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2016/03/04 03:57:33
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
You were clear the first time, and I was amazed that Cruz said it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/04 04:21:02
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/03/04 04:25:52
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Ah, that's what I thought. What an amazingly puerile thing for a presidential candidate to say in a debate.
To be fair, 3/4 of the people on the stage were reliably puerile, and the 4th still stooped to that level every so often. So while the count to 10 things is childish etc, it's hardly a stand out moment of such behaviour from this debate.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2016/03/04 04:31:50
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
I was just waiting for Trump to whip out little Trump and say "it's huuuuge" when he was defending the size of his penis. On a televised debate stage. For the President of the United States of America. Let that sink in.
Really, it sort of makes the "people like you well enough, Hillary" putdown look downright genteel.
Help me, Rhonda. HA!
2016/03/04 04:45:49
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
motyak wrote: To be fair, 3/4 of the people on the stage were reliably puerile, and the 4th still stooped to that level every so often. So while the count to 10 things is childish etc, it's hardly a stand out moment of such behaviour from this debate.
That's the point exactly. It's characteristic of most debates, and all the recent debates.
Does anyone else remember the Republicans as the party of adults? What the hell has happened? I think we've all watched the march down the line in to hardright crazy stuff, but the childishness and stupidity? That's come hard and fast.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gordon Shumway wrote: I was just waiting for Trump to whip out little Trump and say "it's huuuuge" when he was defending the size of his penis. On a televised debate stage. For the President of the United States of America. Let that sink in.
Really, it sort of makes the "people like you well enough, Hillary" putdown look downright genteel.
I just went and looked this up. Incredible. Forget all that stuff about the count to 10 nonsense. 'Little Marco'. 'Big Donald'.
This is a real thing that happened.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/04 04:52:29
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/03/04 04:55:29
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It was a response to a jab Rubio made about the size of Trumps hands earlier this week. Trump assured us we have nothing to worry about in that regard. It's a story that goes way back with him and is pretty hilarious, give it a read: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/10/graydon-carter-donald-trump
motyak wrote: To be fair, 3/4 of the people on the stage were reliably puerile, and the 4th still stooped to that level every so often. So while the count to 10 things is childish etc, it's hardly a stand out moment of such behaviour from this debate.
That's the point exactly. It's characteristic of most debates, and all the recent debates.
Does anyone else remember the Republicans as the party of adults? What the hell has happened? I think we've all watched the march down the line in to hardright crazy stuff, but the childishness and stupidity? That's come hard and fast.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gordon Shumway wrote: I was just waiting for Trump to whip out little Trump and say "it's huuuuge" when he was defending the size of his penis. On a televised debate stage. For the President of the United States of America. Let that sink in.
Really, it sort of makes the "people like you well enough, Hillary" putdown look downright genteel.
I just went and looked this up. Incredible. Forget all that stuff about the count to 10 nonsense. 'Little Marco'. 'Big Donald'.
sebster wrote: Does anyone else remember the Republicans as the party of adults? What the hell has happened? I think we've all watched the march down the line in to hardright crazy stuff, but the childishness and stupidity? That's come hard and fast.
Trump's influence. He's been openly running a mockery of a campaign, been caught in a dozen outright lies and contradictions and debuted his first televised debate by essentially telling the RNC to go feth itself. ... and it's all worked to his advantage.
My guess is that at this point the remaining candidates feel that emulation is their best path to victory. Trying to remain mature and above-the-nonsense certainly didn't save any of the numerous candidates who've since dropped out of the race.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/04 06:54:48
2054/06/27 17:55:40
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Nate at 538 made an interesting observation...
Trumps only won 1 of the 4 "closed" primary. He vastly underperformed in all those 4 states.
There's 34 states left to vote and 29 of those states are the closed primary variety.
I didn’t see Nate’s exact comment, but your summary isn’t quite right. Trump has only lost two primaries, and one of those was Texas. The other states he lost were caucuses. There’s a big difference between caucuses and closed primaries.
Not saying it isn’t an issue for Trump, it could well be. And this race is far from over for lots of reasons, just pointing out the error. I’d be interested in seeing Nate Silver’s original comment, if you can link to it.
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BlaxicanX wrote: Trump's influence. He's been openly running a mockery of a campaign, been caught in a dozen outright lies and contradictions and debuted his first televised debate by essentially telling the RNC to go feth itself. ... and it's all worked to his advantage.
My guess is that at this point the remaining candidates feel that emulation is their best path to victory. Trying to remain mature and above-the-nonsense certainly didn't save any of the numerous candidates who've since dropped out of the race.
Possibly, but then the big question is what has happened to the voting base of the Republican party that so many voters have responded positively to his nonsense campaign?
