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 Jancoran wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:


Can you even blame the warlord trait either? Without it my termies would have just dropped 6" away from you instead of 3"

Please, anyone, explain to me why an opponent would do this. I just need some way to wrap my mind around what happened. This is definitely going to put me off from playing 40k for awhile. I've been kind. I've been forgiving. It's the same opponent that I've mentioned in two other posts, and I should have listened when everyone said not to play him. I just feel legitimately guilty that an opponent got mad at me. Did I do something wrong? Am I a bad person? I feel terrible

This isn't a 40K issue. People need to separate the game from the player. Sore losers are everywhere. and take it from me: once you get GOOD at the game, well... you'll find the ones you didn't find the first time around.

As I've talked about 100 times before and on multiple forums, there are those who like to win and those who hate losing. Be the former not the latter. and don't blame 40K for the latter.

Janc, a little humility never hurts either.

Humility isn't the problem. People packing up in turn one is the problem that happened here.

This poster didn't bring a power list, got LUCKY on his Warlord trait, used it to minimal but yes real advantage and... the guy leaves?

Worse, the original poster seemed to think it was a 40K issue.

The dude was wrong for leaving. Flat wrong. And the guy who feels like he's soured on 40K is wrong too.

This is about players hating to lose. That's what that's about, and that's what I said.

And I am right. The better you are at the game, the more often these kinds of things spring up (weird coincidence or human nature? you decide). Maybe not in turn ONE but... People start "checking out", looking at their phone, and the whole nine yards so even if the game continues, it really isn't continuing is it?


But none of that is a reflection on 40K. That's just people who come to win and have no interest in the opponents fun. Once they see defeat coming, they have a choice. They can fight to the bitter end and see if they can pull it out heroically or they could at LEAST say "hey you know what: you got me. We can play this out or we can start a new game but IM willing to give it to you and say WELL PLAYED SIR". At least give the original poster the choice right?

It has nothing to do with hating or not. What will the dude get from spending 1hour or more knowing how the game ends anyway. It doesn't help with becoming a better player, it can't teach the tau player anything new and what is probably most important, it is wasting the tau player time. The DA player won, what else does he want from playing a game, why restart it if there is a chance he will again start get the same trait , while you waste another 20+min rolling random powers, changing terrain etc.

well, i guess another tau player needs to learn what Kroot are for, stopping exactly that kind of maneuver!

its not hard, with proper positioning of units, to stop deep strikes landing behind your lines (instead directing them where you want) and its also not hard to deploy your forces so your screen absorbs any infiltrate or fast moving tactics, hell, thats what a screen is for!

That being said, there are some games when it can be decided on turn 1, and past the winning player curb stomping someone over a number of turns sometimes there really isn't any point playing on, however...

I've been on the receiving end, and with obsec units, as well as playing longer than anyone expected, managed to win games with a handful of miniatures left, against an almost full strength army (go for objectives!!)

I've never liked castling up with Tau, they are such a flexible army, and, like, tau are awesome at bringing deepstrikers themselves. Nothing beats dropping in a few Monats on an IG player and vapourising his basilisks, or leman russ' with throwaway 50 point suits!

and as always, you learn more from a defeat, than you do a victory. as soon as he knew what warlord trait you had, and saw your list, your opponent, had he had a brain, would have realised what the potential outcome would be, and deployed accordingly

niv-mizzet wrote:

Makumba wrote:
yeah sure. Because when a GK player drops a centstar and 2NDKs and kills 2 out of 3 chimeras and most of my special weapon squads on the board turn 1. I should be playing him till turn 4 when he will finaly table me , so that he has fun rolling dice.

Well, yes! I mean you don't have to go to the last model standing. I'd at least give him til his 3rd turn to be sporty. Pay it forward. Next time it might be you wanting to try out some new squad that comes in from reserve, and you might be overwhelming him on turn 1.

People nowadays are so inconsiderate and selfish :/

What reserv unit? I have a 1500 IG army, he has 1500 GK one. He can chance the cent star for a third NDK, IG doesn't have reserv units. I mean I could technicly take a second vendetta , but because vet squads are 10 man and the vendettas went up in points , I would run a single russ then. Which makes no sense at all. I would have to drop it , but then I would have a void I can't replace with anything useful. Plus no reserv squads are going to help me If I know that turn 1 I get two or three ndks in the face. It is the same with eldar, I just know that point for points they out shot me, my army can't melee them and they are faster and more resilient when on objectives. Then only questions playing them is did he get invisibility off turn 1. If he did I may as well pack up, because turn 2 will be him multi charging my tanks with str 9 models follwed by my troops getting hit by serpents and DA. If he doesn't get the invisibility off I can try to kill as much of the deathstar as I can.

and as always, you learn more from a defeat, than you do a victory. as soon as he knew what warlord trait you had, and saw your list, your opponent, had he had a brain, would have realised what the potential outcome would be, and deployed accordingly

spread the fire warriors? get charged by bikes and terminators. castle up, get charged by bike and fire warriors. Tell me what is the difference. That he should have divided his army and get one destroyed and then the other one a turn or two later? What would that change in how the game ended, besides the fact that he would play a losing game longer.

