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 Sasori wrote:
Objectivly, they are a lot stronger.

The change to RP alone is a major buff, compounded on Multi-wound models that have the rule.

We saw some (Warranted) Points increases on the Abarge, and Night scythe.

The nerfing of MSS, no more Weave, and the Phase Shifter is now a 4++...

That being said, everything else is a pretty huge buff. Even Wraiths got buffed, now being T5 for only 5 points more.

Nearly everything is Viable in the codex now, there really aren't a lot of bad options (Besides the new MSS and a few Special Characters)

A lot of Units got Point Decreases, buffs or a combination of the two.

Probably the most Solid codex released in a very long time.

Seconded.

Moreover, the Decursion detachment is really solid giving an RP bonus.

Wraithwing is viable as is Destroyerwing and even Tombbladewing.

Flayed ones... so good now.

Kangodo wrote:
I do not see it as a nerf.
They went from lowering AV to auto-glancing on a 6.

It is objectively a nerf, since the lowered AV was counted before armor pen rolls.

The Void Blades have rending... It is going to be VERY rare when it wouldn't already glance, thanks to rolling a rend.

DaPino wrote:
Can anyone tell me how Anrakyr the traveller changed?

I've read that his 'Mind in the machine' rule has been changed to 12" one use only.

Not one use only, but 12", only works on a 4+, doesn't ignore crew stunned/shaken and picks a random weapon. Crap, basically.

Wasnt Anrakyr on a CCB pretty OP before? I mean the generic CCB already is a tough sob, then put Anrakyr on top who takes control of enemy vehicles and you just cant go wrong. So yeah, he did deserve the nerf - he still works well on VIndicators and such though.

Oh and Portal of Exile got nerfed too.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Wasnt Anrakyr on a CCB pretty OP before? I mean the generic CCB already is a tough sob, then put Anrakyr on top who takes control of enemy vehicles and you just cant go wrong. So yeah, he did deserve the nerf - he still works well on VIndicators and such though.

Oh and Portal of Exile got nerfed too.

No, because you couldn't use his ability from the CCB, and then later couldn't use him on a CCB at all.

 Sasori wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
I do not see it as a nerf.
They went from lowering AV to auto-glancing on a 6.

It is objectively a nerf, since the lowered AV was counted before armor pen rolls.

The Void Blades have rending... It is going to be VERY rare when it wouldn't already glance, thanks to rolling a rend.

Scarabs couldn't do anything to Super Heavies before, now they can. They can also hurt Monstrous Creatures meaning they no longer have a bad match up with Nids if they're in your list.

As for Void Blades I think the idea is that you can still glance even if your Rend fails to roll high enough to glance or pen meaning there are less bad match ups for them as well.

Which nids are T7?

None are in the Dex, not sure about the more recent releases.

They nerfed everything that was above average good in the last codex, and then buffed pretty much everything else.

Necrons are now even harder to kill than they were before, but lost all the crazy good attacks they had.

The changes will drive sales for previously underperforming units. We will see more Tomb Blades, Destroyers, and Lychguard fielded than we ever have previously.

So necron armies will now spam destroyer lords and wraiths , or will the barge overlords still be used ?

The decurion givith and taketh. Just got the book, very restrictive but offers great benefits. I think though I will be sticking with the CAD or the mephrit dynasty force org.

Makumba wrote:
So necron armies will now spam destroyer lords and wraiths , or will the barge overlords still be used ?

Actually, you may see Flayed One spam more often than Wraith spam. Against anything T7 or less, Flayed Ones bring the pain.

 buddha wrote:
The decurion givith and taketh. Just got the book, very restrictive but offers great benefits. I think though I will be sticking with the CAD or the mephrit dynasty force org.

Agreed, the Decurion brings a lot of cool things, but there are a lot of taxes built into it.

Flayed Ones rise...

a scarab swarm of 6 bases stil rapes a land raider in a single turn. They got nerfed, but not hard.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
So necron armies will now spam destroyer lords and wraiths , or will the barge overlords still be used ?

Actually, you may see Flayed One spam more often than Wraith spam. Against anything T7 or less, Flayed Ones bring the pain.

 buddha wrote:
The decurion givith and taketh. Just got the book, very restrictive but offers great benefits. I think though I will be sticking with the CAD or the mephrit dynasty force org.

Agreed, the Decurion brings a lot of cool things, but there are a lot of taxes built into it.

The Wraith formation has a lot of subtle balances built in too:
1. There is only one Spyder
2. You can't use all the powers at once meaning either the Wraiths have to move slower, or the Spyder needs to Fleet to keep up instead
3. Scarab tax with more expensive bases

So yeah, despite how strong it can be, it's not a bad formation.

 Byte wrote:
Flayed Ones rise...

Yes. After 2 editions, Flayed Ones are finally usable.
I just need to get more of the 3rd ed metal ones.

Did anyone check the fluff in both the old and new Necron books? Did they copy-paste paragraph after paragraph or is it all a new re-write?

I remember the Eldar codex e.g. being a lot of copy pasta

DaPino wrote:
a scarab swarm of 6 bases stil rapes a land raider in a single turn. They got nerfed, but not hard.

That is not correct.

Current rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 20 hit (67% hit), 3 Glance (16%)
Old rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 20 hit (67% hit), 10 Glance (50%)

Charging Scarab has 5 attacks, 3.35 (67%) will hit, .536 (16%) will glance
Land Raider has 4 hull points (4 divided by .536 = 7.46), so you need 8 scarab bases to take out a Landraider, on the charge, 50% of the time.