And if other candidates follow his lead, where is that going to take the base in future?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/04 07:39:41
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/03/04 08:27:59
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
sebster wrote: Does anyone else remember the Republicans as the party of adults? What the hell has happened? I think we've all watched the march down the line in to hardright crazy stuff, but the childishness and stupidity? That's come hard and fast.
Trump's influence. He's been openly running a mockery of a campaign, been caught in a dozen outright lies and contradictions and debuted his first televised debate by essentially telling the RNC to go feth itself. ... and it's all worked to his advantage.
My guess is that at this point the remaining candidates feel that emulation is their best path to victory. Trying to remain mature and above-the-nonsense certainly didn't save any of the numerous candidates who've since dropped out of the race.
You can say 'Trump's influence', but from an outsiders perspective the door to this has been opening for the last fifteen plus years.
Trump just happens to be the first cartoon to dance through. The fact that it's 'Trump' is both highlighting and hiding what has become pretty standard behaviour over that time. As with everything he does it's a caricature, but I think it's naive to pin this whole clown show on him.
2016/03/04 09:04:08
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Breotan wrote: The Republican primary is like watching clowns climb out of and back into their clown car. Except the car is on fire.
This made me lol.
I think the problem is Trump. His biggest success in his life has been as reality TV star of The Apprentice. This has taught him that posturing and posing is more successful than actual facts and policies, because as "the talent" everyone else on the crew just agrees with him as long as the ratings are good.
You get a guy with that background into a serious political debate and he's going to drag it down to a lower level because he isn't capable of doing anything else.
The problem is that at the end of it all, you really want someone for president, head of state, supreme commander of the armed forces, and leader of the free world, who's got more qualities than a reality TV star.
But I believe I am preaching to the choir in saying this.
I think the GOP has *nearly* always been an immature, bullying, name calling, obstructionist, freakshow of a party.
Donald has finally brought them out of their shell and exposed them to the world....candidates, voters, office holders, etc.
Like a vile caterpiller they have metamorphisized into the horrible butterfly they had always been waiting to become...that ugly little creature just hiding beneath the skin is finally emerged.
I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
2016/03/04 15:56:47
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
TheMeanDM wrote: I think the GOP has *nearly* always been an immature, bullying, name calling, obstructionist, freakshow of a party.
Donald has finally brought them out of their shell and exposed them to the world....candidates, voters, office holders, etc.
Like a vile caterpiller they have metamorphisized into the horrible butterfly they had always been waiting to become...that ugly little creature just hiding beneath the skin is finally emerged.
I love this post. It's beautiful in how hilariously unbiased it is.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2016/03/04 16:11:15
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Well, considering they are stating an opinion of their own beliefs, why would you expect it to be unbiased? Yes, it is biased, but that's not really the point at all.
I believe that in the past decade or two, the GOP has become in my eyes, a byword for bad politics and obstructionist. I also firmly believe that, while they have many policies I want to agree with (namely financial conservatism, social policies I lean to the left), the way they conduct their politics makes me wholly dislike them and that they would be better off scrapping themselves to the ground and getting actual politicians and statesmen back into its ranks.
Yes, I am biased, but yeah. I'm not a news source, either. Sooooooooo....
Who says I can't be biased?
Notice you didn't say I was *wrong*
I am an independent thinker and voter.
I vote for the person that best matches my beliefs regardless of party affiliation.
The GOP happens to have very little to offer me as a voter...and have for many, many years...due to this thinly veiled "thing" that I have felt lurking beneath the surface....a thing that is now fully on display for the world to see.
There are certainly things wrong within the Democratic party as well...I am not blind to that. It"s why I didn't vote Obama his 2nd term...it's why I won't vote Hillary should she be the nominee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/04 16:34:30
I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
2016/03/04 16:49:39
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Yes America. This is the man that would be your king. Jebus fething wept.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2016/03/04 17:01:38
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Nate at 538 made an interesting observation...
Trumps only won 1 of the 4 "closed" primary. He vastly underperformed in all those 4 states.
There's 34 states left to vote and 29 of those states are the closed primary variety.
I didn’t see Nate’s exact comment, but your summary isn’t quite right. Trump has only lost two primaries, and one of those was Texas. The other states he lost were caucuses. There’s a big difference between caucuses and closed primaries.
Not saying it isn’t an issue for Trump, it could well be. And this race is far from over for lots of reasons, just pointing out the error. I’d be interested in seeing Nate Silver’s original comment, if you can link to it.
Cruz won Texas and Oklahoma. Oklahoma is a closed primary with voting not caucus format.