If he's spread out, it will take multiple turns for the bikes to get to each unit. giving you time to shoot them.

Otherwise, the bikes can pacman their way through the Tau army by winning combat on the Tau player's turn and then charging into a new combat on their own turn. If there is more distance the Tau can guarantee at least 1 round of shooting before the bikes can charge again.

Clumping is a very bad idea in general.

 kingbobbito wrote:
If you're saying he should just forfeit this scenario, does that mean that every time I play him from now on he should just automatically forfeit? Because part of my core strategy of my army is turn 2 charge. I didn't drive half an hour for a 2 minute game.

It is absolutely your Gork-given right to assault in turn 2. GW has largely taken turn 1 assaults out of the game, and there are a few TFGs out there that think they deserve 2-3 turns of unfettered shooting before you are allowed to respond.

I just suggest, next time you play him, that you are up front with him and let him know that you will be doing everything you can to charge turn 2, and that he had better deploy appropriately.

What you said:

Makumba wrote:
It has nothing to do with hating or not. What will the dude get from spending 1hour or more knowing how the game ends anyway. It doesn't help with becoming a better player, it can't teach the tau player anything new and what is probably most important, it is wasting the tau player time. The DA player won, what else does he want from playing a game, why restart it if there is a chance he will again start get the same trait , while you waste another 20+min rolling random powers, changing terrain etc.

What I read:

There's a chance you'll win if you ever play him again so you should never play him again. Stop wasting time by playing 40k, it's easier to just decide ahead of time who won and then go home.

 kingbobbito wrote:
What you said:

Makumba wrote:
It has nothing to do with hating or not. What will the dude get from spending 1hour or more knowing how the game ends anyway. It doesn't help with becoming a better player, it can't teach the tau player anything new and what is probably most important, it is wasting the tau player time. The DA player won, what else does he want from playing a game, why restart it if there is a chance he will again start get the same trait , while you waste another 20+min rolling random powers, changing terrain etc.

What I read:

There's a chance you'll win if you ever play him again so you should never play him again. Stop wasting time by playing 40k, it's easier to just decide ahead of time who won and then go home.

Yeah, that's more or less what I got out of it. I wouldn't say stop playing 40k, but don't play people who aren't fun to play.

You didn't do anything wrong. Actually...anyone Tau tears are a welcomed beverage. I tip my glass to you Dark Angel.

 Jancoran wrote:
Humility isn't the problem. People packing up in turn one is the problem that happened here.

This poster didn't bring a power list, got LUCKY on his Warlord trait, used it to minimal but yes real advantage and... the guy leaves?

Worse, the original poster seemed to think it was a 40K issue.

The dude was wrong for leaving. Flat wrong. And the guy who feels like he's soured on 40K is wrong too.

This is about players hating to lose. That's what that's about, and that's what I said.

And I am right. The better you are at the game, the more often these kinds of things spring up (weird coincidence or human nature? you decide). Maybe not in turn ONE but... People start "checking out", looking at their phone, and the whole nine yards so even if the game continues, it really isn't continuing is it?


But none of that is a reflection on 40K. That's just people who come to win and have no interest in the opponents fun. Once they see defeat coming, they have a choice. They can fight to the bitter end and see if they can pull it out heroically or they could at LEAST say "hey you know what: you got me. We can play this out or we can start a new game but IM willing to give it to you and say WELL PLAYED SIR". At least give the original poster the choice right?

Janc, I didn't mean OP or his opponent, I was talking about you. You come off as conceited and know it all and I don't think that's an attitude that helps.

Sore losers are everywhere. and take it from me: once you get GOOD at the game, well... you'll find the ones you didn't find the first time around.

As I've talked about 100 times before and on multiple forums, there are those who like to win and those who hate losing.

Seriously. I think OP's opponent was a jerk for packing up early, but a lot of 40k players have no humility.

 jreilly89 wrote:


Seriously. I think OP's opponent was a jerk for packing up early, but a lot of 40k players have no humility.

Man children with toy solders and way to much disposable income?!?!?! IMPOSIBU

You know, I still prefer to see a Turn ZERO loss:


Tau v White Scars, Tau will get first turn.

