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Thanks for the replies, indeed, it seems Ravenguard lost their scout. I figured them or BA would make Rhinos the most viable choice.

I guess, White Scars take that biscuit now as they retain it with their chapter master.

Don't worry dark angels are going to get plasma weapons for 5pts now!

Am I the only one who'll be buying one or two Land Speeder Storms? They're an FA-choice in the new SM 'dex.

Am I the only one probably going back to Red Space Marines? There's practically no reason to play BA now. Good job, GW.

Martel732 wrote:
Am I the only one probably going back to Red Space Marines? There's practically no reason to play BA now. Good job, GW.

I will be keeping my Blood Angels as Blood Angels. I already have a C:SM army (that just got better), so I don't see why I would want another. My BA function completely different than my Crimson Fists.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Am I the only one probably going back to Red Space Marines? There's practically no reason to play BA now. Good job, GW.

I will be keeping my Blood Angels as Blood Angels. I already have a C:SM army (that just got better), so I don't see why I would want another. My BA function completely different than my Crimson Fists.

Can't be that different. They are both meq lists.

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Am I the only one probably going back to Red Space Marines? There's practically no reason to play BA now. Good job, GW.

I will be keeping my Blood Angels as Blood Angels. I already have a C:SM army (that just got better), so I don't see why I would want another. My BA function completely different than my Crimson Fists.

Can't be that different. They are both meq lists.

One is assault heavy and all jump packs with a smattering of other stuff. My Crimson Fists are a mobile gunline.

Oh yeah. Terminators for C:SM are 175pts now... Another kick in the nuts for BA

 raiden wrote:
Oh yeah. Terminators for C:SM are 175pts now... Another kick in the nuts for BA

Perhaps we will be very lucky and a faq will adjust points costs for BA/SW probably not however.

Like we were ever going to play with tactical terminators anyways. Funny thing is, even with termies going down 25 points and vanguard vets getting 5 point power weapons, sanguinary guard are STILL more cost effective than either.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Like we were ever going to play with tactical terminators anyways. Funny thing is, even with termies going down 25 points and vanguard vets getting 5 point power weapons, sanguinary guard are STILL more cost effective than either.

very true.

But I would not mind our scouts being able to go to WS4 BS4 at 10ppm like c:sm

Oh i would love that, though our scouts were already better at the job we needed them for to begin with. 3 str5 init5 attacks on the charge is pretty awesome and perfect for our army. Just because we are a point of ws and bs behind doesn't mean our scouts are bad.

Martel732 wrote:
Am I the only one probably going back to Red Space Marines? There's practically no reason to play BA now. Good job, GW.

I'm done. I decided a week or two ago to change to a Salamander Successor (and occasional White Scar). Funny enough the final straw wasn't the week rules, it was one of the Black Library audio books; Herald of Sanguinius. I've put up with quite a bit of nonsense to be a Blood Angel, but between that and Sins of the Father and Virtue of the Sons. I've had enough. Sanguinius comes off as such a putz in the HH stories.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Am I the only one probably going back to Red Space Marines? There's practically no reason to play BA now. Good job, GW.

I'm done. I decided a week or two ago to change to a Salamander Successor (and occasional White Scar). Funny enough the final straw wasn't the week rules, it was one of the Black Library audio books; Herald of Sanguinius. I've put up with quite a bit of nonsense to be a Blood Angel, but between that and Sins of the Father and Virtue of the Sons. I've had enough. Sanguinius comes off as such a putz in the HH stories.

Remove your nipples for your lack of faith.

I wouldn't call it a lack of faith. It is more a revelation that Sanguinius isn't my guy anymore.

Blood angel is Codex : codex adeptus astartes so are Space marine..

Can we just use all 4 book to mix up in single detachment?

Harken unto me my brothers. Now are the dark times. The annoying times. Yea 'tis the age of Bloodmarines!

On a slightly less silly note, as a BAs player of 20 years I say that theres always a period between new BAs codexes where our army is really in the shade & out shined by the vanilla marines. For me its always been a situation where I took a base vanilla marines army with BAs allys. Take what you need from c:sm and what you want from the BAs. Ally in our best and/or fluffiest units to give you the flavor you want.

Actually, SM and BA ally really well. Stick an iron hands shield eternal master in a unit with a sanguinary priest and you have a dude with 2+/3++/4+++ 4w t5 and eternal warrior. That guy in a squad of sanguinary guard with dante and a priest and you've got a helluva death star. Furthermore, our scouts are still better on the charge than theirs, so allying in a couple land speeder storms seems awesome.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Actually, SM and BA ally really well. Stick an iron hands shield eternal master in a unit with a sanguinary priest and you have a dude with 2+/3++/4+++ 4w t5 and eternal warrior. That guy in a squad of sanguinary guard with dante and a priest and you've got a helluva death star. Furthermore, our scouts are still better on the charge than theirs, so allying in a couple land speeder storms seems awesome.

Technically, if you did that, the Iron Hands character would lose their Chapter Tactics benefit since they are attached to another Chapter's Squad.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Actually, SM and BA ally really well. Stick an iron hands shield eternal master in a unit with a sanguinary priest and you have a dude with 2+/3++/4+++ 4w t5 and eternal warrior. That guy in a squad of sanguinary guard with dante and a priest and you've got a helluva death star. Furthermore, our scouts are still better on the charge than theirs, so allying in a couple land speeder storms seems awesome.

