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I have not been playing for all that long compared to many out there but the recent change to power weapon functions has been both positive and negative. Power swords in particular because fluff wise they are supposed to be the most superior of power weapon variants as they are the most elegant and masterfully constructed. Termi sergeants come standard with them and so do howling banshees.

To bring them up to fluff standard and up to competitiveness I suggest they be ap 2.
Keep axes as they are and mauls up to ap3 and +1 strength concussive. Now swords won't be a negative on sarges and banshees relevant again. Also units like deathwing Knights will not jut have slapfests with regular MEQs

You want MORE AP2? The game needs less, and less AP3 for that matter. There are a decent amount of Relics that are 'elegant and masterfully constructed' for sword users to wield but your average Sergeant should not have the ability to carve through Terminators and every other 40+pt model because of it. The swords can cut through Power Armor. That's more than plenty.

Heck no, leave my Power Mauls alone! You Marines have NO idea how comforting the ability to strike at S5 really is.

As above. Nothing wrong with power swords seeing as ap3 negates the majority of armour already in the game. Also ignoring all armour in assault at normal initiative will leave power fists a little jealous, Death Company will reign even more terror too, Terminators being laughed at even more.

"Elegant and masterfully constructed" doesn't necessarily mean the "most powerful" or "the best at hacking through armor".
A rapier is an elegant weapon, an axe is a brutal one.
The rapier isn't going to be cutting through armor much thicker than cloth, but the axe will hack through quite a bit of armor.

The problem is that the Power Sword is a more elegant weapon from a civilized age. >.>

Ok I get it nobody likes the idea. Just thought it was closer to the old days when all power weapons ignored all armor. My bad.

We don't need more reasons and ways to slaughter Terminators.

In an ideal world I would love to see negative armour modifiers rather than a flat ap value.

This would work to make a power sword more effective at cutting through 2+ armour than some guardsman's fist.

That said, there are a hundred other complications for such a game mechanic and its effect on game balance.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
In an ideal world I would love to see negative armour modifiers rather than a flat ap value.

This would work to make a power sword more effective at cutting through 2+ armour than some guardsman's fist.

That said, there are a hundred other complications for such a game mechanic and its effect on game balance.

I was just about to bring up the complications for that idea!

 Mordred wrote:
Ok I get it nobody likes the idea. Just thought it was closer to the old days when all power weapons ignored all armor. My bad.

I'd rather respond to the nerf by making power weapons cheaper across the board than by unnerfing power weapons. 15pts for a two-Attacks I4 Sergeant to have AP3 is excessive.

The sword is best at killing MEQ while retaining its initiative. While MEQ is just one section of things out there, it is quite widespread. If you want to kill something else, there are other options, but it’s not like the power sword lacks a niche.

 Nevelon wrote:
The sword is best at killing MEQ while retaining its initiative. While MEQ is just one section of things out there, it is quite widespread. If you want to kill something else, there are other options, but it’s not like the power sword lacks a niche.

if im not mistaken powermauls kill more MEQs than powerswords mathematically speaking

No. Assume you hit with one base str 4 attack. The sword causes .5 wounds, which ignore 3+ armor. The maul causes .83 wounds, then you get the 3+ armor which drops it down to .28 wounds. Swords are better vs 3+ armor.

Personally I will keep my PKs handy :-p I would LOVE to see some kind of different weapon's options for orks but I am happy with S8 (9 on the charge) AP2 and about 4 attacks.

 DarkLink wrote:
No. Assume you hit with one base str 4 attack. The sword causes .5 wounds, which ignore 3+ armor. The maul causes .83 wounds, then you get the 3+ armor which drops it down to .28 wounds. Swords are better vs 3+ armor.

This is assuming you are specifically hitting against t4.
Against a t6 mc with 3+, say a tyrant, carni, necron spyder, etc, the maul and the sword are the same.

On a s4 marine, swords are only the best power weapon against t1-5 models with 3+ specifically. Mauls are better against everything else except for where axes are needed.

