Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know some of the basics, like their devastators and centurions are good vehicle killers. But how do you make the most of their bolter drills? I have heard 3 groups of 10 in drop pods, with maybe a flamer or plasma gun combat squadding works well, and great for objectives.

Someone told me, and I read the heavy bolter thread, that despite being good with bolters, usually your devastators are going to be better off with las or missles anyway. Are they worth it for regular tacs, or still better off taking a lascannon for effectiveness.

Also, if I was going to run devastators, a razorback work well for them? Someone said I should take 2 libbys, and stick one in each centurion squad (assuming 2) for buffs.

Any other basic advice out there?

Also is the sentinels of terra worth it, or are they more powerful basic codex?

As you've pointed out, where imperial fists shine is in their bolter use.

Personally, I adore the sentinels of terra supplement for several reasons.

The first is the twin linked bolters. It makes overwatch far more deadly, and it helps if you upgrade to a heavy bolter and keep it on the move, which makes the upgrade more viable.

The other perk is the bones of oserak, which get you an extra warp charge and let you reroll psychic tests, which can help make psychic powers more reliable.

As with the tactics you've mentioned, I don't think the devastators really need a razorback. Their tank hunting lascannons usually do the trick. Although it wouldn't be the worst choice as the tac squads should be moving forward into rapid fire range, so a razorback that could sit and shoot would be a plus.

The librarians can really go anywhere, but with centurions is definitely the popular place. I find they can synergize well with terminators, buffing them to more extent, as the centurions are pretty tough as long as they keep their distance (and hug some cover).

If you do grab sentinels, another tactic to consider is scout rush. Their bolters also get the twin linked, which can really put the pressure on from a land speeder storm or simply from infiltrating.

Interesting. Not a big fan of the scouts, but I dident know the sentinels of terra book game them so much. I guess you could still take lysander, but I think 2 psykers would work out better.

Basically if you are running scouts go sentinels, if you are running tacs go regular fists.

I would keep the tacs cheap, maybe 4 bolters and a heavy bolter with a rhino. Dev+lascannon probably 2 out of 5 so that way if you buy them a rhino they can both fire out of the hatch and if you have to move them you can get some serious distance out of that single movement phase.

Would not bother with the libby for buffs since you are not going to have enough dice and the tree your guys want is divination which fists cant access.

SOT ARE GREAT

Lots of lazcannons on devs..... devs every where
Lots of boltermarines in rhinos and some scouts to help.
Lysander and Libby to lead.... lysander is too damn expensive though: (
Add some cents and some thunderfires and that's a solid list

I would argue that the Libby is a decent HQ choice with Sentinels. I'd usually roll on biomancy and hope for the 4+FNP power. Give him TDA, SS, the Bones relic and an auspex and pod him in with some tacticals. You could also have him join the centurion squad. For a more fluffy list, have him join termies (TL storm bolters) and deep strike him off of beacons from your LSS scouts.

Lysander is great but tough to build a list around him and still take advantage of the CT.
He's still relatively cheap and provides decent buffs.

Definitely go Sentinels of Terra. Twin-linked Rapid Fire Bolters is too good to pass up. Also, being able to field Centurions in a multitude of slots is pretty awesome. I play my Crimson Fists using DoT and they are awesome. I love being able to roll tons of dice.

I agree that Sentinels of Terra is the better option. Twinlinked bolters and half range is a much better buff than Bolter Drill.

To take advantage of IF, you want to take several squads of devastators, and a relatively high portion of Tactical or Scout squads. It's also worth looking into taking Lysander, who is a very good named character.

Someone said I should take 2 libbys, and stick one in each centurion squad (assuming 2) for buffs.

I'm not sure what they're going to do. SM librarians don't have access to Divination. At best, you'll take Telepathy and try to get shrouding or invisibility (which is not very reliable).

Hmm how does it deal with necrons? Guys in my area are running dual wraithstars, and crushing everything (decursion detatchment of course). Also wouldnt drop pods be better than rhinos?

Against necrons the only thing that matters is volume of fire. They basically ignore any specialist or AP so its better to aim for getting as MANY wounds as you can.

So look at things that are going to get those shots in.

In addition you are going to want a fast mobile assault force that can get into the vulnerable parts in the back and swee them in combat.

With that in mind I think you should not go 100% imperial fists, but rather look at a combination of ways to get that improved firepower in.

 Leth wrote:
Against necrons the only thing that matters is volume of fire. They basically ignore any specialist or AP so its better to aim for getting as MANY wounds as you can.

So look at things that are going to get those shots in.

In addition you are going to want a fast mobile assault force that can get into the vulnerable parts in the back and swee them in combat.

With that in mind I think you should not go 100% imperial fists, but rather look at a combination of ways to get that improved firepower in.

that dosent seem like a realistic answer. To beat them, you have to combine armies and basically not play what you want? Is the balance really that bad?

Short answer: Point, shoot.

Longer answer: Build a wall of bolters (with fortifications if necessary), ensure you have the heavy/special weapons distributed across it to fight any big stuff that gets tossed at you, and shoot until there's nothing left on the table. If you need to advance and hold objectives move the gunline up to them (you should have made sure the objectives are in cover with good fields of fire).

 Orock wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Against necrons the only thing that matters is volume of fire. They basically ignore any specialist or AP so its better to aim for getting as MANY wounds as you can.

So look at things that are going to get those shots in.

In addition you are going to want a fast mobile assault force that can get into the vulnerable parts in the back and swee them in combat.

With that in mind I think you should not go 100% imperial fists, but rather look at a combination of ways to get that improved firepower in.

that dosent seem like a realistic answer. To beat them, you have to combine armies and basically not play what you want? Is the balance really that bad?

Balance for BB has to factor in the ability to BB otherwise if each book was at the same level then BB would have an inherent HUGE advantage.

Each of the imperial books/factions has some manor of specialization. It is up to the player to select the best way to deal with the problem.

I am not saying its right, I am saying that there is no real good solution with Allies in place.

The thing is that there is nothing stopping you from fluffing up your entire army as being imperial fists using the rules from elsewhere. Perhaps they represent members from a specific company whose master uses unconventional tactics. So on and so forth.

Rules are there to play the game, you can do whatever you want modeling and fluffwise.

Dealing with dual Wraith squad is gonna be tough. I'd actually say that in that case Lysander is a great option since his Hammer of Awesomeness can insta-gib them.

2 tools that work great against wraiths:

1) grav-centurions will put a dent in it; a 3-man squad with the hurricane bolters will definitely do some damage (I would have said MLs in the past, but alas...) you'll have to get them in range to make the most of their shots which will be difficult. Gating them with a Libby is an option (if you get the power) otherwise, LR, Stormraven or an allied pod

2) to a lesser extent, sternguards thanks to their hellfire rounds

The key though is to take out the Spyder first, otherwise you're just wasting your time

I would almost say that Tomb Blades are a bigger threat now; TL S5 dual shots on a jetbike that has the potential to have +1 to cover save or ignore-cover shots is nasty (the blast weapon is solid too); it'll chew through a lot of stuff.