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I'd be inclined to allow a partial reset if I thought my opponent made a legitimate mistake deploying, but in this case it is obvious that the Tau player didn't know any other way to play, aside from park it and shoot.

But even then, I'd warn him before we started if he made an obvious tactical mistake.

So what you're saying is that he should have run the ball instead?

He should have done the usual Tau strategy of jet packing around while shooting. Let his firewarriors take the hit if they got targeted (unless he wisely gave them transports) and pick off targets with crisis suits and skimmers. The bikes would likely catch up, but they aren't something tau can't handle and if the tau player spread out properly he would only loose a few units to the main assault, while dispersing the rest to keep firing.

Makumba wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sounds like just a sore loser. If he'd not castled up in the corner he would have had a chance. Sounds like he's had too many easy curbstomps.

So what was he suppose to do spread? Tau aren't meq , just like IG, spread they die, they have a ton of support rules that work on a very short range.
I guess the dude didn't have enough plasma to kill 4 squads and didn't have enough riptides to tar pit them. And I doubt it is fun for a tau player to be stuck in constant melee for 3-4 turns, when your technicly rolling dice, but you know that your opponent has better stats and will win anyway.
Wasted time, don't see why quiting such a game would be a bad thing. I know he lost, his opponent knows he won, why play it , to roll dice?

Fire warriors might be garbage but Tau players often forget about their crisis suits. I might be odd, but I am a Tau player who is not afraid of CC. Crisis suits are hard to kill 3+/4++ can be a real pain to take out. We are base Strength 5 which means we are wounding on 3s. Against TWC or similar stat units it might be hard to get the hit, but the wounds are not the bad. Also if you are playing Farsight we could actually get 3 specialized mêlée units that are not half bad. Freight/fusion blade/Aunt'Shui.

I just played a game against Space Marines where my Commander and his bodyguard team took out two assault marine squads, only losing a few drones and a single wound on a crisis suit. Yes he rolled below average, but whatever he hit with I could make my saves. My Fusion blade commander cut through his squads.

Grouping is a losing strategy for Tau. Yes Supporting fire is great, but not as great as people think it is. I never rely on it. My usual games I am advancing and then falling back. A static gun line will lose games while a mobile force will maximize firing time. Sounds like he deployed poorly and did not understand his own army mechanics. Knowing my army, if you got that close to me and did not charge me, you're squad would not be a threat by the end of my turn.

Grouping = big edit: blob* for drop pod flamers. You played well OP don't feel bad. Sadly lots of Tau players lack ingenuity and fail to play the army properly = thinking they can just stand and shoot to win.

Makumba wrote:
yeah sure. Because when a GK player drops a centstar and 2NDKs and kills 2 out of 3 chimeras and most of my special weapon squads on the board turn 1. I should be playing him till turn 4 when he will finaly table me , so that he has fun rolling dice.

Well, yes! I mean you don't have to go to the last model standing. I'd at least give him til his 3rd turn to be sporty. Pay it forward. Next time it might be you wanting to try out some new squad that comes in from reserve, and you might be overwhelming him on turn 1.

People nowadays are so inconsiderate and selfish :/

niv-mizzet wrote:

Makumba wrote:
yeah sure. Because when a GK player drops a centstar and 2NDKs and kills 2 out of 3 chimeras and most of my special weapon squads on the board turn 1. I should be playing him till turn 4 when he will finaly table me , so that he has fun rolling dice.

Well, yes! I mean you don't have to go to the last model standing. I'd at least give him til his 3rd turn to be sporty. Pay it forward. Next time it might be you wanting to try out some new squad that comes in from reserve, and you might be overwhelming him on turn 1.

People nowadays are so inconsiderate and selfish :/

Exactly. The fair thing to do, in my opinion, would be to at least play out the first two turns. Turn one your Tau army is surrounded and boxed in? Good, that's at least one turn of pouring fire into them. Turn two they charge? Good, you get to use Supporting Fire or whatever. At least let him kill some of your models in close combat before you quit. If after your second turn 75% of your army is dead, you have no chance of going for objectives, it looks pretty hopeless, etc, yeah you may as well forfeit, but at least offer a rematch. You gave the other guy the satisfaction of handing you a solid drubbing instead of robbing him of that, but no sense in drawing it out. I'd rather get in a second game, and hopefully a much closer one.

