalkers

Troops
10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark (235)
10 Warriors w/ Ghost Ark (235)

1025

H. Support
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
D Ark

Formation
Anniliation Nexux (410)

12 AV 13 Vehicles , 2 ST 10 Blasts , 8 ST8 AP2 Shots, 36 ST 7? 60 Gauss, the Bargelord.

I keep forgetting, what does Primary Weapon do again, Re-roll to Pen?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

12 AV 13 Vehicles , 2 ST 10 Blasts , 8 ST8 AP2 Shots, 36 ST 7? 60 Gauss, the Bargelord.

My only concern with that list is do you think the Stalkers are efficient enough without really taking advantage of their aura? I mean, a two shot MM is nothing to sniff at, but it's a little pricey at 125. Don't get me wrong, paired with infantry they are super hot.

I think if I as going pure AV 13 I would rather have 2 barge lords and maybe an extra loaded GA then the Stalkers? Although, at least one for a little Melta support is definitely considerable, and if he had nothing to buff he probably wouldn't attract a whole lot of attention.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Decurion style ::

CCB

GA + 10
GA + 10
5 x Immortals
3 TBs

Formation
Annihilation Nexus (410)

Formation
Annihilation Nexus (410)

Formation
Annihilation Nexus (410)

Heh. That...actually doesn't look two unplayable either. 6 ABs, 3 DAs, 2 GAs, and a CCB? Pewpewpew.

Yea that does see rather playable.

The stalkers are really begging to be next to some destroyers. Heavy or not, they're both loving it. Personally I think I'd go for 2/3 heavy destroyers. 275 points gets you a stalker and 3 of those bad boys. That's pretty solid ranged firepower, especially with preferred enemy. That is also great for the to-wound roll. A re-rollable anything but will net you a wound pretty much always, and when you fail to glance with a las cannon, you're rolling a 1 more than you think.

Yeah I'm not to sold on Regular Destroyers but H. Destroyers are crazy with a Triarch. The reason I think the Triarchs are great is that'll they will draw fire , so cover is good for them but also people will ignore them as well and you'll just keep shooting them with 2 AP2 shots a turn.

Yeah, I've said this a couple times in this thread but regular D's outside the formation around a Stalker are pretty decent, inside the formation they shoot up considerably, though. Grabbing rerolls on top of both your 5/3 shots and your Gauss makes a pretty massive difference, to where they are even threatening flying hive tyrants pretty okay.

Anyone run a stalker before? Wondering what the best loadout is, since by the time it's in melta range it's always dead for me.

Was thinking about the gauss cannon, but H.destroyers just do that better, so anyone try the blast out to any success?

Punisher wrote:
Anyone run a stalker before? Wondering what the best loadout is, since by the time it's in melta range it's always dead for me.

Was thinking about the gauss cannon, but H.destroyers just do that better, so anyone try the blast out to any success?

The Melta is the best load-out.

As we were discussing AV 13 I started rolling around AV 14 spam lists in my head for fun.

I kind of see two ways to go about it.

One in a normal CAD + Livng Tomb ::

Zandy

5 x Immortals
5 x Immortals
5 x Immortals
5 x Immortals

FA
5 x Gauss + Nubolscope + Shield Vanes TBs
5 x Gauss + Nubolscope + Shield Vanes TBs
1 x HD

HS
Mono
Mono
1 x HD

Living Tomb
Obelisk
Mono
Mono

1950

Something like that? 22 AV 14 HPs? Might be worth a go. I was thinking the Tomb Blades would be the best way to take advantage of the living Tomb ability, You could use that essentially 24+the width of the Mono's bubble around the Obelisk to near guarantee rear angles on vehicles. Come to think of it, that might be a reason to go Beamers instead.

I'll have to play around with it, bit it would be pretty comical to watch someone try to whittle that down. I mean, a couple suicide melta squads might get one or two of your hulls if they get lucky, but then what are they going to do, S7/6 spam you to death?

 Sasori wrote:

Punisher wrote:
Anyone run a stalker before? Wondering what the best loadout is, since by the time it's in melta range it's always dead for me.

Was thinking about the gauss cannon, but H.destroyers just do that better, so anyone try the blast out to any success?

The Melta is the best load-out.

The problem with the Melta is that the Stalker needs to be close, which probably means a dead Stalker.

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Punisher wrote:
Anyone run a stalker before? Wondering what the best loadout is, since by the time it's in melta range it's always dead for me.

Was thinking about the gauss cannon, but H.destroyers just do that better, so anyone try the blast out to any success?

The Melta is the best load-out.

The problem with the Melta is that the Stalker needs to be close, which probably means a dead Stalker.

No it doesn't. .2 Strength 8 AP 1 shots even without the melta bonus is going to crack a good chunk of vehicles, from 24' away.

You have to have serious amour target saturation to get such a high priority target within 24" without it being shot to death.

Punisher wrote:
You have to have serious amour target saturation to get such a high priority target within 24" without it being shot to death.

AV 13 isn't that easy to crack. In addition, if you are using the stalker for it's target relay, nearly all units that benefit from it have a range of 24' or less.... So it's either going to be within 24', or it's going to be a waste of points.

Punisher wrote:
You have to have serious amour target saturation to get such a high priority target within 24" without it being shot to death.

Well, sort of. But what's good at shooting Stalkers, also tends to be your best bet at shooting the stuff around it, too. At the very least they are an added layer of protecting on your HDs and what nots. Like and AV 13 Void Shield that you are choosing to shoot at.

I sometimes set up my stalker on it's back and roll it's legs into a spider fetal position at the start of the game to save time.

Always the first thing to die.

I have a feeling Stalkers are going to stop being the first thing to die once people start bringing Doomsday Arks. 72" range S10 Ap1 large blasts are a lot more scary than a couple of melta shots.

I like this as an AV wall, unless you play Obelisks as worthless pieces of scenery with no decent fire arcs on their guns (in which case bring a Stalker and some wraiths):


1845pts
Necrons: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment)
HQ
Catacomb Command Barge
Quantum Shielding, Tesla Cannon
Overlord
Warscythe

Troops
Warriors
Ghost Ark
2x Gauss Flayer Array, Quantum Shielding
10x Necron Warrior
10x Gauss Flayer
Warriors
Ghost Ark
2x Gauss Flayer Array, Quantum Shielding
10x Necron Warrior
10x Gauss Flayer

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array, Quantum Shielding
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array, Quantum Shielding
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array, Quantum Shielding

Lords of War
Obelisk
4x Tesla Sphere

Necrons: Codex (2015) (Formation Detachment)
Formation
Annihilation Nexus
Annihilation Barge
Quantum Shielding, Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor
Annihilation Barge
Quantum Shielding, Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array, Quantum Shielding