White Scars player says he's putting *everything* in Reserves, nothing on the tabletop.

Tau player asks "You sure about that?"

White Scars player confirms "Yes."

Tau player infiltrates Kroot across the entire length of the board edge, preventing any White Scars from entering the game.

Referee: "FRAWLESS VICTOLY!!!"


That picture never gets old.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/277109.page

That face man.

What a perfect picture.

I know! It is the definitive gak eating grin.

And that is why all White Scar armies should have at least 1 tank.

The white scar T-shirt wearing player..has a very sad face....lol

Welcome to tourny play boyo!

Makumba wrote:
It has nothing to do with hating or not. What will the dude get from spending 1hour or more knowing how the game ends anyway. It doesn't help with becoming a better player, it can't teach the tau player anything new and what is probably most important, it is wasting the tau player time. The DA player won, what else does he want from playing a game, why restart it if there is a chance he will again start get the same trait , while you waste another 20+min rolling random powers, changing terrain etc.

So...give the opponent the choice. Its fun to win and you're basically stealing that from the guy. Why not at least offer a concession speech and offer to rack em up and do it again? Whats the VALUE in approaching it the way THIS guy did? Zero that I can see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Janc, I didn't mean OP or his opponent, I was talking about you. You come off as conceited and know it all and I don't think that's an attitude that helps.
Seriously. I think OP's opponent was a jerk for packing up early, but a lot of 40k players have no humility.

I knew what you were saying. I just didn't see a point in derailing a thread to "defend" myself. And I still don't. This isn't about me.

I don't know what to say to that except "Tell me where the point I was making is wrong and we can talk about it". But if all you're here to say is that you find my confidence galling, I'm not sure where that got us even if it is your impression?

The original poster has nothing to apologize for. The guy that left cares too much about losing. Find the fault in what I said just now, or agree with me. You can PM me about my confidence if you want so we can sort that out elsewhere.










Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You know, I still prefer to see a Turn ZERO loss:


Tau v White Scars, Tau will get first turn.

White Scars player says he's putting *everything* in Reserves, nothing on the tabletop.

Tau player asks "You sure about that?"

White Scars player confirms "Yes."

Tau player infiltrates Kroot across the entire length of the board edge, preventing any White Scars from entering the game.

Referee: "FRAWLESS VICTOLY!!!"


That picture never gets old.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/277109.page

That was famous. I remember that like it was yesterday.

 Guardsmen Bob wrote:
My thoughts on bikes being/not being vehicles.

1. Vehicles offer at least some type of physical protection that must be penetrated to destroy said vehicle(which brings up the Tau, and their monstrous creature armor...). You're just sitting on your bike in the open. Why shoot the bike when you can just kill the rider?

2. Could you imagine getting 2-4 explosion results on a bike squad!?

3. Ten Space Marine bikers with Av5-10 all around.

Ork buggies are vehicles. And they're taken in squadrons of 1-5. And orks are sitting on top of it in the open. Such vehicles are usually represented having AV10 all around, opentopped. And trust me, they're MUCH less durable than t5, 3+.

Makumba wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

Makumba wrote:
yeah sure. Because when a GK player drops a centstar and 2NDKs and kills 2 out of 3 chimeras and most of my special weapon squads on the board turn 1. I should be playing him till turn 4 when he will finaly table me , so that he has fun rolling dice.

Well, yes! I mean you don't have to go to the last model standing. I'd at least give him til his 3rd turn to be sporty. Pay it forward. Next time it might be you wanting to try out some new squad that comes in from reserve, and you might be overwhelming him on turn 1.

People nowadays are so inconsiderate and selfish :/

What reserv unit? I have a 1500 IG army, he has 1500 GK one. He can chance the cent star for a third NDK, IG doesn't have reserv units. I mean I could technicly take a second vendetta , but because vet squads are 10 man and the vendettas went up in points , I would run a single russ then. Which makes no sense at all. I would have to drop it , but then I would have a void I can't replace with anything useful. Plus no reserv squads are going to help me If I know that turn 1 I get two or three ndks in the face. It is the same with eldar, I just know that point for points they out shot me, my army can't melee them and they are faster and more resilient when on objectives. Then only questions playing them is did he get invisibility off turn 1. If he did I may as well pack up, because turn 2 will be him multi charging my tanks with str 9 models follwed by my troops getting hit by serpents and DA. If he doesn't get the invisibility off I can try to kill as much of the deathstar as I can.

and as always, you learn more from a defeat, than you do a victory. as soon as he knew what warlord trait you had, and saw your list, your opponent, had he had a brain, would have realised what the potential outcome would be, and deployed accordingly

spread the fire warriors? get charged by bikes and terminators. castle up, get charged by bike and fire warriors. Tell me what is the difference. That he should have divided his army and get one destroyed and then the other one a turn or two later? What would that change in how the game ended, besides the fact that he would play a losing game longer.