And if somehow by the bottom of turn 2 you still have a good number of models on the board, through luck or mistakes on their part or what have you, you can keep going and maybe even squeak out a miraculous victory, all because you didn't spoil a legendary game by quitting early!

OT, can you Infilitrate AND Scout? I know there aren't a ton of units that can do that, but I though you had to use one or the other.

Wow I can't believe the nerve of someone to scoop turn 1. Like come on we just took like 30-40 minutes setting up a game, and you're just going to forfeit? Jeeez. Also to surrender to Dark Angels is pretty funny, I would definitely bring that up from time to time "Hey remember that time a Tau player surrendered turn 1 to ME? A Dark Angels player?" Good times haha.

I did an army swap game, my Eldar (4 WS, 2 WK 20 Guardians and extras) against his army (2 Flyrants, 3 Harpies/Crones Venomthrope Dakkafex brood+Warriors) On turn 1 he killed 3 of my flyers before they could lift off, and turn 2 he killed my other Hive Tyrant and ID a Harpy or Crone with a Wraithknight, I was like holy smack, this is awful, but you know what I was a sport about it and played it through. It was actually my friend who was like "Ya know Deafbeats, this is kind of a slaughter, lets call it bro." But I wasn't gonna be the one to give up.

OP don't sweat it, that dudes a jerk and i'm sorry you live in a place with not a big community :\

 jreilly89 wrote:
OT, can you Infilitrate AND Scout? I know there aren't a ton of units that can do that, but I though you had to use one or the other.

You know at first I thought that is what I read, but then I figured he just meant he scouted everything else.

But otherwise, no, you cant Infiltrate AND scout. At least I didnt think you could....can you?

Also, your opponent sounds like TFG. Honestly, I think your list should have been a pretty even match. Tau do well at shooting down units that try to charge them. If he deployed badly and you out-played him, that's his fault. You make mistakes and you learn from them, that's how you become a better player.

 jreilly89 wrote:
OT, can you Infilitrate AND Scout? I know there aren't a ton of units that can do that, but I though you had to use one or the other.

I do not think the rules state that they are mutually exclusive. The unit did not originally have the ability to infiltrate, they were given that by a random warlord trait roll. Maybe the wording would clarify. Does scout movement occur before or after infiltrators? If scout is meant to be first then no you cannot do both, but if scout is after infiltration, I see no reason why not.

Tau players typically get really mad when my dreadknights shunt and kill all their pathfinders on turn 1. I've made many quit like that. Really only tau players quit turn 1.

Only spoiled sports quit turn 1

I've made Grey Knights quit turn one after I destroyed most of their cheesy alpha strike with interceptor. How I love cheesy Grey Knight players' tears

 Xenomancers wrote:
Tau players typically get really mad when my dreadknights shunt and kill all their pathfinders on turn 1. I've made many quit like that. Really only tau players quit turn 1.

Our TFG for giving up is dark eldar. Usually when he loses a shadow field, even if it took 12+ saves to do it. Our only tau guy is my long time best friend and is always up for house rules, super heavies, or whatever you want to put on the table.

Biggest thing I noticed about this is poor tactics on the Tau player. In general most Gunline armies regardless of whatever race got hit pretty hard in the new Edition and are not nearly as good as they used to be, especially against armies like the DA player used. Had he spread out and forced him to only attack a portion of his army or even split his forces it would have worked out better for him

SGTPozy wrote:
I've made Grey Knights quit turn one after I destroyed most of their cheesy alpha strike with interceptor. How I love cheesy Grey Knight players' tears

LOL dude...shunt isn't interceptor-able.

Learning is painful sometimes and definitely not for everyone. Let this guy continue to play his boring one dimensional game with someone else.

Shaso_Keo wrote:

Makumba wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sounds like just a sore loser. If he'd not castled up in the corner he would have had a chance. Sounds like he's had too many easy curbstomps.

