Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey mates, after selling what I had of my Sentinels of Terra List for a good cause and giving a young cancer survivor a chance to get an Army ready to go, I decided to go a different rout and work on a White Scars Bike Army as not only is it easy to collect but also is one of the fairly cheaper routes, but I heard it is actually one of the better Space Marine Lists you can field in this edition. Now I don't know much about the list, so I have some questions on what is and isn't effective about a Bike List.

* HQ: Besides the White Scars Special Character, I head that a Chapter Master on a Bike is really good depending on his equipment. I have seen one of the most common being either:

Bike, Artificer Armor, Eternal Shield, Relic Blade or Bike, Burning Blade, Storm Shield, Artificer Armor.

Which one has proven to be more effective? Granted the Eternal Shield makes him basically unkillable, however I do like the Burning Blade for its perks.

* Troops: Bike Squads are the obvious choice, and I plan to field both with Melta and Plasama Squads. Would Grav-Guns also be an effective option? And depending on how the squad is tooled towards, I will include Attack Bikes. But, would my Bike Squads be better suited for just Anti-Infantry and use other slots for Anti-Tank? And would Tac Squads Mounted in Rhions be a bad option for another Troop Choice?

* Elites: Do not plan to run any at all, as White Scars fluff say they rarely use Terminators and no Dreadnoughts at all so that part is taken care of. Have seen some people use Drop Pod units of Sternguard sometimes but not sure if it would be worth it.

* Fast Attack: Heard Landspeeders are a solid option for Bike Armies, particulary the Typhoon for the Missiles or the Tornado Variants (Multi-Melta, Assault Cannon or Heavy-Flamer, Heavy Bolter, etc.).

* Heavy Support: Only option I have considered here is the Fire Raptor I currently have, kitted-out with Autocannons. Besides that, not sure what else would be a good choice other then maybe Vindicators or Predators.

Anyways, a total noob when it comes to bike lists so any advice or tactics you can share would be greatly appreciated and thanks again for all the help.

If you want swift bikes play white scars or DA. Imperial fists gives me an image of a centurion struggling through a few meters of dead bodies.

lliu wrote:
If you want swift bikes play white scars or DA. Imperial fists gives me an image of a centurion struggling through a few meters of dead bodies.

I am going White Scars. Obviously you didn't read my whole post mate so why did you even bother to comment lol.

I would run the CM with Shield Eternal + Hammer/Fist for some S8 AP2 action. You also need Khan for the global Scout bonus. Stick them both a Bike Command Squad with 4 Grav and Apothecarius. That gives you a 2+/3++ EW FnP 4W tank and plenty of dakka with some decent choppa to boot. Give him also an Auspex. Can't hurt to strip a bit of cover.

I would skip Elites entirely unless you have a pretty good plan.

Troops, I like the 5man setup with 2 Grav + 1 combi-Grav. They can outflank or scout with Khan as Warlord. You can also go the MSU route and get a full squad + MM attack bike. Then have the Attack Bike go around with a few ablative wounds and the grav dudes all together.
I generally advice against Plasma here, since Grav covers your AP2 and anti-MC needs while TL Bolters kill hordes. I would capitalize on the advantage of SM to bring relentless Grav. Having said that, Melta is a solid second choice. You need to test what you like better.

In the FA slot I would either go for dual MM speeder or Typhoon Speeder. Personally, I prefer the Typhoon + HB setup for some long ranged AT pressure and as an annoying objective scorer.
Stormtalons are also great. Again, a matter of taste. Some prefer the Speeders. I like to run 1 Talon with Skyhammer and two Typhoon.

HS I would go for the Sicaran Battle Tank. That thing is fast, so it keep to the fluff and it lays down incredible dakka for its points can allows you to deal with Serpents reliably while having a resistant AV13 hull.

To sum it up, this is what I run when I get to play SM:
CM + Khan in Grav/Apo Bike CS
Grav Bikes as Troops, maybe one unit of Scouts in LSS for capping stuff
Stormtalon and Typhoon Speeders
Sicaran Battle Tank with Schizm of Mars, Vindicators if I have points left.

I have also seen people mix it up with a few Tac pods for early Melta pressure. Not a fan, personally, but it does the job.

