Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Walnuts wrote:
Well, you could give it legacy of mars so it'd actually have tank hunter...
Wouldn't be too terrible on an assault cannon Raven

Actually, you cannot give Legacy of Mars to a storm raven. The Legacy specifically calls out 'space marine tank', not vehicle.

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

What do you guys like to use as a backfield firebase for BA?
I was thinking razors (first few turns), preds, sicarans, even sniper scouts etc

I've been using the Flesh Tearers detachment for lascannon/plasma RB spam. They make a pretty great backfield.... And front field..... And mid field.


Lascannons everywhere, backing up DC and a fragioso. It's been fun.

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

InsTincT_OP wrote:
What do you guys like to use as a backfield firebase for BA?
I was thinking razors (first few turns), preds, sicarans, even sniper scouts etc

Just did a full thread about this here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/635533.page

TLR version, everyone loves the sicaran with legacy of mars, but you only get one, tri-las or auto-las predators are popular, rapier batteries are dirt cheap, and sniper scouts will almost never kill their points back, and are only good against infantry, but they're a troop choice, they can be decently survivable if they have camo cloaks and are behind cover, and will do serious work against c'tan and wraithlords / knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
Well, you could give it legacy of mars so it'd actually have tank hunter...
Wouldn't be too terrible on an assault cannon Raven

Actually, you cannot give Legacy of Mars to a storm raven. The Legacy specifically calls out 'space marine tank', not vehicle.

Whoopsth! That's right, flyers can only take certain legacies.

Guess you could give that legacy to a Caestus Assault Ram for some dumb reason tho

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

Sure if it's sitting out in the open with no access to a cover save. Like I said though you've got options; flat out, jink, both if you really want. And even if you do take it out it's a significant amount of firepower that the rest of my army doesn't have to endure.

I don't go into a game anticipating no losses, so why there's no reason to be precious about a SR if it's job was to deliver a punchy unit and it does it. If it does it and offer a few rounds of shooting it a bonus.

D

What do you guys think the optimal number of stormravens is for games above 1500pts? And what do you think about the angels fury formation? Personally, I dont really like it as I dont have room for my toys.

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

Sure if it's sitting out in the open with no access to a cover save. Like I said though you've got options; flat out, jink, both if you really want. And even if you do take it out it's a significant amount of firepower that the rest of my army doesn't have to endure.

I don't go into a game anticipating no losses, so why there's no reason to be precious about a SR if it's job was to deliver a punchy unit and it does it. If it does it and offer a few rounds of shooting it a bonus.

D

I personally find losing models that expensive to be catastrophic.

So you're expecting to not lose models?

Maybe is just me and my close play group, but all of us are super aggressive players, with me and a guy i consider my mentor more than most. It's a game about shooting and assaulting things, so stuff is just going to die. If i lose a 230 point jet to take out a 180 point tank, but it draws 3-4 units worth of firepower away from my death company/sanguinary guard, ill consider it a win. The second my assault units hit enemy lines i start regaining that deficit of points and then surpass them.

I don't mind losing models. Its a part of the game.

Fair enough Martel. I appreciate that your meta sounds much more competitive, and such a huge points loss can be detrimental to your game.

However I think SR are viable in most metas. I think th3maninblak nailed the how the tides of battle can swing and losing a large unit doesn't necessarily spell the end of a game.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Fair enough Martel. I appreciate that your meta sounds much more competitive, and such a huge points loss can be detrimental to your game.

However I think SR are viable in most metas. I think th3maninblak nailed the how the tides of battle can swing and losing a large unit doesn't necessarily spell the end of a game.

D

I think stormravens are viable in almost any meta, honestly. Though I do agree with Martel in the sense that putting a super expensive assault unit in a raven and losing them all when it gets shot down can be catastrophic.

I have been considering the angels fury spearhead formation recently, but the base cost is over 1000pts, so I dont think I could fit in everything I want to. What do you guys think about this formation?

Combine is with Astorath, a sang priest and Dante with DC coming in for a first turn assault.

It's the bees knees.

Any discussion about tactics should really include your mission types and opponents.

Competitive lists for eternal war and maelstrom are vastly different. Lists for games with friends, down your local shop/club or at a tournament are vastly different.

If I ever get around to playing any more 40k, I'd probably go with this competitive list in my setting (Maelstrom missions, friendly competitive setting, no wave serpents or adamantium lance)

1500pts, Baal Strike Force
Priest w/ Bike
5x DC w/ JP, Axe
5X DC w/ JP, Axe
5x DC w/ JP
5x DC w/ JP
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
Allied Imperial Knight Paladin

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

Sure if it's sitting out in the open with no access to a cover save. Like I said though you've got options; flat out, jink, both if you really want. And even if you do take it out it's a significant amount of firepower that the rest of my army doesn't have to endure.

I don't go into a game anticipating no losses, so why there's no reason to be precious about a SR if it's job was to deliver a punchy unit and it does it. If it does it and offer a few rounds of shooting it a bonus.

D

I personally find losing models that expensive to be catastrophic.

230pts isn't really a big points sink. You could spend that on a unit of Death Company and then watch as they get wiped out by Dark Reapers. Sometimes you lose units in this game. You just need to do your best to avoid the traps and work around them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

InsTincT_OP wrote:
I have been considering the angels fury spearhead formation recently, but the base cost is over 1000pts, so I dont think I could fit in everything I want to. What do you guys think about this formation?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been considering the angels fury spearhead formation recently, but the base cost is over 1000pts, so I dont think I could fit in everything I want to. What do you guys think about this formation?

