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First, thanks very much judgedoug. Very cool of you.

Regarding the price: If the codex length is accurate (160 pp) what is the big flip out?! Surely you would rather pay $58 for 160 pages than $48 for 100 pages....

The Space Marines codex is exceptional, IMO the best value of any codex printed. Why would an eldar player not want the same for their faction?

Also: Craftworlds make these Eldar distinct from other Eldar, like Exodites and Dark Eldar. Has anyone thought that the 160 page book might include Iyanden? After all, that's a craftworld. And it would make the book a great deal, since you're getting the supplement built in, right?

 Accolade wrote:
It is indeed, most of them are around 100-110 pages. The old Eldar codex from two years ago is in that same range, so either they've added 75+ pages of additional material or they're going for pricing popular books higher, I can't really say which it is they're doing.

I do however think this replacement of hardcover $50+ books every two years is atrocious.

It is supposed to about the same size as the SM codex, so pricing it the same as the SM codex seems fine.

Also, even if we count on a new book every 2 years, is putting aside $2.50 a month really much of a hardship? It's still less than a video game

 Talys wrote:
First, thanks very much judgedoug. Very cool of you.

Regarding the price: If the codex length is accurate (160 pp) what is the big flip out?! Surely you would rather pay $58 for 160 pages than $48 for 100 pages....

The Space Marines codex is exceptional, IMO the best value of any codex printed. Why would an eldar player not want the same for their faction?

Also: Craftworlds make these Eldar distinct from other Eldar, like Exodites and Dark Eldar. Has anyone thought that the 160 page book might include Iyanden? After all, that's a craftworld. And it would make the book a great deal, since you're getting the supplement built in, right?

I'm thinking Iyanden will remain unique.

However...Alaitoc, Altansar, Biel-Tan, Saim Hann and Ultwhe getting some love might be well worth.

I don't think that it's based on releasing books every 2 years. Not 100% sure but I thought that for 6th it went DA, CSM, Daemons, Tau, Eldar. At worst I've got Tau and Eldar mixed up. Any of those books would need a re-release too and if it was an every two year thing would have been released. Eldar are still a holdover of specific designers doing books (just like the other mentioned). That said they are probably one of the more popular and they have new models available so it's first.

Expect them to finish out the 6th edition books and then mostly focus of supplements or books like Harlequins, Daemonkin, and Skitarii.

I hope Iybraesil and the other smaller craftworlds get some love. That'd make my GF mighty happy.

Only the most popular factions get a codex every edition; others, like Blood Angels and Dark Angels get skipped often.

I would not mind all of the main codices (Eldar, SM, Ork, Tau, DE, Necron, Tyranid, CSM, IG) getting a refresh every 2-3 years. That's 3 main books a year, no biggie. Subfactions like covens, SM chapters, and minor factions like IK every 5 or 6 years depending on model drops.

The funny thing is, GW can't win. CSM want a book sooner, some want Eldar later... Lol.

 ronin_cse wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
It is indeed, most of them are around 100-110 pages. The old Eldar codex from two years ago is in that same range, so either they've added 75+ pages of additional material or they're going for pricing popular books higher, I can't really say which it is they're doing.

I do however think this replacement of hardcover $50+ books every two years is atrocious.

It is supposed to about the same size as the SM codex, so pricing it the same as the SM codex seems fine.

Also, even if we count on a new book every 2 years, is putting aside $2.50 a month really much of a hardship? It's still less than a video game

The issue to me personally is what is the value in these two year rules release cycles? You get books that are rather regurgitated, if not in fluff then essentially in rules. The biggest things people seem to want is some units to be improved, but why does that require a whole new book every two years? Inevitably some units will be buffed and then others inexplicably nerfed...there can (rarely) be universal improvement, and even then you get two years before something changes.

And some might say "it's the same thing for games like CoD" and they'd be largely right too. I don't see value in buying things as essentially a subscription without offering changing content.

There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

would love to see farseers become 1-3 per HQ slot. that would make me happy.

 danjbrierton wrote:
would love to see farseers become 1-3 per HQ slot. that would make me happy.