I wouldn't bother with the shield eternal-for most purposes you're an eternal warrior anyway (ie T5 means only S10 can ID you), and while I admit there are still weapons which will have the ID rule, there aren't so many of them that you should necessarily plan on them. Make your CM killy and then maybe throw in a cheaper supporting character (chaplain, perhaps) who takes the shield-if there's a list with ID weapons in it, you throw the chappy at it while the CM takes care of other units. This would also let you take a command squad (you can't take one with the CM), who you can put on bikes and load up with grav guns or other specials as you see fit (see below) to really tear something open.

Sternguard are a good choice, although consider vanguard vets-you've got Hit and Run on almost everything, so close combat units are a bit more viable. Run them with jetpacks and a couple of power weapons (not too many), and they should make their points back, plus they fit with the hit and run nature of the WS.

Grav guns are excellent, especially on bikes. You're relentless, so you get all three shots, and grav is specifically designed to tear apart units with high armour, which are generally the units you care more about killing quick-you have twin linked bolters for killing most units that grav is bad against. I'd definitely take at least one grav squad, or load up a command squad with 5 grav guns and let loose.

I've not played with landspeeders, but I hear they're alright. I'd be tempted to throw in an assault squad because, again, your chapter tactics give you a bit of a boost with CC units. Mobile shooting platforms are always useful though, so your call.

skolirvarden wrote:
I wouldn't bother with the shield eternal-for most purposes you're an eternal warrior anyway (ie T5 means only S10 can ID you), and while I admit there are still weapons which will have the ID rule, there aren't so many of them that you should necessarily plan on them. Make your CM killy and then maybe throw in a cheaper supporting character (chaplain, perhaps) who takes the shield-if there's a list with ID weapons in it, you throw the chappy at it while the CM takes care of other units. This would also let you take a command squad (you can't take one with the CM), who you can put on bikes and load up with grav guns or other specials as you see fit (see below) to really tear something open.

Terrible advice there on the Shield.

Always pick up the shield eternal. Chapter masters cost 250 points and come with Bike, Artificer, Shield Eternal and Thunderhammer. You now wound most monsterous creatures on a 2+ and ignore armour without getting ID'ed by their smash, you can crush walkers and not get doubled out by their DCCW's and you can also instant death multi-wound T4, like chumps who didn't take the shield eternal.

Trade Prince is bang on the money.

250 Chapter master with mandatory gear
150 for Khan on Moondrakken
230 for Command Squad with Apoth, 4x Grav, 4x Melta Bombs
135 5x Bikes, 2x Grav
125 5x Bikes, 2x Melta
125 5x Bikes, 2x Melta
125 Stormtalon, Skyhammer
125 Stormtalon, Skyhammer

1265

Cut the 'Talons and some melta for 1k, cut 3 melta bombs for 1250, add whatever to reach desired points. More bike squads, MM Attack bike upgrades, sniper scouts for backfield objectives, Assault scouts with LSS transport for surprise assaults and infiltrate & DS protection, Sicaran if FW is allowed, landspeeders with double melta or typhoon as desired, a Stormraven for more AA, some Suicide Sternguard to get some nice alpha strike, lots of room for playing to your meta and lots of excellent choices.

Well, in the smash heavy meta, you need shield eternal.

My favorite trick, ally in Sammael and 1 squad of Black Knights or a RW command squad with 5 bare bones scouts or tacticals.

Then you put Sammael with your WS command squad (I give mine grav guns and close combat gear, but YMMV) add in Khan and your CM beat stick. That's 2+ jink saves, a pile of wounds, FNP if you get the Apothecary, and whatever special weapons and melta bombs you want. Sammy has AP2 and EW too and can break off for a late game obj grab... As he's a jetbike.

After that it's 2-3 StormTalons and troop bike squads with attack bikes until I run out of points.

In bigger games or tournaments I add in vengeance batteries to deal with hordes better.

For 2k+ club fun, take a Clan Raukaan Bike beat stick and 5 more tacticals. Add him to either the Death Star unit or divide him into the Knights. Now you've got 3 deadly CM like characters trolling in kills all over the place.

I do put at least some SSs on my command squad, but most will argue that's a waste of points.

 Lobukia wrote:
Well, in the smash heavy meta, you need shield eternal.

My favorite trick, ally in Sammael and 1 squad of Black Knights or a RW command squad with 5 bare bones scouts or tacticals.

Then you put Sammael with your WS command squad (I give mine grav guns and close combat gear, but YMMV) add in Khan and your CM beat stick. That's 2+ jink saves, a pile of wounds, FNP if you get the Apothecary, and whatever special weapons and melta bombs you want. Sammy has AP2 and EW too and can break off for a late game obj grab... As he's a jetbike.