You're not one for tactics, are you? As an IG player myself, I'd say you need to think outside the box. Put a plasma lemun russ in reserve, field an infantry platoon with a conscript blob to screen your plasma packing vets and melta command squad. Or you could ally in inquisition or a small space marine strike force with tygurious to nullify the GK psychic powers, or an anti-psyker assasin.

 Jancoran wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Janc, I didn't mean OP or his opponent, I was talking about you. You come off as conceited and know it all and I don't think that's an attitude that helps.
Seriously. I think OP's opponent was a jerk for packing up early, but a lot of 40k players have no humility.

I knew what you were saying. I just didn't see a point in derailing a thread to "defend" myself. And I still don't. This isn't about me.

I don't know what to say to that except "Tell me where the point I was making is wrong and we can talk about it". But if all you're here to say is that you find my confidence galling, I'm not sure where that got us even if it is your impression?

The original poster has nothing to apologize for. The guy that left cares too much about losing. Find the fault in what I said just now, or agree with me. You can PM me about my confidence if you want so we can sort that out elsewhere.

Forgive me, I forgot Webster changed the meaning of Arrogance to Confidence, I'll have to alert the media. My point where you were wrong, since you want to call it that, is that OP's opponent probably had no humility and that's why he was a sore loser, as you so eloquently put it. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You know, I still prefer to see a Turn ZERO loss:

Well, that's a loss - not a forfeit

I've left a fair share of games before they were "over" and the opponent was upset I didn't play the whole game. I've learned a lot about myself and other people as a result.

1) My first ever "campaign" type thing, and literally my second game ever, was 750 points. It was designed from the ground up as a newbies night, but apparently the guy I was playing didn't get that memo. I had the Dark Vengeance starter box of Chaos stuff plus a Sorcerer I'd picked up, not knowing jack squat about the game really. Guy I played brought 2 land raiders and nothing but cultists, and a cheap Chaos Lord. I literally never had a target to shoot at the whole game. I didn't understand the value of Melta Guns and Melta Bombs at the time because again, literally 2nd game ever and also 750 points, so didn't have any. Not like you expect to run into two land raiders at that points value. Turn 3, he'd whittled my Chaos Sorcerer's squad down to the point he was up front, and then a Lascannon instant-deathed him (yay learning about that rule!) so I just said "Screw it, this game is the most boring game I've ever played, congrats you win. I'm going to go play people how are actually also new to this game so I don't get steamrolled."

Probably poor sportsmanship on my part to not shake his hand afterward but then again, it wasn't a game. My turns I literally immediately passed back to the other guy because I had no reason to move away from the objectives I got to really quick, and I had nothing to shoot at. His turns he'd literally spend about 5 minutes making sure his guys were perfectly facing my squad to make sure all the lascannons could shoot into it, even though I told him "Sure, they can all see me. Let's please just play maybe?" Such fun! I do not regret walking away from that match, and also never playing that guy again.

2) 6E Tau codex had just dropped, so I didn't know anything about it. Also, still pretty new at this point. Guy I'm playing didn't really talk to me before the game, so I play my Dark Angels the way I had been. Much like the OP in this particular thread, bikers, scout move, deep striking terminators. I had no idea basically his entire army had interceptor. He killed roughly 750 points of my models, on my own turn. Turn two, he killed my black knights so I literally had no way of hurting his Riptides anymore so I just conceded. Mind you, the game only took maybe 30 minutes to get to this stage so my opponent gave me this really confused "Huh? Why you quitting so early?" look. I was really calm about the whole thing, for the record, and so was he. Just one of those "This got pointless in a hurry" things where neither of us had fun because it was just over so quick.

3) Also against Tau. I was letting a friend try out his slick R'varna Battlesuit model he'd just finished painting because it was awesome and at this point I didn't mind losing because I expected that every game, so what's rules still being experimental? I made the mistake of saying "I'm not too worried about it," before the match began because against regular Riptides at this point, I'd kind of figured out how to get my terminators into them to punch them to death. 4 rounds of close combat later, where literally 8 terminators with power fists didn't cause a single wound to the thing, I just said "Well, this is f***ing stupid. If I had realized it was that impossible to wound, I would have raised a much bigger stink about you wanting to bring it." He then proceeded to laugh at how "impotent" my terminators were, and kept reminding me every 4 minutes that I had said I wasn't too worried about it before the game began. Like, he just couldn't let it go that I had the audacity to think 8 powerfists could hurt that thing. That's when I started packing up. Taunting someone who's already clearly frustrated with the way the game is going is a dick move.

