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 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Seeing as their have been a whopping two models shown for this release and their is close to a 100+ different Models and kits in the FW HH line I'm gonna guess that GW will stick with the absolute basics (infantry and HQ) and leave all the "difficult" stuff to FW.

Also FW HH books make geedubs money. Lots of money if their top ten sales emails are to be believed. They're stupid but not suicidal.

I agree, hence why I said it's mildly unlikely(and that's from my own cynical perspective), but it's not outside the realms of possibility for GW to take a sure-thing and do seemingly bizarre and counter-productive things with it(see: Space Hulk, the recent glut of brand-devaluing shovelware game licenses); Heresy makes GW a nice chunk of change through FW, but given the egos sitting at the top table I wouldn't put it past them to groupthink themselves into believing it could make even more money if they took creative control from FW and broke every bone in it's metaphorical body to cram it into an AoS-shaped hole.

The most rational thing - and again, still the most likely, before anyone else throws a hissy-fit at me - is that they'll do exactly what the leak suggests; produce plastics of "core" parts of the range to increase the potential playerbase so extracting more revenue, and freeing FW to either accelerate the HH release schedule or to devote to other projects. But, before AoS lots of folk thought the most rational and likely path for GW to take was to revamp fantasy to lower the barrier to entry, tighten up the rules, and more effectively leverage their rich 30-year old IP, and instead they gave us, well, AoS. Whatever your views on the merits of that series of decisions and the resulting product, they seemed so weird to so many people that a lot of folk point-blank refused to believe it was going to happen even after we started hearing rumours about it.

 JeneralJoe117 wrote:
I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.

I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 JeneralJoe117 wrote:
I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.

I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.

I think that back then it was more from a place of "We're not going to do this anytime soon, but these guys need an answer of sorts, so here's a somewhat tongue-in-cheek 'timeframe' for them!"

And then GW either saw the sales numbers from the BL HH Series and/or did actually get desperate and...here we are!

Most likely a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, or sorts?

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:


Also FW HH books make geedubs money. Lots of money if their top ten sales emails are to be believed. They're stupid but not suicidal.

I present exhibit A: The Hobbit line...

I am pretty sure that they were still under contract with New Line. Plus, the original LOTR stuff did make them a lot of money. I am sure they thought The Hobbit would do the same. And let's be honest. The Hobbit movies were bloody awful...

I think you've got it the wrong way round.

FW has been in tough times. Loss of Games Days and similar events saw their main source of revenue collapse. Pricey and failed experiments like Warhammer Forge on top.

Plastic HH Marines is pushing more people into the game, eventually expanding with FW stuff, especially if the GW version is an Execution-Force-style board game and the "wargame" stays with FW.

This is GW-main giving FW a shot in the arm, not the other way round.

Maybe?

Who really knows?

But was most likely a throwaway joke line has in fact become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Well, if GW really is in trouble, of course.

Wonderwolf wrote:
I think you've got it the wrong way round.

FW has been in tough times. Loss of Games Days and similar events saw their main source of revenue collapse. Pricey and failed experiments like Warhammer Forge on top.

Plastic HH Marines is pushing more people into the game, eventually expanding with FW stuff, especially if the GW version is an Execution-Force-style board game and the "wargame" stays with FW.

This is GW-main giving FW a shot in the arm, not the other way round.

FW Horus Heresy seems to have been doing very, very well. I think them starting that was their shot in the arm.

 ImAGeek wrote:


FW Horus Heresy seems to have been doing very, very well. I think them starting that was their shot in the arm.

In 2012/2013? Big World Eaters display on the UK Games Day, the first HH book, the release of Angron? Black Library not entirely fethed up yet? People queuing for full days to get FW stuff. Sure. It was the good times.

In 2014/2015? I don't think so. No Games Days. Falling attendance of HH-Weekenders? Black Library's HH-series in a total mess, with fewer people caring every day. Bad times, at least relative to those previous years at least (which, like GW's financial reports, it is often the relative drops in sales/revenue people look at).

Wonderwolf wrote:

In 2014/2015? I don't think so. No Games Days. Falling attendance of HH-Weekenders? Black Library's HH-series in a total mess, with fewer people caring every day. Bad times, at least relative to those previous years at least (which, like GW's financial reports, it is often the relative drops in sales/revenue people look at).

