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My main question is whether or not you're are allowed to assault on your first turn. Simple enough just a yes or no question.

My second question is mainly just curiosity. The Necron Decurion Detachment says that you can count formations you take as part of the detachment as well (so long as it's within the boundaries). So does that mean that you couldn't take a Helfast Murderpack and count it as in your Combined Arms Detachment even though it fits the boundaries? And can you take both a Decurion Detachment and a Combined Arms Detachment?

 marrowick wrote:
My main question is whether or not you're are allowed to assault on your first turn. Simple enough just a yes or no question.

My second question is mainly just curiosity. The Necron Decurion Detachment says that you can count formations you take as part of the detachment as well (so long as it's within the boundaries). So does that mean that you couldn't take a Helfast Murderpack and count it as in your Combined Arms Detachment even though it fits the boundaries? And can you take both a Decurion Detachment and a Combined Arms Detachment?

Main question... yes, but it's EXTREMELY difficult to pull off as you're almost always going to be out of range and most ways of getting in range prohibit assaults. If you want to know about a specific situation, let us know the details.

Second question... NO. The wording in the Necron Decurion Detachment is only applicable to that Detachment. Any models belonging to a Helfast Muurderpack would not be able to also belong to a CAD as models normally can't belong to more than one formation/detachment.

Keep in mind pretty much every form of getting closer to you opponent before the game starts (infiltrate, scout, reserves) all specifically prohibit charging

To answer your first question: Yes, you can. It is normally near impossible to do however, given the distance between deployment zones, and specific exceptions contained within Special Rules (Infiltrate for example).

For the second question: A unit cannot belong to more than one Detachment (unless given a specific exception).

edit: Damned Ninjas!

 marrowick wrote:
My second question is mainly just curiosity. The Necron Decurion Detachment says that you can count formations you take as part of the detachment as well (so long as it's within the boundaries). So does that mean that you couldn't take a Helfast Murderpack and count it as in your Combined Arms Detachment even though it fits the boundaries? And can you take both a Decurion Detachment and a Combined Arms Detachment?

The others have answered the question, but I'll just add that it seems you have some misconceptions on how the Necron Decurion works. The Decurion is not like other detachments and does not have a Force Organization chart. It instead consists of a mandatory Formation, an optional 0-1 Formation and a choice of one to ten auxiliary Formations/specific units you add to create the Decurion Detachment.

Okay. Thanks guys.

Outside of Apocalypse first-turn charges basically require player one to decide to get charged and move forward as fast as he can.

Eversor in a Landraider works methinks. The new Solitaire in a transport could also work.

ryuken87 wrote:
Eversor in a Landraider works methinks. The new Solitaire in a transport could also work.

Warp Spiders have a good shot as well with up to an 18" move. Powerblades anyone? lol.

He's referring to the Necron Scarabs, and the new creation rules. Yes it can be done, they are beast, not slowed by any terrain, and have fleet. If your opponent sets up max deployment, you will most likely need a 10, possibly a 9 or 8.

Opponent deploys 24" away

Spider and Scarab unit deploy on that line 24" away

Spawn a scarab 6" forward of the Spyder (18" away now)

Movement phase move 12" towards the enemy (6" away now)

So you only need a 6" charge to make it into combat.. holy crap!

EDIT - Wait you can't place the scarab 6" away.. it still needs to be in coherency so you can only place it 2" away from the nearest scarab base. So you will be around 3" closer to the enemy (2" coherency + 1" scarab base). Meaning you will need a 9" charge..

bodazoka wrote:
Opponent deploys 24" away

Spider and Scarab unit deploy on that line 24" away

Spawn a scarab 6" forward of the Spyder (18" away now)

Movement phase move 12" towards the enemy (6" away now)

So you only need a 6" charge to make it into combat.. holy crap!

EDIT - Wait you can't place the scarab 6" away.. it still needs to be in coherency so you can only place it 2" away from the nearest scarab base. So you will be around 3" closer to the enemy (2" coherency + 1" scarab base). Meaning you will need a 9" charge..

Keep in mind you can add in more Canoptek Spyders.

Take 3 for example:
Spyders move up 6 and start spawning, 1 scarab base is as you said, then 2nd scarab base is now 2" from that 1st base, and 3rd scarab base is now 2" from the 2nd Scarab base.

Now you have 3 scarab bases + 6" of "coherency" space added to the original scarab unit. Next you move the scarabs forward and with Fleet, a 1st turn assault is very much "doable"

Chariots can make these charges with Master of the Vanguard lol.

 marrowick wrote:
My main question is whether or not you're are allowed to assault on your first turn. Simple enough just a yes or no question.

My second question is mainly just curiosity. The Necron Decurion Detachment says that you can count formations you take as part of the detachment as well (so long as it's within the boundaries). So does that mean that you couldn't take a Helfast Murderpack and count it as in your Combined Arms Detachment even though it fits the boundaries? And can you take both a Decurion Detachment and a Combined Arms Detachment?

Yes to the first question, they is no rule in the rulebook that disallows a first turn charge completely, there are situations where it is not allowed as mentioned above like infiltrate, scout, etc. There is a Blood Angel formation called Angel Fury Spearhead which can allow a first turn charge from the first turn depending on wither you roll for the formation first turn. It allows units coming in from deep strike reserve to assault if it's within 12" of two of the sotrmravens that can come on first turn. This includes deep strike reserves from drop pods.

bodazoka wrote:
Opponent deploys 24" away

24.1" - you must deploy more than 12" from the center line... so a 10 in charge.

By my reckoning the new harlies with the right formation and warlord trait can make a 33" charge. You can also dance an enemy 2d6" towards you.

(Of course this is based on rules hearsay)

Thanks. But I don't think any of you have asked my final question, though it's quite possible you didn't see it. Can you take both the Decurian detachment and the Combined Arms detachment?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/636048.page

rigeld2 wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Opponent deploys 24" away

24.1" - you must deploy more than 12" from the center line... so a 10 in charge.

Don't think that's a rule in this edition.
"At least 24"" I believe it says now, so exactly 24" is valid.

Of course you can just deploy half an inch back...

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Opponent deploys 24" away

24.1" - you must deploy more than 12" from the center line... so a 10 in charge.

Don't think that's a rule in this edition.
"At least 24"" I believe it says now, so exactly 24" is valid.

Of course you can just deploy half an inch back...

Nope. There's a midline for each deployment type, and 12" in both directions before the deployment zone starts. So exactly 24" is incorrect.

rigeld2 wrote:
Nope. There's a midline for each deployment type, and 12" in both directions before the deployment zone starts. So exactly 24" is incorrect.

Where is the 'thickness' of this midline defined?

 Ghaz wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Nope. There's a midline for each deployment type, and 12" in both directions before the deployment zone starts. So exactly 24" is incorrect.

Where is the 'thickness' of this midline defined?

It doesn't matter. It has a non-existent thickness. Then you have 12" of deadzone in each direction. Which means there's 24" of deadzone you need to cross.
"We’ve found that 12" away from the centre line works best; this ensures that the armies will start at least 24" apart, which makes first turn charges hard to achieve while still giving you enough space on a typical table to deploy your army."

Okay, I see what you're saying - but I would require that anyone claiming a 24" charge is possible get a more precise measuring device than a tape measure.

 marrowick wrote:
Thanks. But I don't think any of you have asked my final question, though it's quite possible you didn't see it. Can you take both the Decurian detachment and the Combined Arms detachment?

Yes. Nothing prevents beyond possible event specific rules. Just remember Units in the CAD can not be units in the Decurian.