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Or we could have them as lightsabers deflecting bullets if the wielder is cewl enough.

 Desubot wrote:
Just needa bring down the cost of power weapons across the board (inclduing power fists) since assault is dead anyway

This. paying the cost of what could be another marine so a guy can wave a sword around and then get shot without ever using it sucks.
I barely ever give power weapons to anyone anymore. I just take more bodies to throw in front of the ion accelerators.

Well when they ignored armor in 5th edition they were completely broken.

 Mordred wrote:
I have not been playing for all that long compared to many out there but the recent change to power weapon functions has been both positive and negative. Power swords in particular because fluff wise they are supposed to be the most superior of power weapon variants as they are the most elegant and masterfully constructed. Termi sergeants come standard with them and so do howling banshees.

To bring them up to fluff standard and up to competitiveness I suggest they be ap 2.
Keep axes as they are and mauls up to ap3 and +1 strength concussive. Now swords won't be a negative on sarges and banshees relevant again. Also units like deathwing Knights will not jut have slapfests with regular MEQs

AP2? The whole point of a power axe is it does more damage, but it's unwieldy. AP2 power swords are completely broken!

So long as my orks can get an AP3 weapon for the first time ever! I would love to equip some random boyz with AP3 weapons (BESIDES BURNA BOYZ) . On that topic. WTF! Either use your flamers to flame things, meaning your close enough to use that template OR! you can make them into AP3 CCW. how does that even work?

 Byte wrote:
Well when they ignored armor in 5th edition they were completely broken.

...? Did Howling Banshees win games single-handedly in 5e? Vanguard Veterans paying fifty points a guy with power weapons?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Well when they ignored armor in 5th edition they were completely broken.

...? Did Howling Banshees win games single-handedly in 5e? Vanguard Veterans paying fifty points a guy with power weapons?

How many draigo stars did we see?

Seems like the problem is the underlying AP system generally, not power swords specifically.

 Desubot wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Well when they ignored armor in 5th edition they were completely broken.

...? Did Howling Banshees win games single-handedly in 5e? Vanguard Veterans paying fifty points a guy with power weapons?

How many draigo stars did we see?

How many power weapon units that weren't protected by 2+/5+, 3+ FNP, and musical wounds broke the game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
Seems like the problem is the underlying AP system generally, not power swords specifically.

I keep saying this but apparently save penalties are too complicated for people.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So long as my orks can get an AP3 weapon for the first time ever! I would love to equip some random boyz with AP3 weapons (BESIDES BURNA BOYZ) . On that topic. WTF! Either use your flamers to flame things, meaning your close enough to use that template OR! you can make them into AP3 CCW. how does that even work?

Well, according to the fluff, the burnas are basically large blowtorches that can double as a flame thrower. So when you're using them as Ap3 weaponry, you're using welding grade, concentrated heat. Not wide spread flesh searing flames.

Ork armies do need wider access to Burnas, and Burnas really should have Chainfist rules for their melee profile.

The 'ignores armour' rule (rather than an AP value) really made 2+ saves kind of irrelevant.

Since most elite units in 2+ armour are assault units (the only real exceptions were broadside battlesuits at the time and since, Devastator Centurions), having a generic spod with the inevitable power weapon ignore it meant you were relying on your invulnerable save for most of the damage.

Paired up with the fact that a lot of these units carry power fists (terminators, obliterators, etc) and you find yourself losing a lot of models before you get to strike.

These days, AP in close combat works better - generally you can afford an unwieldy AP2 weapon if in a 2+ save yourself, because few things can go through terminator plate without also being unwieldy. I'm ignoring relics, here - aside from that it's mostly just Klaives, Warscythes (which whilst not unwieldy will strike after anything that isn't) and stuff carried by monsters and walkers.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ork armies do need wider access to Burnas, and Burnas really should have Chainfist rules for their melee profile.

For a blow torch improvised as a weapon?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So long as my orks can get an AP3 weapon for the first time ever! I would love to equip some random boyz with AP3 weapons (BESIDES BURNA BOYZ) . On that topic. WTF! Either use your flamers to flame things, meaning your close enough to use that template OR! you can make them into AP3 CCW. how does that even work?

You're an Ork. You just believe that it works and it works.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ork armies do need wider access to Burnas, and Burnas really should have Chainfist rules for their melee profile.

For a blow torch improvised as a weapon?

For a specialised cutting device used to break up wrecks - including wrecked starships - for salvage, actually. The Burna is a cutting torch, not a blowtorch, which is more commonly used for welding.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Fortunately, we don't use that combat system any more.

Parrying with power swords would make them more attractive. I'd word it as '+1 to its invulnerable save (6+ if no save present)' though.

That's me being a selfish Sororitas player loving the idea of Crusaders with a 2++ though.

To a maximum of 4++

3++, please. No need to make it worse than the MoT. Besides, the idea is that if you have a sword-and-shield, you're really well set up to defend yourselves.

So my Sorceror in Daemonheart and MoT with a force sword would have 2+/2++? Yes please!

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ork armies do need wider access to Burnas, and Burnas really should have Chainfist rules for their melee profile.

For a blow torch improvised as a weapon?

For a specialised cutting device used to break up wrecks - including wrecked starships - for salvage, actually. The Burna is a cutting torch, not a blowtorch, which is more commonly used for welding.

So look at the in-game precedent for specialised cutting devices used to cut up wrecks. They're called lascutters, they were in the 3e Guard book and are in the Elysians list today, and they allow one S9/AP2 attack at WS1 and I1 in place of your normal attacks.

Turns out a specialised cutting device doesn't make a great melee weapon.