Technically, if you did that, the Iron Hands character would lose their Chapter Tactics benefit since they are attached to another Chapter's Squad.

How? He has the chapter tactics rule.

 th3maninblak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Actually, SM and BA ally really well. Stick an iron hands shield eternal master in a unit with a sanguinary priest and you have a dude with 2+/3++/4+++ 4w t5 and eternal warrior. That guy in a squad of sanguinary guard with dante and a priest and you've got a helluva death star. Furthermore, our scouts are still better on the charge than theirs, so allying in a couple land speeder storms seems awesome.

Technically, if you did that, the Iron Hands character would lose their Chapter Tactics benefit since they are attached to another Chapter's Squad.

How? He has the chapter tactics rule.

When an IC with the Chapter Tactics rule is attached to a squad from another Chapter, they lose the benefit of their Chapter Tactics.

BA don't bring enough to the table to even be an ally at this point, though. That's the problem.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Actually, SM and BA ally really well. Stick an iron hands shield eternal master in a unit with a sanguinary priest and you have a dude with 2+/3++/4+++ 4w t5 and eternal warrior. That guy in a squad of sanguinary guard with dante and a priest and you've got a helluva death star. Furthermore, our scouts are still better on the charge than theirs, so allying in a couple land speeder storms seems awesome.

Technically, if you did that, the Iron Hands character would lose their Chapter Tactics benefit since they are attached to another Chapter's Squad.

How? He has the chapter tactics rule.

When an IC with the Chapter Tactics rule is attached to a squad from another Chapter, they lose the benefit of their Chapter Tactics.

Technically BAs are not another chapter. In the rule, it defines it as being another unit with a different Chapter Tactic, which BA do not have. They are a different army, and do not have a Chapter Tactic, which is one of the weirdest RAW things that's happened recently. SM characters can attach to other codexes and be just fine.

Martel, i don't think i have ever actually heard you back up any n3gative comment you have ever said on any BA thread. It's like you pop in just to make a super morose statement that is entirely unsubstantiated and then leave.

Also the point about the iron hands master working with BA goves me the warm and fuzzies.

I'm trying not to belabor my points. In order to save time, let's focus on what exactly you think BA have to offer vanilla marines at this point, given that assault with non-beasts and non-MCs is very suboptimal in the current rules set.

BA give SM easy drop pods with little tax and FNP from the Sang Priest for FNP. That's about it =\

Does the Sanguinary Priest work for non-BA?

Martel732 wrote:
Does the Sanguinary Priest work for non-BA?

Narthecium doesn't care if you're a BA or not, only the +1 WS does.
And by raw currently, BA IC's don't negate chapter tactics of a sm unit because BA don't have the chapter tactics ability.

I'm gonna try to blindside some people at an ITC event next week with some "blood Templars," or "iron blood hands," depending on a couple rulings. I'm keeping my list under wraps but I'll be using a small BA CAD to "technically" still be a BA player. (Really silly flaw in their faction system, but oh well, dem's the rules.)

So I'm coming up on a promotion and a pretty substantial pay raise in the next month, and to celebrate I think I'm gonna build the Archangels Sanguine Wing formation. Trying to work it into a list though. Here's the first draft.

Baal Strike Force

HQ
-Sanguinary Priest
Warlord
Jump pack
Bolt pistol
Valour's Edge

-Sanguinary Priest
Angel's Wing
Bolt pistol
Power Sword

Elites
-5x Death Company
Jump packs
Power fist

-5x Death Company
Jump packs
Power fist

-5x Death Company
Jump packs
Power fist

Troops
-5x Scouts
CCWs
Combi melta

-5x Scouts
CCWs
Combi melta

Fast Attack
-5x Bikers
2x Grav
Combi grav

Archangels Sanguine Wing Formation

-10x Vanguard Veterans
Sgt with storm shield and lightning claw
3x storm shield and lightning claw
4x power sword
2x power axe
Jump packs

-10x Vanguard veterans
Sgt with storm shield and lightning claw
3x storm shield and lightning claw
4x power sword
2x power axe

-10x Sternguard veterans
5x combi melta
5x combi grav

-Stormraven
Hurricane bolters
Assault cannon
Multi melta

Comes to like 1847. Sanguinary priests deep strike in with the vanguard vets.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Does the Sanguinary Priest work for non-BA?

Narthecium doesn't care if you're a BA or not, only the +1 WS does.
And by raw currently, BA IC's don't negate chapter tactics of a sm unit because BA don't have the chapter tactics ability.

I'm gonna try to blindside some people at an ITC event next week with some "blood Templars," or "iron blood hands," depending on a couple rulings. I'm keeping my list under wraps but I'll be using a small BA CAD to "technically" still be a BA player. (Really silly flaw in their faction system, but oh well, dem's the rules.)

But what do BA IC's do? Practically nothing compared to ICs of other armies. I guess they hand out FNP. So the BA are reduced to taxis for the Skitaari and FNP monkeys. I'll pass.