That wouldn't make much sense neither fluff- nor game-wise, would it?

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

Except that 7th edition dropped after two years to replace 6th... and now this replaces the eldar codex after two years... and we've got rumors of replacement tau and space marine codex books coming this year as well. That, my friend, is a trend. GW is not suddenly going to get less desperate or greedy given the past decade.

Mymearan wrote:

 danjbrierton wrote:
would love to see farseers become 1-3 per HQ slot. that would make me happy.

That wouldn't make much sense neither fluff- nor game-wise, would it?

Are councils strictly warlocks and 1 farseer?

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

I believe Dark Angels and Chaos are rumored to be coming about sometime in the near future, although I think their releases will be closer to 2.5 years.

I just don't understand what the point of a new book for the Eldar is, other than GW can't accept releasing new models without a corresponding book. Is it just the hatred of the wave serpent that makes people want to see a new book come about? I mean, I realize there are other units that could use tune-ups too, but it's not like GW is working towards perfecting their rules, so that can't be an aspiration of the book.

EDIT: also what warboss said pertaining to new books.

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

Except that 7th edition dropped after two years to replace 6th... and now this replaces the eldar codex after two years... and we've got rumors of replacement tau and space marine codex books coming this year as well. That, my friend, is a trend. GW is not suddenly going to get less desperate or greedy given the past decade.

Yes, and from what I understad they replaced 6th so quickly because there were so many problems with it. I also understand they are now trying to make sure every book is updated to the current edition before moving on

There will almost certainly be a Seer Council formation with 1 Farseer and 2-whatever Warlocks/Spritseers. Expect Warlocks to be promoted to full HQ status like Crypteks.

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

Except that 7th edition dropped after two years to replace 6th... and now this replaces the eldar codex after two years... and we've got rumors of replacement tau and space marine codex books coming this year as well. That, my friend, is a trend. GW is not suddenly going to get less desperate or greedy given the past decade.

It's a trend that they're updating books for 7th edition, not that they're doing new editions every two years, which has only happened once. We have seen a lot of new stuff from GW recently, who would have predicted mini-codices a couple of years ago? There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.


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 Accolade wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There isn't a trend yet, we don't know if there even is a two-year cycle. They dropped 7th and now they're quickly trying to update all codices to that format. After that, who knows? They might just keep doing mini-codices like Harlequins and Skitarii and drop 8th in 2018.

I believe Dark Angels and Chaos are rumored to be coming about sometime in the near future, although I think their releases will be closer to 2.5 years.

I just don't understand what the point of a new book for the Eldar is, other than GW can't accept releasing new models without a corresponding book. Is it just the hatred of the wave serpent that makes people want to see a new book come about? I mean, I realize there are other units that could use tune-ups too, but it's not like GW is working towards perfecting their rules, so that can't be an aspiration of the book.

EDIT: also what warboss said pertaining to new books.

Well, it's a 6th edition book created with the 6th edition mindset, with FoC-changing characters, no formations, etc. Same as Dark Angels, Chaos and Tau. That's a reason for updating it. If there's no 8th next year, there won't be any need to update the 7th edition codices. So until we know for sure that they're moving to a two-year cycle for edition updates, I don't think we should assume it.

Mymearan wrote:
There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.

You're just guessing/hoping there, not following any current data. The current data suggests they're on a 2 year rules cycle instead of a 4-5 year one that they previously used.

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.

You're just guessing/hoping there, not following any current data. The current data suggests they're on a 2 year rules cycle instead of a 4-5 year one that they previously used.

Using ONE data point as a predictor of all future outcomes is also guessing.

I think it's utilizing multiple points. Back when 6th gave way to 7th, it was hard to argue it was a trend obviously since it was just that one instance, but if these other couple of books are to be updated, then that represents another couple of points.