Old Scarabs has 5 attacks, 3.35 (67%) will hit, 1.675 (50%) will glance.
3 Old School Scarabs could take down a landraider 50% of the time, on the charge.

* Fixed Mathammer Error

So what your math is saying Adam is that they're more balanced points wise than they used to be?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So what your math is saying Adam is that they're more balanced points wise than they used to be?

Yes. They are defintiely more balanced now for their points.

While this is an appropriate change, it is still a considerable nerf in their effectiveness against armor.

6 bases of scarabs would have to not miss at all, or be very lucky and roll twice as many 6's than average to damage to take out a land raider in a single round.
If we are willing to embrace statistical improbabilities like that, a single scarab base is capable of destroying a landraider, if all it's attacks hit and glance.

One little disappointment it's not huge is that necron warriors have to be in a minimum squad of 10.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Did anyone check the fluff in both the old and new Necron books? Did they copy-paste paragraph after paragraph or is it all a new re-write?

I remember the Eldar codex e.g. being a lot of copy pasta

There is alot of new artwrok which is nice - a few bits and pieces which are new to me at least:

eg: Architects of theri own outcast status, the Nekthyst Dynasty are widely regarded as traitors by the other dynasties for acts of betrayal during the Wars of Succession. They have, however, found unlikely allies in he younger races, much to the disdain of their kin.

Previously it was a subject of "discussion" if Necrons could be corrupted by Chaos - now its certain they are not immune:
919.M41 The Daemons Tomb - The Daemon Prince Shukketh Voidmaw infects the tomb world of Vorketh with the taint of Chaos. Vorketh's regent awakens to find his crypts transformed and his legions aleady locked in battle.

Shield fo Baal campaign mentioned

Quite a few mentions of the issues of their long sleep - inlcuding the madness that many (most) lords have succumbed to in greater or lesser degrees.

Nice map of the Necron empire which spreads ut even beyond "known space"

No mention I could see of Imotekh's "issues" with Orks or the Black Templars

 adamsouza wrote:

DaPino wrote:
a scarab swarm of 6 bases stil rapes a land raider in a single turn. They got nerfed, but not hard.

That is not correct.

Current rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 15 hit (50% miss), 2 Glance (16%)
Old rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 15 hit (50% miss), 7 Glance (50%)

You need 10 bases of the new scarabs (200 pts), to take out a Land Raider (250pts), on the charge.
10 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 50 attacks, 25 hit (50% miss), 4 Glance (16%)

Wouldn't 67% of their attacks hit instead of only 50%?

Smeg, your right.

I'll edit the original post.

 Tyran wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

DaPino wrote:
a scarab swarm of 6 bases stil rapes a land raider in a single turn. They got nerfed, but not hard.

That is not correct.

Current rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 15 hit (50% miss), 2 Glance (16%)
Old rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 15 hit (50% miss), 7 Glance (50%)

You need 10 bases of the new scarabs (200 pts), to take out a Land Raider (250pts), on the charge.
10 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 50 attacks, 25 hit (50% miss), 4 Glance (16%)

Wouldn't 67% of their attacks hit instead of only 50%?

Either way, you still need a lot more scarabs to do the job now than you needed before. And they still die hard to high strength weapons.

Definitely nerfed the Scarabs against armor, but in return we got a 33% price hike and a 16% chance to wound MCs.

Scarabs will do worse against high toughness monstrous creatures than they do against AV because of the MC's armro saves will negate some of wounds.

Personally, I feel the nerf to entropic touch was enough, and the points bump unwarrented.

 adamsouza wrote:
They nerfed everything that was above average good in the last codex, and then buffed pretty much everything else.

Necrons are now even harder to kill than they were before, but lost all the crazy good attacks they had.

The changes will drive sales for previously underperforming units. We will see more Tomb Blades, Destroyers, and Lychguard fielded than we ever have previously.

I think the same holds for a C'Tan.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

DaPino wrote:
a scarab swarm of 6 bases stil rapes a land raider in a single turn. They got nerfed, but not hard.

That is not correct.

Current rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 15 hit (50% miss), 2 Glance (16%)
Old rules 6 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 30 atacks, 15 hit (50% miss), 7 Glance (50%)

You need 10 bases of the new scarabs (200 pts), to take out a Land Raider (250pts), on the charge.
10 bases, 5 attacks each on the charge, for a total of 50 attacks, 25 hit (50% miss), 4 Glance (16%)

Wouldn't 67% of their attacks hit instead of only 50%?

Either way, you still need a lot more scarabs to do the job now than you needed before. And they still die hard to high strength weapons.

Although now they are useful against superheavies.

Scarabs are the one sore point I have with codex. I fully expected entropic strike to go away and the "on roll of 6" trigger is also standard procedure.
If that was the only change, I would be "ok" with it. However, a 33% increase in cost makes zero sense. They are incredibly easy to kill and will, unless taken in larger groups then before, not be able to kill anything of note. They were always a sacrificial unit that might, if you got really lucky, tie up a more expensive unit for a turn.
They didn't gain any new bonus against T1-6, being able to strip a wound or hull point off the tougher guys will only rarely come up, and they made them less effective against ap - by giving the a 6+ armor.
They really are objectively worse and are a terrible deal for their points. I consider them such a staple of the Necron army (both fluff and tactics wise) that it's a real shame their only use will be to unlock a formation now.