As people have pointed out though, swords are still good for a meta game reason; lots of people play marines.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:
No. Assume you hit with one base str 4 attack. The sword causes .5 wounds, which ignore 3+ armor. The maul causes .83 wounds, then you get the 3+ armor which drops it down to .28 wounds. Swords are better vs 3+ armor.

This is assuming you are specifically hitting against t4.
Against a t6 mc with 3+, say a tyrant, carni, necron spyder, etc, the maul and the sword are the same.

On a s4 marine, swords are only the best power weapon against t1-5 models with 3+ specifically. Mauls are better against everything else except for where axes are needed.

As people have pointed out though, swords are still good for a meta game reason; lots of people play marines.

This was my point^ have an exalt

Another problem with swords is that even though their niche is killing MEQs, the guys you want to kill in marine armies are probably not MEQs. Any HQ you want to kill probably has a 2+ armor save from artificer (or TDA) and/or some sort of invuln. So while the sword is the weapon of choice for mulching the rank and file, it’s not what you are going to need when the chips are down and you need to get ready for a real fight.

I think swords are great for giving to assault sergeants. They probably don’t want to be tangling with anything too nasty, so the sword gives them a solid boost to help kill the things you want to engage.

But my HQs I want to be able to deal with all the rough stuff. So while swords are cool and iconic, probably not the best choice.

AP3 is fine.

There's nothing wrong with power swords! The only thing I would change is the axes. For 10pts more I would just have the power fist. I dunno that's just me, I mean some peeps love axes (I'm looking at you space puppies)

They just need to go back to being 10 points each, and they would be fine.

Just needa bring down the cost of power weapons across the board (inclduing power fists) since assault is dead anyway

Why not make them dual profile? You know, a sword is not just for hacking, you can also stab with it maximising it's armor penetration potential.

So, what about:
S: user, ap3
or
can exchange all attacks for a single S: user, ap2 attack

This way you have a single optional ap2 attack. Units with low number of attacks will like that. Like termie sarges who need some love.

 koooaei wrote:
Why not make them dual profile? You know, a sword is not just for hacking, you can also stab with it maximising it's armor penetration potential.

So, what about:
S: user, ap3
or
can exchange all attacks for a single S: user, ap2 attack

This way you have a single optional ap2 attack. Units with low number of attacks will like that. Like termie sarges who need some love.

Isn't there an ultramarine captain who's sword already does that?

 Mordred wrote:
Ok I get it nobody likes the idea. Just thought it was closer to the old days when all power weapons ignored all armor. My bad.

How old do you wanna go? Back in my day, power swords were a pretty weak type of power weapon, but made up for it with the ability to Parry. In modern times, I guess that would translate into a 6+ invulnerable in close combat.

Oh, like swords in necromundula? Where you can parry if you roll higher than the opponent's to-hit roll. It has a wierd unfluffy side-effect of parry being more effective for lower-ws models. While the sword is often depicted as a weapon choice of elite combatants.

Fortunately, we don't use that combat system any more.

Parrying with power swords would make them more attractive. I'd word it as '+1 to its invulnerable save (6+ if no save present)' though.

That's me being a selfish Sororitas player loving the idea of Crusaders with a 2++ though.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Fortunately, we don't use that combat system any more.

Parrying with power swords would make them more attractive. I'd word it as '+1 to its invulnerable save (6+ if no save present)' though.

That's me being a selfish Sororitas player loving the idea of Crusaders with a 2++ though.

To a maximum of 4++

Lets just get power rapiers that are ap2 and make them sort of restricted in just who gets it. Done.

 koooaei wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Fortunately, we don't use that combat system any more.

Parrying with power swords would make them more attractive. I'd word it as '+1 to its invulnerable save (6+ if no save present)' though.

That's me being a selfish Sororitas player loving the idea of Crusaders with a 2++ though.

To a maximum of 4++

3++, please. No need to make it worse than the MoT. Besides, the idea is that if you have a sword-and-shield, you're really well set up to defend yourselves.