Here are Silver's last 2 articles and his most recent podcast. He makes a lot of good points supported with interesting data and I would make an attempt at summarizing them but that's a bit of a daunting task on my phone.
Two days ago, I was re-watching the HBO John Adams drama series,
and there's this brilliant scene where the founding fathers are discussing breaking away from Britain, and it's killing them to even think about turning their backs on the country they love...
They just want their rights as Englishmen to be respected, and then a message turns up from King George which basically says I'm gonna hang every one of you mutha fethers
and you can see the founding fathers' reaction, as their hearts are crushed, and they're forced to go to war against the country they love to protect their rights...
Now, this is not news to American dakka members, but when I think about the risks those men took to win their freedom, and then you fast forward a few hundred years and see Donald Trump talking about his manhood...
You wonder why the founding fathers even bothered to get out of bed
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/03/04 18:13:57
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
and there's this brilliant scene where the founding fathers are discussing breaking away from Britain, and it's killing them to even think about turning their backs on the country they love...
They just want their rights as Englishmen to be respected, and then a message turns up from King George which basically says I'm gonna hang every one of you mutha fethers
and you can see the founding fathers' reaction, as their hearts are crushed, and they're forced to go to war against the country they love to protect their rights...
Now, this is not news to American dakka members, but when I think about the risks those men took to win their freedom, and then you fast forward a few hundred years and see Donald Trump talking about his manhood...
You wonder why the founding fathers even bothered to get out of bed
I've devoted a large amount of my reading lately to colonial America and the Revolutionary War period. It does hurt me at times to see the state of our politics today...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/04 18:17:51
Full Frontal Nerdity
2016/03/04 18:20:34
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/03/04 18:55:29
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Yes America. This is the man that would be your king. Jebus fething wept.
Even more ridiculous that no one's talking about this:
Someone ought to tell Trumpie that the Military *will not* follow illegal orders.
The thing is, I can sort of understand why he would be for torture and murder. It's "Tough on Terrorists" taken to reducto ad absurdum. You can be an effective leader and have no moral compass.
But feeling the need to defend the size of your Lil' Drumpf on the national stage? That's looney tunes. There's no way he can be taken seriously by the statesmen of the world.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2016/03/04 19:12:14
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
In 1935, Sinclair Lewis published It Can’t Happen Here, a novel today more referred to than read, which imagined fascism coming to the U.S. The movement’s leader is Buzz Windrip, a populist demagogue who promises “to make America a proud, rich land again,” punish nations that defy him, and raise wages very high while keeping prices very low. Advertisement
You can’t read Lewis’ novel today without flashes of Trumpian recognition. Windrip is a demagogic huckster, “an inspired guesser at what political doctrines the people would like,” who understands how to manipulate the media and considers the truth an irrelevancy. His constituency of economically dispossessed white men moos at his xenophobic nationalism and preposterous promises. After he wins the 1936 election, Windrip moves to assert control over the press, lock up his opponents, and put competent businessmen in charge of the country.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/04 19:12:32
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2016/03/04 20:10:56
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Washington (CNN)Republican front-runner Donald Trump said Friday that he would not order the U.S. military to violate international laws to fight terrorism, a stark reversal from his statements at Thursday's Republican debate.
Trump said in a statement that he understands "that the United States is bound by laws and treaties" and said he would "not order our military or other officials to violate those laws and will seek their advice on such matters."
He added, "I will not order a military officer to disobey the law. It is clear that as president I will be bound by laws just like all Americans and I will meet those responsibilities."
The statement was first reported in The Wall Street Journal.
His position seems to have shifted dramatically in less than 24 hours.
During Thursday night's debate on Fox News, Trump reaffirmed his willingness to target the families of terrorists and supported the use of waterboarding, implying a willingness to use torture. "We should go for waterboarding and we should go tougher than waterboarding," he said.
His previous endorsement of these tactics had drawn condemnation from former defense and intelligence officials.
Trump rips four-star general
Trump rips four-star general 01:14
Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen told CNN Thursday that "the notion that we would attack and kill the families of terrorists is something that contravenes everything the United States stands for in this world."
Cohen warned that if the military carried out these orders, they could face a Nuremberg-like trial, saying, "we have to be concerned about that you have an order given by the commander in chief which violates every sense of law and order, international law and order, that would make any of those who carried out that dictum such to be a violation of the international criminal code."
And former CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden, speaking of Trump, told HBO this week that "if he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act."
"You are required not to follow an unlawful order. That would be in violation of all the international laws of armed conflict," Hayden said.
curran12 wrote: Donald Trump reverses position on torture, killing terrorists' families
Because of course he did.
None of this matters to his supporters though, because, you know... he tells it like it is.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/03/04 20:40:59
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