So what was he suppose to do spread? Tau aren't meq , just like IG, spread they die, they have a ton of support rules that work on a very short range.
I guess the dude didn't have enough plasma to kill 4 squads and didn't have enough riptides to tar pit them. And I doubt it is fun for a tau player to be stuck in constant melee for 3-4 turns, when your technicly rolling dice, but you know that your opponent has better stats and will win anyway.
Wasted time, don't see why quiting such a game would be a bad thing. I know he lost, his opponent knows he won, why play it , to roll dice?

Fire warriors might be garbage but Tau players often forget about their crisis suits. I might be odd, but I am a Tau player who is not afraid of CC. Crisis suits are hard to kill 3+/4++ can be a real pain to take out. We are base Strength 5 which means we are wounding on 3s. Against TWC or similar stat units it might be hard to get the hit, but the wounds are not the bad. Also if you are playing Farsight we could actually get 3 specialized mêlée units that are not half bad. Freight/fusion blade/Aunt'Shui.

I just played a game against Space Marines where my Commander and his bodyguard team took out two assault marine squads, only losing a few drones and a single wound on a crisis suit. Yes he rolled below average, but whatever he hit with I could make my saves. My Fusion blade commander cut through his squads.

Grouping is a losing strategy for Tau. Yes Supporting fire is great, but not as great as people think it is. I never rely on it. My usual games I am advancing and then falling back. A static gun line will lose games while a mobile force will maximize firing time. Sounds like he deployed poorly and did not understand his own army mechanics. Knowing my army, if you got that close to me and did not charge me, you're squad would not be a threat by the end of my turn.

Grouping = big edit: blob* for drop pod flamers. You played well OP don't feel bad. Sadly lots of Tau players lack ingenuity and fail to play the army properly = thinking they can just stand and shoot to win.

Yup, and the range on supporting fire is larger than you think. You can spread out a fair bit and still benefit from it.

SGTPozy wrote:
I've made Grey Knights quit turn one after I destroyed most of their cheesy alpha strike with interceptor. How I love cheesy Grey Knight players' tears

A tau player spamming interceptor, then claiming GK are cheesy for doing the one thing their army was built around.

Oh, the irony. I give it 7/10 riptides.

 Icculus wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
OT, can you Infilitrate AND Scout? I know there aren't a ton of units that can do that, but I though you had to use one or the other.

You know at first I thought that is what I read, but then I figured he just meant he scouted everything else.

But otherwise, no, you cant Infiltrate AND scout. At least I didnt think you could....can you?

Yes, you can. The rules even state which order you do them in when you have both rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
I've made Grey Knights quit turn one after I destroyed most of their cheesy alpha strike with interceptor. How I love cheesy Grey Knight players' tears

LOL dude...shunt isn't interceptor-able.

LOL, Grey Knights have a detachment that lets them DS their entire army on T1, which is subject to Interceptor fire.

I noticed I'm getting complaints that the bike infiltrate was cheese. So let's say I didn't use it. My bikes, which I always place in the center of the table, wold have done a scout move putting them about 13" from the enemy line. The termies would have dropped, been 6" from their line. Yes, I have deathwing assault and my opponent knows that, and I was too lazy to write it down so during deployment I even told him everything was coming in turn 1. Before he was deployed I said this.

I was honestly hoping for the warlord trait that lets me pin units at the start of the game, so I could limit his first turn firing capabilities. Even if I had gone with no warlord trait I still would've had turn 2 charge, with turn 1 rapid fire coming from the bikes.

If you're saying he should just forfeit this scenario, does that mean that every time I play him from now on he should just automatically forfeit? Because part of my core strategy of my army is turn 2 charge. I didn't drive half an hour for a 2 minute game.

True but what idiot is deepstriking their army either out of LOS or not deepstriking at all against a EWO list? At that point they deserve to lose, unless the other player failed to mention their list at the start.

EDIT: Pretty much king... your only hope is either him learn the error of his ways or continue having bad games where either you DON'T get the T2 charge and he wins or vice versa.

 Icculus wrote:
Well in the sense of a real battle, in a real world situation, if a general determined that a tactical mistake was made, then a full-on retreat would be considered a good idea.

So while him conceding on turn 1 was very annoying he at least could have said, "

hey, i think I screwed up my deployment a bit here and this game is going to be one-sided. You win this match. Would you mind going through the gamesetup again and we can play again?"