Genuinely curious at how you've come to that conclusion. Granted, the Black Library series completely lost me along the way. Forgeworld is the last area of interest for me and my interest in 40k/30k, so I'd hate to see it come undone. Any particular rumours or insights you've heard that you care to share or any patterns you've noticed?

 JeneralJoe117 wrote:
I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.

Nah, it honestly makes sense. Making plastic kits of the basic units frees up a lot of production capacity for FW, allowing them to concentrate on all the far more awesome unique units. The 'break glass' strategy is lowering their prices.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

 JeneralJoe117 wrote:
I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.

I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.

I think that back then it was more from a place of "We're not going to do this anytime soon, but these guys need an answer of sorts, so here's a somewhat tongue-in-cheek 'timeframe' for them!"

And then GW either saw the sales numbers from the BL HH Series and/or did actually get desperate and...here we are!

Most likely a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, or sorts?

Most likely just a logical extension of GW's policy of the last few years of wringing the last few dollars out of grognards drunk on nostalgia by dredging up concepts from before the turn of the millennium.

I'm just now seeing this (and the photos of the sprues)...and I must say that this may get me to spend some money on 40k again, even if it is just to make a small Dark Angels Legion display collection since the game, in its current form, no longer interests me in the least. I would very much like to see the Deimos pattern tanks get a plastic kit. I got one of the forge world ones, and cant justify buying more at their prices, plus the side panels cast in resin just don't hold the precision of a plastic kit and really take some work to look right and flush with the plastic parts of the kit. Apologies if this has been asked and answered already (I don't have time to pick through all 25 pages in this thread), but is there any info an when these are likely to get released?

 zedmeister wrote:


Genuinely curious at how you've come to that conclusion. Granted, the Black Library series completely lost me along the way. Forgeworld is the last area of interest for me and my interest in 40k/30k, so I'd hate to see it come undone. Any particular rumours or insights you've heard that you care to share or any patterns you've noticed?

Do you collect a Heresy army?

If so, how much did you spend on it in GW's financial year 2012/2013 (starting with Angron and the first HH book) compared to GW's recent financial year 2014/2015

Patterns I've noticed are the drop in HH-weekenders, which used to sell out in seconds and don't sell out at all anymore. No Games Days, etc..

Forge World is servicing a loyal audience of 30K-fans, but those people tend to have a large collection by now and mostly buy only pieces. They aren't going to splurge on new armies like they did in 2013.

Without Games Days especially, they are limited in how they bring in "new blood" (even if new blood for FW is veteran GW-customers).

It's also been in the discussion about the "End of Games Days" that this was a huge blow for FW. Not going to dig up the threads and links, but the gist of it was, Games Days were unprofitable for GW-main, because they closed down lots of stores on a weekend (in the US, the UK, etc., where the event happened to be), ferried the staff to the event, paid the venue, overheads, etc.. and rarely sold more than they would've sold in their stores over the same weekend, if they hadn't moved the staff to the event.

Not for Forge World though. No overheads for them, but frequently FW was the "main event" of the Games Day. They certainly were in 2012 in the UK with the launch of 30K. I seem to remember reading on Dakka, that FW revenue was > 50% from Games Days in their heyday, but I could be mis-remembering.

Either way, HH-weekenders and the like are less attractive, as FW has to pay the overheads for those, and while still nice, they service more to the customers already "in" the 30K-hobby. There'll be less people only vaguely aware of FW, who wonder buy and get that "I must play that" moment. FW still sells on "events". That's why they go to Salute, etc... they depend on events like this in ways GW doesn't (I know, same company and all... somebody at GW is still looking what is profitable and what isn't).

Plastic Heresy could well serve that purpose. It shows up in GW stores and will be more visible to "GW-main-customers", enticing them to start a Heresy army. And of course, it could also entice 30K-veterans to start a second (third, fourth) Heresy-army, which they might not have done in resin, if they already the stuff they bought two or three years ago.

Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.

The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.

I highly doubt the release of HH in GW plastic is going to have a negative effect on FW. Not unless it is a sizeable release that cannibalizes sales. From the looks of it, this is a single mark of armor, we have seen nothing to indicate it will be more than that. The terminators look to be monopose, so if you want your own custom stuff, you go to FW. If they do release the Contemptor, it will probably be monopose like the DV Helbrute. If it is a kit, it will probably not have all the weapon options. Want more options? Go to FW.

And that's probably why they did this...