I've been using it myself. Still trying to get a feel for it but so far it's worked out not too bad in the games I've played. I've been taking along with it a priest, a small squad of scouts, Cassor the Damned, 8 Death Company with a Drop Pod and also 2 fast attack dreadnoughts. For the campaign we are doing I also get a free Librarian worth upto 150pts tjhat doesn't take up an army slot.

I had two games at the weekend there, both games I was up against the same player however the first game was 1vs1 and the second game was 2vs2. The player I played against took a Storm Sword supper heavy along with a massive platoon of guardsmen of about 50 guys to bubble wrap his tank all behind an aegis line. In the first game I lost to objectives, but I did manage to wipe out his guardsmen platoon with the Death Company and Cassor. The Tactical squads even made a contribution. At the end I still had one Stormraven and two drop pods left and he had his Assassin and a small squad of guardsmen left. In the second game we won on objectives but this time I managed to fail a ridiculous charge. My Death Company was quite literally only 3 inches away from his guard squad before charging but I rolled 3 on the dice and had to take away 2 because I was going through an aegis line to get to him and I also failed a ridiculous charge similar to that one with one of the tactical squads when they got out. However we still won the second game and still managed to blow that super heavy up.

Bartali wrote:
Any discussion about tactics should really include your mission types and opponents.

Competitive lists for eternal war and maelstrom are vastly different. Lists for games with friends, down your local shop/club or at a tournament are vastly different.

If I ever get around to playing any more 40k, I'd probably go with this competitive list in my setting (Maelstrom missions, friendly competitive setting, no wave serpents or adamantium lance)

1500pts, Baal Strike Force
Priest w/ Bike
5x DC w/ JP, Axe
5X DC w/ JP, Axe
5x DC w/ JP
5x DC w/ JP
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
Allied Imperial Knight Paladin

Is this an updated version of Blood Rodeo?

Do you think the spearhead strikeforce could be used competitively?

Or the sanguine wing?
I used that thing once and loved it.

Det Thyge wrote:

Bartali wrote:
Any discussion about tactics should really include your mission types and opponents.

Competitive lists for eternal war and maelstrom are vastly different. Lists for games with friends, down your local shop/club or at a tournament are vastly different.

If I ever get around to playing any more 40k, I'd probably go with this competitive list in my setting (Maelstrom missions, friendly competitive setting, no wave serpents or adamantium lance)

1500pts, Baal Strike Force
Priest w/ Bike
5x DC w/ JP, Axe
5X DC w/ JP, Axe
5x DC w/ JP
5x DC w/ JP
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
Allied Imperial Knight Paladin

Is this an updated version of Blood Rodeo?

I'd love to see Blood Rodeo again.
Besides, I made a thread about it too Here.
I used allies though.

How would you guys go about making a dual formation (angels fury spearhead and baal strikeforce) list?

I wouldn't even touch that thing below 2k points, instinct, but if I did, I'd take the three cheapest units possible to hold points on my side of the board, like maybe 2 scout squads and a rapier, or a whirlwind even, then spend as many points as I have left over on drop pod units, fragiosos, death company on foot, mephiston and corbulo.

I was thinking similar tbh. I dont think I would use those as a dual formation list.

So i think we have enough information to classify several different types of semi competitive or better BA lists.

-Full drop pod
-drop pod with DanteStar
-DoA (with Dante, of course)
-blood jumpers (death co/sanguinary guard spam)
-blood rodeo (biker spam)
-mechanized/msu

Seems like a good start.

Looks good to me man.
Do you think you could use a few of those and still make a competitive list?

I've had fun games with the SethStar.

15 DC with Seth and a Libby for Quickening

The only BA list making waves at the moment is pods with dantestar. I posted this in the BA tactics thread but ill repost the general idea here.

Baal strike force or flesh tearers detachment (the one with 1-6 fast attack slots)

Dante

Priest with a jump pack and some combination of angels wings,valours edge and/or veritas vitae

8-10 sanguinary guard with 2 fists and a banner

7-9 drop pods with 3+ tri melta assault marine squads and some mix of flamer tac squads, fragnoughts or sternguard

Allied iron hands detachment

Chapter master with hammer/fist, shield eternal, artificer armor and bike

5x scouts

Works at either 1850 or 2000 points.

That's kinda depressing.

 TranSpyre wrote:
I've had fun games with the SethStar.

15 DC with Seth and a Libby for Quickening

How about 14 Death Company instead? They would fit inside of a LRC.
Footslogging isn't only a way to get them killed, it also limits your choice of targets greatly.

 th3maninblak wrote:
The only BA list making waves at the moment is pods with dantestar. I posted this in the BA tactics thread but ill repost the general idea here.

Baal strike force or flesh tearers detachment (the one with 1-6 fast attack slots)

Dante

Priest with a jump pack and some combination of angels wings,valours edge and/or veritas vitae

8-10 sanguinary guard with 2 fists and a banner

7-9 drop pods with 3+ tri melta assault marine squads and some mix of flamer tac squads, fragnoughts or sternguard

Allied iron hands detachment

Chapter master with hammer/fist, shield eternal, artificer armor and bike

5x scouts

Works at either 1850 or 2000 points.

Sometimes it seems like this is the only kind of BA list I see.
I'm not a fan of it for several reasons. All-points-in-one-basket-deathstar, multiple small units that get killed pretty quickly, no anti-air or any gun worth mentioning with a range longer than 12".
Especially the anti-tank options seem limited. Any list with 2+ Wave Serpents is simply going to laugh your podding meltas off. And even against low AV you cannot guarantee any results with only two Meltaguns.

Actually, with 3 tri melta asm squads and 2 dual melta tac squads you can put 11 melta guns on target turn 1. Its enough to crack wave serpents, even if they have gone first.