And this isn't GW trying to get everything up to the same edition going on with the codexes from 6th, they are just trying to establish a pacing they want to have books coming out at. I honestly don't understand how everything they do gets rationalized into some mindset of them working to goals with the game that are not simply them trying to generate as much venue as possible. The astronomical prices of these new LE products show that GW is just trying to get the maximum amount of money out of the smallest number of customers possible to limit the needs of infrastructure and thereby increase profit. I don't blame them necessarily for trying to do that, but I'm not going to pretend that they have any other goals in mind.

Mymearan wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
There's no reason to think 8th will drop in 2016 with a subsequent update of all codices based solely on the fact that 7th came two years after 6th.

You're just guessing/hoping there, not following any current data. The current data suggests they're on a 2 year rules cycle instead of a 4-5 year one that they previously used.

Using ONE data point as a predictor of all future outcomes is also guessing.

The rulebook and this codex make two and last I checked two data points make a line/trend. The rumors of the multiple upcoming books will likely constitute #3-#5. Depending on whether the Iyanden and Farsight books are invalidated as well if they're not compatible with the new versions of the core books, they might end up #6-7. The two year rules life cycle is officially here. If you had said a couple years ago that there was no way GW would replace 6th edition and that those 50% more expensive hardback codex books they were coming out within two years, you'd have been just as wrong but at least there you would have had the past backing you up. If you're fine with this new current trend of GW fleecing you every two years, so be it.. just get your head out of the sand and stop pretending that this will stop at some imaginary point that you've deemed appropriate. You can *HOPE* they won't rehash the 7th edition codex books. The fact is that GW officially just got 300% more expensive to keep up with on the rules side. Previously you had $30-35 codex books replaced every 4-5 years and you now have $50 books (or technically $58 in this case) being replaced in 2 years. I don't think that is acceptable from a consumer standpoint. It's a douche move when Mantic and Dream Pod 9 do it and it's a douche move when GW does... unfortunately, it's becoming common in the industry.

The eldar had too many 6th ed specific rules to keep it in 7th without a major overhaul with the faq.

They had the jetbikes ready for years, they just decided to put out the wraith blades alongside the new knight.

They got a huge jump in sales from people spamming waveserpents for two years.

There is also the chance they are hearing the complaints about the old dex, and are overhauling it to make people happy. They started writing codecies as a group instead of single writers.

There are a lot of reasons for the two year cycle. There is a new ceo, there were going to be changes implemented to shove the company back to a more stable place at the top. I can't wait to see what happens

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The eldar had too many 6th ed specific rules to keep it in 7th without a major overhaul with the faq.

This. Eldar has so many things that don't work right in 7th Ed with the change to the Psychic Phase. With a new Harlequin Codex, they have to go back and update Eldar to remove the redundant units from the Codex.

Whereas CSM is basically so mild of a Codex that it requires little to keep it in line with 7th Ed in comparison.

 Accolade wrote:
I think it's utilizing multiple points. Back when 6th gave way to 7th, it was hard to argue it was a trend obviously since it was just that one instance, but if these other couple of books are to be updated, then that represents another couple of points.

And this isn't GW trying to get everything up to the same edition going on with the codexes from 6th

Honestly, how do you know that?

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The eldar had too many 6th ed specific rules to keep it in 7th without a major overhaul with the faq.

They had the jetbikes ready for years, they just decided to put out the wraith blades alongside the new knight.

They got a huge jump in sales from people spamming waveserpents for two years.

There is also the chance they are hearing the complaints about the old dex, and are overhauling it to make people happy. They started writing codecies as a group instead of single writers.

There are a lot of reasons for the two year cycle. There is a new ceo, there were going to be changes implemented to shove the company back to a more stable place at the top. I can't wait to see what happens

I don't really see how any of those (barring the people being unhappy with the last book) benefit us instead of just GW's pockets. Why not release the jetbikes at the same time? So they can warrant a new codex release in the future by dividing out releases over time? (personally I think the reason the jetbikes didn't get released earlier was because they weren't yet a dual-kit, and GW wanted to make sure they could cover all of their bases, hence the jetbikes didn't get released).