He'll have to actually perform a fall-back move with everything he has. I'd still play that, i guess

 Icculus wrote:
So what you're saying is that he should have run the ball instead?

Have an exault!

My thoughts on bikes being/not being vehicles.

1. Vehicles offer at least some type of physical protection that must be penetrated to destroy said vehicle(which brings up the Tau, and their monstrous creature armor...). You're just sitting on your bike in the open. Why shoot the bike when you can just kill the rider?

2. Could you imagine getting 2-4 explosion results on a bike squad!?

3. Ten Space Marine bikers with Av5-10 all around.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I noticed I'm getting complaints that the bike infiltrate was cheese. So let's say I didn't use it. My bikes, which I always place in the center of the table, wold have done a scout move putting them about 13" from the enemy line. The termies would have dropped, been 6" from their line. Yes, I have deathwing assault and my opponent knows that, and I was too lazy to write it down so during deployment I even told him everything was coming in turn 1. Before he was deployed I said this.

I was honestly hoping for the warlord trait that lets me pin units at the start of the game, so I could limit his first turn firing capabilities. Even if I had gone with no warlord trait I still would've had turn 2 charge, with turn 1 rapid fire coming from the bikes.

If you're saying he should just forfeit this scenario, does that mean that every time I play him from now on he should just automatically forfeit? Because part of my core strategy of my army is turn 2 charge. I didn't drive half an hour for a 2 minute game.

The more I think about it, the more I'm fine with the decision to concede. I don't get to play a lot of games and I'd rather write one off after a massive deployment mistake than waste two more hours in a pointless die-rolling exercise. Instead, I can probably reset and start a new game that will potentially be challenging.

 blue_crystal wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
I've made Grey Knights quit turn one after I destroyed most of their cheesy alpha strike with interceptor. How I love cheesy Grey Knight players' tears

A tau player spamming interceptor, then claiming GK are cheesy for doing the one thing their army was built around.

Oh, the irony. I give it 7/10 riptides.

I didn't say that interceptor spam wasn't cheese now did I? I did it as a retaliation as the guy was always a dick in games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
I've made Grey Knights quit turn one after I destroyed most of their cheesy alpha strike with interceptor. How I love cheesy Grey Knight players' tears

LOL dude...shunt isn't interceptor-able.

I never said it was.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I noticed I'm getting complaints that the bike infiltrate was cheese. So let's say I didn't use it. My bikes, which I always place in the center of the table, wold have done a scout move putting them about 13" from the enemy line. The termies would have dropped, been 6" from their line. Yes, I have deathwing assault and my opponent knows that, and I was too lazy to write it down so during deployment I even told him everything was coming in turn 1. Before he was deployed I said this.

I was honestly hoping for the warlord trait that lets me pin units at the start of the game, so I could limit his first turn firing capabilities. Even if I had gone with no warlord trait I still would've had turn 2 charge, with turn 1 rapid fire coming from the bikes.

If you're saying he should just forfeit this scenario, does that mean that every time I play him from now on he should just automatically forfeit? Because part of my core strategy of my army is turn 2 charge. I didn't drive half an hour for a 2 minute game.

Nope. Your list is fine, he's just TFG. Unfortunately, I'd say play him again, but tell him ahead of time you're bringing the same list. If he backs out ahead of time, well, there you go. If he packs up Turn 1, explain how frustrating it is to waste time and drive so far for nothing. Either he will get it this time or you're out of luck and know not to play him anymore.

 kingbobbito wrote:


Can you even blame the warlord trait either? Without it my termies would have just dropped 6" away from you instead of 3"

Please, anyone, explain to me why an opponent would do this. I just need some way to wrap my mind around what happened. This is definitely going to put me off from playing 40k for awhile. I've been kind. I've been forgiving. It's the same opponent that I've mentioned in two other posts, and I should have listened when everyone said not to play him. I just feel legitimately guilty that an opponent got mad at me. Did I do something wrong? Am I a bad person? I feel terrible

This isn't a 40K issue. People need to separate the game from the player. Sore losers are everywhere. and take it from me: once you get GOOD at the game, well... you'll find the ones you didn't find the first time around.

As I've talked about 100 times before and on multiple forums, there are those who like to win and those who hate losing. Be the former not the latter. and don't blame 40K for the latter.