After that it's 2-3 StormTalons and troop bike squads with attack bikes until I run out of points.

In bigger games or tournaments I add in vengeance batteries to deal with hordes better.

For 2k+ club fun, take a Clan Raukaan Bike beat stick and 5 more tacticals. Add him to either the Death Star unit or divide him into the Knights. Now you've got 3 deadly CM like characters trolling in kills all over the place.

I do put at least some SSs on my command squad, but most will argue that's a waste of points.

In Bigger Point Games I was planning on allying with the Ravenwing, as although I am not a fan of the DA Chapter, I do love those knights they get for sure are nasty, especially with the twin-linked Plasma for some serious firepower., especially in my meta with a lot of Necrons, Marines, and Orks. Besides that, still debating some things, however would a Librarian be a good choice in a bike army? While doing my research I noticed most Bike armies don't take any so was just curious about that. And would Vindicators work or would I be better off with Thunderfire Cannons or Predators?

Thunderfires for sure. You won't need tank hunting or AP2 help, but a couple TFCs will really help with hordes and if you end up getting some backfield Techmarines out of the deal, fine too.

Thunderfires are always great, but they don't really fit the WS ethos, do they

Vindicator and TFC do different things. The only thing they have in common is killing hordes. Having said that, the TFC has more applications and is more accurate in it's executions. So if you are willing to compromise and include some slower elements, then TFC should be your pick.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
Thunderfires are always great, but they don't really fit the WS ethos, do they

Vindicator and TFC do different things. The only thing they have in common is killing hordes. Having said that, the TFC has more applications and is more accurate in it's executions. So if you are willing to compromise and include some slower elements, then TFC should be your pick.

You make a goo point, was just curious about that but I do admit I do like the TFC and what it brings. Flyer-wise, never been a fan of the Stormtalon at all, as it is too fragile and only comes in with 2x HP, not worth it in my opinion. As for allies, DA Ravenwing is an obvious choice, however some people have said that Inquisitor Coteaz would be a solid investment, and with him, stick him in a unit of Sternguard w/Combi-Melta and let them have fun with that for a turn, as his whole purpose is for the ability to hold and secure Turn 1, which is vital for a Bike Army.

I have a White Scar army as well. Based some options on modelling choices though, but bikes are competitive enough to take a few flaws.

Captain with relic blade, storm shield, and artificer armour on a bike.

Librarian with mastery level 2, grab pistol, and force staff on a bike.

One squad of six bikers including two flamers, a combi-flamer on the sergeant and a heavy bolter attack bike.

Two squads of six bikers each including two grav-guns and an attack bike with multi-melta.

Two land speeders with heavy bolters and typhoon missile launchers in separate slots.

It's 1000 points. For 1500 I add the Imperial Knight that was in the White Dwarf for some extra distraction and heavy firepower.

i would be a rebel and not run bikes at all as a white scar; nobody could predict it happening and it would be absolutely silly to see them come to the table to squash bikes and have to wind up figuring out how their going to pop land raiders with their current loadout.

the sheer shocked expression on their faces alone would be worth it.

i did this once to an imperial guard player when i showed up with nothing but generic marines (dark angels) and cheap av11-13 he spent the entire game trying to figure out how exactly he was supposed to kill my tanks with only 1 lascannon teams

 ionusx wrote:
i would be a rebel and not run bikes at all as a white scar; nobody could predict it happening and it would be absolutely silly to see them come to the table to squash bikes and have to wind up figuring out how their going to pop land raiders with their current loadout.

the sheer shocked expression on their faces alone would be worth it.

i did this once to an imperial guard player when i showed up with nothing but generic marines (dark angels) and cheap av11-13 he spent the entire game trying to figure out how exactly he was supposed to kill my tanks with only 1 lascannon teams

Lol. and maybe the next time switch to a footslogging infantry heavy list, just to watch your opponent thrash their lascannon teams (obviously since last time they stocked up on them)

Scouting LRs are a very nasty surprise, Kor'Sarro+Hammernators are pricy but very choppy!

Seriously consider a powerfist or hammer instead of burning or relic blade. With the shield and artifice armor, you need not worry about striking last.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Seriously consider a powerfist or hammer instead of burning or relic blade. With the shield and artifice armor, you need not worry about striking last.

I think the 5 points of TH are worth it, if you're stuck in the Concussive will help you. At least the other guy won't strike before you more than once if you wound it... AP3 is useless in a character meant to kill the meanest guys on the table.