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As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
Big 'ead

I really wish they hadn't put so much moulded on detail.

Really? I rather like the cross and stuff. Less free hand painting I have to do!

 Guildsman wrote:
As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

Those aren't rivets. They have workers hold the pieces in place and then Knight Titans fire shells at it to hammer them in place...

 Guildsman wrote:
As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

I imagine rivets have to scale up a little bit. Rivets from smaller vehicles probably wouldn't hold this thing together.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

I imagine rivets have to scale up a little bit. Rivets from smaller vehicles probably wouldn't hold this thing together.

Not sure if serious....

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

I imagine rivets have to scale up a little bit. Rivets from smaller vehicles probably wouldn't hold this thing together.

Not sure if serious....

I apologise, my original post was a bit over the top. Just got some bad news and took it out on you. Yeah I was being serious, I'm guessing I was wrong but it was just a guess, it is a huge walking Titan, God knows how thick the metal plates are, I just assumed the rivets might need to be a bit bigger than normal.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

I imagine rivets have to scale up a little bit. Rivets from smaller vehicles probably wouldn't hold this thing together.

Not sure if serious....

I apologise, my original post was a bit over the top. Just got some bad news and took it out on you. Yeah I was being serious, I'm guessing I was wrong but it was just a guess, it is a huge walking Titan, God knows how thick the metal plates are, I just assumed the rivets might need to be a bit bigger than normal.

I think that the bigger question is why one of the most advanced war machines that humanity has ever created, which uses a cybernetic brain link to connect to the pilot, would still be using rivets in its construction.

Maybe they're molecular bonding studs, like the big lugs on the SM plate from the heresy. #grimdarkrollindirty

 Guildsman wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:
As big as that thing is supposed to be, wouldn't those rivets be the size of, like, basketballs at full scale?

I imagine rivets have to scale up a little bit. Rivets from smaller vehicles probably wouldn't hold this thing together.

Not sure if serious....

I apologise, my original post was a bit over the top. Just got some bad news and took it out on you. Yeah I was being serious, I'm guessing I was wrong but it was just a guess, it is a huge walking Titan, God knows how thick the metal plates are, I just assumed the rivets might need to be a bit bigger than normal.

I think that the bigger question is why one of the most advanced war machines that humanity has ever created, which uses a cybernetic brain link to connect to the pilot, would still be using rivets in its construction.

Because rivets work? I dunno. What else would you use?

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, there are no welders, only riveters.

Because, without rivets, skulls, or purity seals covering every square inch of the surface, you would then have people whining about "lack of detail."

Yeah, it is very possible the Titan is actually of welded construction, and that the rivets are purely decorative too. The Titanicus does like it's bling.

Its an old fluff vs the new thing - when the models were first being made they put rivets on as a hark-back to early ironwork.
Rather than admitting a design mistake they got re-classified as 'molecular bonding studs' which is actually quite clever IMHO.
Rivets are actually quite detrimental to a structure because although it is pulling two parts together very tightly it introduces a structural weakness where the holes are drilled - the shape of the rivet and it's installation can create or compound these weaknesses too.

There is a formula for calculating the size and shape of a rivet given a known installation material but beyond a certain size the rivet is causing more problems than it is solving.


edit: and 'spalling' makes rivets on power armour a serious mistake!

edit for spelling

Well, that would be assuming that adamantium responds to forces in the same way as steel, and also assuming that the rivets go all the way through the plate and that power armour has no kind of anti-spalling layer.

 kronk wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
Big 'ead

I really wish they hadn't put so much moulded on detail.

Really? I rather like the cross and stuff. Less free hand painting I have to do!

That's the exact reason I'd not want the fixed detail As I'm planning on having it covered in free hand, as it is such a big canvas to paint its perfect for it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yaraton wrote:
Invictarii helmets look like they've got facehuggers of their faces. Must be the Ultra thing.

It took me awhile, but I think the helmets are supposed to look like they have a phoenix/eagle on them.

Look at the chestplate here and you'll see what I mean:

Like the chest but why does he have a facehugger on his face? oops ninja'd

 Haighus wrote:
Well, that would be assuming that adamantium responds to forces in the same way as steel, and also assuming that the rivets go all the way through the plate and that power armour has no kind of anti-spalling layer.

>sigh<

If the base material is more resistant to compression, the rivets will pop thier heads much sooner and more care must be taken during installation.

Drilling a material always introduces structural weaknesses and can locally promote microvoid coalecance which propogates faults in the structure eminating from stress concentration point (usually an irregularity in the edge of the hole).
Even if you managed to create a perfect hole (due to atomic deposition for example) you have created a structural irregularity which can become a stress concentration point - this is without including weaknesses brought on by cyclical loading and the material fatigue and 'creep' which comes with cyclical loading.

Rivets always go through the material; it relies on the opposing forces to grip the base material sheets together.

Also - a note on 'spalling'; You can't get rid of spalling - if you glue the layer to the inside it peels off after the first strike due to the force of the 'spalled' pieces; if you use bolts then the bolt heads spall off inside. Thats why our army uses 'HESH' rounds


This is why i said i think that the change in name to 'molecular bonding studs' was clever - it introduces a 'miracle exception' where one was most definetly needed!!