GW plastics at a premium price and you have to pay the FW tax for upgrade bits.

This way FW can go back to focusing on upgrade pieces only and not have to provide a chest piece for everyone.

GW then gets to release a bare minimum of kits focused around their largest customer base. Space Marine.

 Rayvon wrote:

Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.

The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.

Yeah exactly. There's 5 legions still to be released, two being Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, that loads of people are waiting for. And I'm pretty sure the weekenders and open days do sell out still.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Not sure where you got the information about the weekenders, I know people not able to get a ticket for the last one, and I was unable to get tickets for the Forge world open day at the last minute, they do sell out.

The money that went in for the warlord alone shows that there are people out there with plenty still to burn.
There aremany 30k fans that have not yet unleashed their wallets and are waiting for the right armies.

Yeah exactly. There's 5 legions still to be released, two being Space Wolves and Thousand Sons, that loads of people are waiting for. And I'm pretty sure the weekenders and open days do sell out still.

Holding out for Thousand Sons here. And the Open Day 2015 sold out a long time before the actual vent, because I was a bit pissed off I didn't manage to get a ticket in time!

Back in the later days of 2nd Ed, and not too shortly after FW came on the block , the "break glass in case of bankruptcy" joke used to be about the Tom having the Masters to all the Primarchs in a display case behind his desk at GW HQ. The belief back then was the release of those bad boys would be enough to right any sinking ship! Ah the old days.....

Is there no clue when these kits are going to drop?

Seems odd that we've had fairly decent pics, but not a sniff if info about when the release might be...

D

This is just a guess but I get the feeling we will be seeing them sooner rather than later, maybe even August or September if we are lucky.

Given that we did not see any pics of the other models rumoured for the set (Cataphrapctii, the Conteptor, and possibly another 10 marines) I get the feeling that this is a deliberate leak by GW and that they are trying to build up a bit of hype for a new release that is coming up soon, especially as we never get these kinds of leaks these days!

All that being said it does seem a bit odd if it comes out this close to AoS and the new marine codex so perhaps it is going to be a Christmas release?

I wonder if the other rumored 10 marines will be of a different armor Mark. A lot of people really want Mk II or III. I would be okay with it just being another set of Mk IV, but I would also take Mk V.

New Forgeworld webstore (mentioned in the financial report) is set for summer 2015, I guess it would be a good time to release this kit and promote Forgeworld with it. There is a Tau codex rumoured for autumn, so I guess this could mark the end for initial AoS releases.
I'm also guessing late August/September.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 JeneralJoe117 wrote:
I always thought that plastic HH would be GW's 'break glass in case of imminent financial collapse' strategy to keep the good ship Nottingham afloat. Honestly surprised to see it.

I remember years ago (like back in 5th edition 40k) someone at the studio said something similar, but I don't recall what the source was.

I've always heard, and believed, that the break glass action would involve the 2 missing Primachs in some fashion.

They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:

Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.

All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.

The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.

I always thought it was odd GW had a NY Times best selling series and refused to support it with models.

Better late than never I guess.

Why not? They turned a NY times best selling series into a pathetic cash grab of novellas and special editions...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I always thought it was odd GW had a NY Times best selling series and refused to support it with models.

Better late than never I guess.

Nope. They took care of it years ago but not having a NYT bestselling series any more.

 Looky Likey wrote:
They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:

Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.

All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.

The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.

You forgot plastic sisters of battle.

They could always reprint Necromunda,Bloodbowl, Mordheim, epic and gorkamorka without updating the rules

 Theophony wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:
They have a number of things that they could do in a break glass:

Plastic Warhound & Reaver
Plastic Thunderhawk
Release the two missing legions
Plastic 30k
Emp. reborn
etc.

All would sell like hot cakes done well, even done badly would sell like slightly warm cakes.

The only event I've seen struggle to sell out recently was the tank painting event @WHW, they sold one whole ticket by lunch time for it. Everything else has sold out, especially the weekenders.

You forgot plastic sisters of battle.

They could always reprint Necromunda,Bloodbowl, Mordheim, epic and gorkamorka without updating the rules

Pffft, nobody wants those!

I mean Gorkamorka? Nobody finds souped up cars covered in spikes and makeshift guns roaring through the desert with their drivers and passengers hanging off the sides entertaining any more!

No, what people want is yet more variations of plastic space marines which are only slightly different to those already available but double the price. That's what people want.