Luckily me and this guy are still really good friends, mostly because that is literally the last game of WH40k I've ever played. I just model and paint now and it's been over a year. We still swap tips and tricks to each other when we learn something cool when it comes to painting. So I suppose that's a lesson in and of itself: The hobby aspect of WH40k bonds people together more so than the game itself ever can. It's worth delving in to.

I guess what I'm really getting at it everyone is going to have their own opinion about what really happens in these kinds of situations. This guy could be fuming thinking you're some kind of WAAC TFG, when you think he's basically that. I assume you know the guy by name so it might be good to not have your army on you next time you're down hanging out, and simply talk to the guy to get to know him a bit better. Swap tactics. Talk it out. Come to an understanding. Might make a next game to better, or solidify the idea maybe he's just not worth playing against.

Skew problem. The OP's opponent ran a skew list, the OP ran hard-counters to the skew list, the game became one-sided. I've had similar experiences trying to run Daemons against a Krieg list with rerollable Ld10 everywhere and Inquisitors in every squad, it doesn't work and I scoop early if things go badly because my opponent and I both know exactly how the game is going to end by the end of turn two.

I've always tried to play an entire through even if I'm getting made into Tau soup. I've always played a specific Khorne demon player all the time who had an uncanny ability to always roll his 5++ like it was a 4++, not even lying he's just always lucky. So he always managed to bait me within his Skull Crushers, which, are scary. His bloodletters, which are of course scary when charging, and his blood thirsters who always soared directly at my riptides. Often using the grimoire or some other luck he had at rolling on that D100 to better his chances again against a load of S5. (I always bring a all comers list, while all of my opponents bring Tailored lists, so I lose more than win)


Plenty of times I've been faced with utter annihilation or backing all of my troops into a corner getting closer and closer abusing my over watch until his forces where just rekt because they just can't keep up as I start backing up. Although, often times if I rolled badly to kill faster things like thirsters or cavalry it would just be a blood bath in the corner of the table.

If you were playing me and you pulled that stuff I'd... Probably get you to teach me that trick!

Sometimes people are just crappy. It happens. I guess because the game has become so involved and expensive that people want to get ther "money's worth" every time they play. Knowing you've lost before you even got to move sucks. When it happens to me I usually say one of two things.

1: Wow, you are gonna table me! Do you wanna call this one a win and play again? Maybe try a different scenario? The idea here is to not get bogged down in a one sided game, and try to have a better match up.

2: Wow, you probably have this one in the bag. Let's just keep rolling!

In either case the idea is to continue to play the game. I mean he'll, it takes so long to get going, finding players, blah! Better to just knuckle down and either take the beating or play again.

I have the same story. Usual opponent played Tau. Camped his
Hammerheads and Riptides in corners, due to placement they were unkillable, never moved anything else, just gunlined and slaughtered my nids every game.

In either case the idea is to continue to play the game. I mean he'll, it takes so long to get going, finding players, blah! Better to just knuckle down and either take the beating or play again.

that is as much of a game, as what happened to my FFB team last seson. Other school team comes at it is full of 18year olds from border guard, they have the obligatory 2xunder 17, but non of them play of course. smallest of the "girls" is a head taller then me. Warm up starts and what do we see. 4 of them doing one arm pull ups. We should have totaly played against them, because it took them so long to get to match and the roids all border guard use cost that much etc.

A sad story if anything.

But you have to realize that Tau are just 100% fethed if you can bring most of your army in range for a T2 charge.
That's just how they are.
For example, I don't think any Tau player has a chance against a dual CAD of CSM full of Chaos Spawns and Maulerfiends.
Or a good Necron Wraith Spam.

Or a fast and assault oriented Dark Angels army.
From what you describe, his list was a bit of everything, not purely optimized (Tau Flyer...).
And your list seems to be Bikers and Deep Strike, nothing too optimized but surely T2 mass charge capable.


In my opinion, your opponent still had a chance, I would definitely have tried winning in his place.

Still, if someone believe they don't stand a chance to win, it's fine for them to ask to forfeit, there's no point playing any further if one has lost the will to play.

What's likely is that your opponent realized how much he fethed up by deploying like that and that may also have been the worst situation he had been in, pushing him to conclude that all was lost.

 koooaei wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You know, I still prefer to see a Turn ZERO loss:

Well, that's a loss - not a forfeit

Don't you automatically lose anyways when you start with nothing on the table? Or at any point have no models on the table?