Welding also introduces heat fatigue to materials, which is part of the reason aircraft are still riveted. The other reason is because some of the materials they are made of (like aluminum and titanium) are very difficult to weld. Maybe Adamantium just doesn't weld well.

I think of them less like rivits and more like super strong substance specific handwavium magnets

the pieces are separate by held together by an unreakable force generated by the 'magnets'

 greyknight12 wrote:
Welding also introduces heat fatigue to materials, which is part of the reason aircraft are still riveted. The other reason is because some of the materials they are made of (like ALUMINIUM and titanium) are very difficult to weld. Maybe Adamantium just doesn't weld well.

Fixed that for you

The rivets make it grim-dark. Seriously mounting a plasma reactor, void shield generator and rack of turbo lasers on a structure that has 2 legs and the cockpit sticking out at the front isn't exactly optimal for effectiveness.

Maybe rack the rivets up to 'because it looks cool' rather than 'because it's practical'

wtnind wrote:
The rivets make it grim-dark. Seriously mounting a plasma reactor, void shield generator and rack of turbo lasers on a structure that has 2 legs and the cockpit sticking out at the front isn't exactly optimal for effectiveness.

Maybe rack the rivets up to 'because it looks cool' rather than 'because it's practical'

My Space Marines have a layer of unobtanium underneath their ceremite, so the rivets work better than welding.

These other guys seemed to have been given shoddy ceremite.

The Emperor may protect, but a procurement officer worth his salt protects a little more!

Agree on molecular bonding studs being a great workaround, although it isn't true that you cannot get rid of spalling. Cannot get rid of it for rivets perhaps, but Dorchester armour is highly resistant to HESH rounds, and tanks usually have Kevlar liners to reduce the effects of spalling. Yes, the British army still uses HESH rounds, but most armies use solely kinetic penetration rounds for anti-tank purposes, and the British retain HESH rounds simply because they are also very effective against soft targets and structures in addition to their AT capabilities (as well as having a longer range than discarding sabot rounds).

When I said the rivets may not go all the way through, well, they may be used to bond outer layers together, with layers below that made of different materials (such as ceramite) that are bonded in different ways. If I remember correctly, it is the multiple layers of different materials that lends Dorchester armour its anti-spalling capabilities.

Anyway, the whole molecular bonding studs idea does wave it over with technobabble, so there is that.

Hooray for superfluous technobabble? Also - it IS a fictional futuristic universe. Something dosent have to have a reason to exist other then it looks cool. Or adds detail or something. Maybe rivets have a purpose. Maybe they don't. Same as skulls and random hanging pipes and cables. But if we are gonna debate said reality and focus on rivets without talking about pretty much every space marine aircraft .... Or the fact people don't wear helmets - in space..... Or that a SWORD is better in a fight then a gun.... Or that a cannon designed to reduce a city to powder is ineffective against a PERSONAL force field .... Yea.

Plus orkz. Seriously anyone demanding realism, coherence, sense and sensibility from 40k should look at orkz first.

Btw not sure about the Warlord head. The knightish head on knights is the one I like the least and it's all bit too knightly now for me. It was supposed to be like grey knights are knightish and Imperium is bare boned blocky WW I in spaaace. It won't exactly fit to Warhound or Reaver design but to IK instead, who were supposed to be something else entirely. Meh I'll pass. Well I'd pass anyway but Id prefer that it exist for that one special day on shrooms when I decide there's only now in space and natural conclusion, who needs a car.

Yeah, gotta' say, I'm a serious opponent of "it's a setting with magic so why are you questioning basic laws of nature, dummy?", but I can take dumb use of rivets. It's not very believable, but at least they tend towards places where rivets could go and do something (unlike gobs of steampunk where gears and rivets are more likely to be decoration or trim than interacting with things... could really rant on steampunk vs. its origins...).

Also, dark age of technology and all does give decent leeway for improper tech. Who knows what those silly ad mech boys are up to today?

I think it might be time to take the Rivet Talk over to 40K General Discussions, maybe?

thanks!

 Looky Likey wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
Big 'ead

I really wish they hadn't put so much moulded on detail.

Really? I rather like the cross and stuff. Less free hand painting I have to do!

That's the exact reason I'd not want the fixed detail As I'm planning on having it covered in free hand, as it is such a big canvas to paint its perfect for it.

Not trying to be dense here, and sorry if I am, but is there any reason why you couldn't sand off the fixed details you don't like?

 Jaceevoke wrote:
Not trying to be dense here, and sorry if I am, but is there any reason why you couldn't sand off the fixed details you don't like?

Resin at that thickness is both time-consuming to cut and toxic when doing so?

I think it's more accessible to a wider audience* that way since it allows people ambitious enough to do so to remove details (rather than necessitating those who want more to add them, which would be more difficult), but can still be a pain.

*of people willing to spend a huge amount of cash and time on a pretty but presumably rarely-used piece

At the risk of descending into another utterly pointless tangent, resin isn't toxic at any thickness. There's a mild to insignificant risk when breathing in fine particulates without protection (the dust) and that's it.

The detail is there because the guy making it thought it looked cool and that's really all that can be said.

 Alpharius wrote:
I think it might be time to take the Rivet Talk over to 40K General Discussions, maybe?

thanks!

Now, I must insist.

Thanks!