The waveserpent thing, it sounds like they're selling as many wave serpents as possible before they gimp them and make something else the new black. And I don't understand how the new CEO (who seems to just be a puppet for Kirby, who is still largely in control as chairman) is instilling confidence in anyone other than stockholders by maintaining a release rate of codexes at twice the speed of a few years ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I think it's utilizing multiple points. Back when 6th gave way to 7th, it was hard to argue it was a trend obviously since it was just that one instance, but if these other couple of books are to be updated, then that represents another couple of points.

And this isn't GW trying to get everything up to the same edition going on with the codexes from 6th

Honestly, how do you know that?

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

 Accolade wrote:

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

More accurately, I'm hoping it's not. My take is that they released 7th, and now they want all the codices to be tailored to the new edition. Thus the accelerated release pace. When they're done with updating the 6th codices, they can slow down the updating and focus on more new stuff like Harlequins, AdMech, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch and other rumored stuff. That way they can keep releasing new toys to make them money without the need to maintain the current rapid pace of updates. I don't see this theory as more or less likely than yours, but it's my guess.

Mymearan wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

More accurately, I'm hoping it's not. My take is that they released 7th, and now they want all the codices to be tailored to the new edition. Thus the accelerated release pace. When they're done with updating the 6th codices, they can slow down the updating and focus on more new stuff like Harlequins, AdMech, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch and other rumored stuff. That way they can keep releasing new toys to make them money without the need to maintain the current rapid pace of updates. I don't see this theory as more or less likely than yours, but it's my guess.

Oh, I certainly hope they don't either. I'd much prefer them to stabilize the game and, if not balance, at least populate it with a number of new books and balance the pricing they're asking for said books. I think the models are premium quality, but the books really aren't. Hopefully the Skitarii book will represent some forward direction in that, I don't necessarily think that'll be the case but I do hope so nonetheless.

Spending a week in the release cycle to update an older book is probably a solid plan. Every single Eldar player will likely pick up the new book. Whereas, with a model release, or an update of an older model, not every player of that army will pick it up for various reasons. Updating the books is probably much easier to do as well.

That's what got said about the supplement books in 6th. Oh they're just cranking out the main codexes so they can focus on supplements until the new edition comes out in 4-5 years time. And then 7th happened. I don't believe GW will wait a couple years after they've updated all the codexes to release 7th, they never have before. That's a datapoint right there.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Spending a week in the release cycle to update an older book is probably a solid plan. Every single Eldar player will likely pick up the new book. Whereas, with a model release, or an update of an older model, not every player of that army will pick it up for various reasons. Updating the books is probably much easier to do as well.

I just think that's bad for the overall health the game. They're going for short-term profits while burning more and more customers who are getting exhausted of the pace they need to maintain to stay current with their army and the game itself. Again, they might not care because if GW could get their customer base down to a few thousand who spend an exorbitant amount on the game (greater than say $5,000 a year), then whose to say they shouldn't? It just makes me sad to see 40k going the the direction away from inclusivity and towards Apple/Porsche-emulating elitism. Long ways from the days of 5th...

Well anyway, I've taken up more of this thread than I deserved, so I'm going to leave it at that.

 Accolade wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Spending a week in the release cycle to update an older book is probably a solid plan. Every single Eldar player will likely pick up the new book. Whereas, with a model release, or an update of an older model, not every player of that army will pick it up for various reasons. Updating the books is probably much easier to do as well.

I just think that's bad for the overall health the game. They're going for short-term profits while burning more and more customers who are getting exhausted of the pace they need to maintain to stay current with their army and the game itself. Again, they might not care because if GW could get their customer base down to a few thousand who spend an exorbitant amount on the game (greater than say $5,000 a year), then whose to say they shouldn't? It just makes me sad to see 40k going the the direction away from inclusivity and towards Apple/Porsche-emulating elitism. Long ways from the days of 5th...

Well anyway, I've taken up more of this thread than I deserved, so I'm going to leave it at that.

I'm not convinced it actually burns players. It's exciting to get your Codex updated. Maybe it burns a bit for players who are less invested and for whom the two-year old Codex seems "just like yesterday". But they were probably already burned by GW anyway. The pace of updates keeps things fresh and exciting.