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Gotta be a 100% honest here - When I hear that a codex is almost univeraslly good from most people, I fear that the codex in question is too powerful, whereas, when the community is either lukewarm or simply disliking a new book, I believe it must be a great book, because many people are angry that their usual, powerful cheese-lists are invalidated. Call me a cynic and I wouldn't stop you.

I guess we'll see. Games weren't won on Sempiternal Weave alone.

Unless...unless you attach an IC to the scarabs and have him soak up wounds and pass low AP ones on to the scarabs.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Flayed Ones rise...

Yes. After 2 editions, Flayed Ones are finally usable.
I just need to get more of the 3rd ed metal ones.

Fortunately I have 30 metal Ones. Need 10 more I guess.

I think 30 are more than enough.
It would be hard to come up with a list where I need 40.

You can fill those 30 with Lychguard, C'tans, Wraiths and Praetorians if you want a melee list.

Are meleecrons good?

I'm beginning to like the Triarch Praetorians - 2 attacks base now, 3 on charge, all S5 AP2 I2 (so strike before powerfists), so a small 5 man unit will do upto 15 attacks on the charge, 7.5 hits, 5 AP2 wounds. They can also get a S5 AP2 volley off at 6" or less (which is doable, given that they are jump troops), so add another 3.33 hits and 2.22 AP2 wounds to the list, making it 7.22 AP2 wounds coming from a single 5 man unit. Pretty sweet, I'd say.

Their range is actually 12", which makes it a lot better!
That means you can use the JP for a more reliable Charge and HoW-attacks of S5.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
I do not see it as a nerf.
They went from lowering AV to auto-glancing on a 6.

It is objectively a nerf, since the lowered AV was counted before armor pen rolls.

The Void Blades have rending... It is going to be VERY rare when it wouldn't already glance, thanks to rolling a rend.

Scarabs couldn't do anything to Super Heavies before, now they can. They can also hurt Monstrous Creatures meaning they no longer have a bad match up with Nids if they're in your list.

As for Void Blades I think the idea is that you can still glance even if your Rend fails to roll high enough to glance or pen meaning there are less bad match ups for them as well.

Entropic Strike still went off on a six against super heavies, so it was still good against them. So it is slightly better against super heavies now. Wooo.

Scarabs are still awful against Monstrous creatures, considering the MC will 99% of the time go first, and ID several bases... then the scarabs may score a wound or two, which the MC will likely save. So, I don't see how they are no longer a "Bad Match up" they are still just as terrible, they just now have a small chance to score a wound which they could if they had rolled a six on T6 anyway... in what way is that better than them having the ability to strip an armor save from the MC?

Voidblades on Pretorains never failed to wreck any sort of vehicle they went up against before, so it is a lot worse for them as well. The only time the auto-glance will ever come into play is on AV 13-14.. There is a pretty short list of how many vehicles are AV13-14 in the rear.

Once again, Entropic strike is objectively a huge nerf...

No, SHV's got some changes and their AV couldn't be reduced in any way.
So Scarabs went from useless against SHV's to 'okayish'.

Kangodo wrote:
No, SHV's got some changes and their AV couldn't be reduced in any way.
So Scarabs went from useless against SHV's to 'okayish'.

Ok, that's fair then. The last update I remember was that it required a roll to six to work.

I'll concede that then, but I'd take the old entropic strike back easily, even if it didn't do anything to SHVs.

You won't hear me complaining about the old Entropic Strike.
It's almost as if they don't even know their own armies and just browse random games to determine what needs to be nerfed or buffed.
I cannot believe they thought Wraiths need a buff while Scarabs needed to be nerfed even lower to the ground.

arent nurglings pretty much the only useful swarm in the meta now? scarabs, rippers and sky slashers are all terribad

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Gotta be a 100% honest here - When I hear that a codex is almost univeraslly good from most people, I fear that the codex in question is too powerful, whereas, when the community is either lukewarm or simply disliking a new book, I believe it must be a great book, because many people are angry that their usual, powerful cheese-lists are invalidated. Call me a cynic and I wouldn't stop you.

I guess we'll see. Games weren't won on Sempiternal Weave alone.

This is generally true.....

The fact that you're getting a ton of smiles from Necron players should in fact worry everyone.

I'm thinking this book just broke the 7th edition "balance" trend and is the first in 7th with some codex creep ( Yes even with the nerfs).

guess we will see what the next codex brings.

Why should that worry people?
Unlike popular believe, not every Necron-player used Wraiths, Night Scythes and Barges.
Not just because they don't have the models, but often because they don't like it.

I am personally smiling because 8 out of 14.000 points worth of Necrons stopped being bad.

 Sir Arun wrote:
arent nurglings pretty much the only useful swarm in the meta now? scarabs, rippers and sky slashers are all terribad

Actually no, rippers are the most useful of the swarms, although only as objective grabbers.

 BlackArmour wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Gotta be a 100% honest here - When I hear that a codex is almost univeraslly good from most people, I fear that the codex in question is too powerful, whereas, when the community is either lukewarm or simply disliking a new book, I believe it must be a great book, because many people are angry that their usual, powerful cheese-lists are invalidated. Call me a cynic and I wouldn't stop you.

I guess we'll see. Games weren't won on Sempiternal Weave alone.

This is generally true.....

The fact that you're getting a ton of smiles from Necron players should in fact worry everyone.

I'm thinking this book just broke the 7th edition "balance" trend and is the first in 7th with some codex creep ( Yes even with the nerfs).

guess we will see what the next codex brings.

Remove the decurian formations and they are much more in line with the other 7th edition books, probably still top tier but not horrible out of sync. With the decurian detachment and formations, they are likely broken. Time will tell, I get to play my first game against new necrons tomorrow.

Not broken, "Invisibility" and resultant invisible Imperial Knights and Centstars are broken.

Nothing Necron will be Invisible.

I'm really confused as to why people think Flayed Ones are good all of a sudden. Yes, they have more, better attacks, but they are still WS4, Init 2, 4+ As Elite duders. Wraiths and Praetorians are just so much better for the points, I just don't see why someone would bother with FOs, aside from Rule of Cool reasons.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
I'm really confused as to why people think Flayed Ones are good all of a sudden. Yes, they have more, better attacks, but they are still WS4, Init 2, 4+ As Elite duders. Wraiths and Praetorians are just so much better for the points, I just don't see why someone would bother with FOs, aside from Rule of Cool reasons.

For a melee troop choice they're pretty good. Also they have RP, so don't discount that.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For a melee troop choice they're pretty good. Also they have RP, so don't discount that.

They're Elite, not Troops.

The 300 point Obelisk is a really interesting anti-air solution. It causes flyers and FMC's etc... to take a Dangerous terrain test even though their rules would normally not.

Well obviously, being immobilized is real bad for flyers/FMC's.

Also, the guns are Tesla. 20 Tesla shots. wow.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
I'm really confused as to why people think Flayed Ones are good all of a sudden. Yes, they have more, better attacks, but they are still WS4, Init 2, 4+ As Elite duders. Wraiths and Praetorians are just so much better for the points, I just don't see why someone would bother with FOs, aside from Rule of Cool reasons.

Come now. that volume of attacks WILL in fact wreck almost anyones day. AP 5 is also very good.

20 tesla shots seems to be a lot.
But you have to factor in that the four tesla spheres are hull mounted.

Doesn't matter, they are on ball joints.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
I'm really confused as to why people think Flayed Ones are good all of a sudden. Yes, they have more, better attacks, but they are still WS4, Init 2, 4+ As Elite duders. Wraiths and Praetorians are just so much better for the points, I just don't see why someone would bother with FOs, aside from Rule of Cool reasons.

4 Attacks base, with shred and AP 5 with a 4+/ 5-4+ RP, with infiltrate and deepstrike for 13 ppm is pretty good....

Mathwise, they've shown to beat out anything, as long as they can hurt it. Everything from Bloodthristers to TH/SS Termies.

RE: The Obelisk, ball-mounted the tesla spheres may be, each gun still needs LoS to fire, so at best you'll only be able to get 3 of the spheres on a single unit.

Still though, mathematically an Obelisk firing just three of its spheres will generate more hits than the combined firepower of three Anni Barges, despite costing 60 points less. That's pretty decent.

 Jancoran wrote:
Doesn't matter, they are on ball joints.

Are you thinking of the monolith? The obelisk model-wise isn't a ball in socket joint none of the tesla spheres physically move.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
I'm really confused as to why people think Flayed Ones are good all of a sudden. Yes, they have more, better attacks, but they are still WS4, Init 2, 4+ As Elite duders. Wraiths and Praetorians are just so much better for the points, I just don't see why someone would bother with FOs, aside from Rule of Cool reasons.

Because they went from 4 attacks on the charge to 5 attacks.
And they gained Rending.
And RP changed to become better in CC.
Let's not forget the AP5.

People did the math.
If you charge with an equal amount in points of, let's say, Death Company (Yes, one of the nastiest assault units in the game).
The Death Company would lose.

 Sasori wrote:

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
I'm really confused as to why people think Flayed Ones are good all of a sudden. Yes, they have more, better attacks, but they are still WS4, Init 2, 4+ As Elite duders. Wraiths and Praetorians are just so much better for the points, I just don't see why someone would bother with FOs, aside from Rule of Cool reasons.

4 Attacks base, with shred and AP 5 with a 4+/ 5-4+ RP, with infiltrate and deepstrike for 13 ppm is pretty good....

Mathwise, they've shown to beat out anything, as long as they can hurt it. Everything from Bloodthristers to TH/SS Termies.

Indeed, they became an amazing unit to field.
I think you need a unit of 10 to 15 to be effective. The larger the better.

 Byte wrote:
Not broken, "Invisibility" and resultant invisible Imperial Knights and Centstars are broken.

Nothing Necron will be Invisible.

Invisibility isn't the one sole broken thing in the game. Things can be broken without it.

Maybe I'm just being stupid, but in my codex I'm only seeing Flayed Ones with 3 attacks. Where is everyone getting the 4 attacks from?

Tomin0us wrote:
Maybe I'm just being stupid, but in my codex I'm only seeing Flayed Ones with 3 attacks. Where is everyone getting the 4 attacks from?

They have 2 claws.