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Mymearan wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

That last bit is my opinion. But I think we're at the same point in this. We see the past few points of two-year releases, I'm saying it's the future trend and you're saying it's not. There's not much further we can go with it.

More accurately, I'm hoping it's not. My take is that they released 7th, and now they want all the codices to be tailored to the new edition. Thus the accelerated release pace. When they're done with updating the 6th codices, they can slow down the updating and focus on more new stuff like Harlequins, AdMech, Genestealer Cults, Deathwatch and other rumored stuff. That way they can keep releasing new toys to make them money without the need to maintain the current rapid pace of updates.

I think the rapid release schedule is here to stay for exactly this reason. By splitting up the range (Skitarii separate from a larger AdMech release, Harlequins, etc) and having smaller releases (like these jetbikes plus a clampack or two) GW can keep much of the range feeling fresh most of the time with less effort than they needed before. The traditional monthly release of a codex plus ~5-6 new kits is now a thing of the past, GW could only ever manage a handful of them a year which inevitably left a lot of people alienated as their favoured army didn't get any attention.

40k is the main product for GW. Any slowdown it sees is only ever going to be a temporary one, such as for a new WHFB edition. After that we're back on the 40k train. Toot toot.

I am excited for and as an eldar player that they are getting an update now instead of later.

As someone who goes to tournaments, owns wave serpents(just bought my third one), has played wave serpents, and hates wave serpents, I would happily pay just to see that unit officially nerfed.

That unit was so powerful that I bet while wave serpent sales went up, so many other unit sales went down it was a net loss for them. That unit single handedly eliminates entire army builds. There are so many models that I want to play, so many armies that I want to put on the table and actually take to a tournament(since that is the main time I really get to play now-a-days). Then someone mentions "wave serpents" and its back to the drawing board. It is a unit that removes skill from the game as a factor, I can bring a good all rounder army and as a pretty decent player do well, however wave serpents no matter the skill level of the player will have a solid chance of just killing me and there is little to nothing I can do about it.

Think of the heldrake and ovesa star back in 6th edition, grey knights at the end of 5th. That model single handedly removed entire potential armies from the game and forced a complete meta shift and made armies that normally wouldn't work super powerful, or forced armies that are not fun to play or play against as they were the only thing that you could play.

Your armies primary requirement will not be "can I survive 5 wave serpents and then kill them". This will cancel out some of the deathstar builds as now msu like rhinos will be much more useable. While there will always be something that is unbalanced.

I was talking to my friend and once wave serpents are gone I believe the meta is gonna go crazy for awhile. I have a full imperial motor pool that has not seen the light of day because of wave serpents. Rhinos, Chimeras, AV 11/12 vehicles will see a resurgence. More elite infantry will be much more use able since there is not going to be as much fire power you have to survive. Really, once the that unit is gone we will have to re-evaluate almost all of the books since the edition dropped. I have already started making lists for a post wave serpent world and let me tell ya, I am excited.

I think most of the worst offenders will have been taken care of with this book (wave serpent, heldrake, ovesa star). Now all we need is limit the randomness that is daemons(or just remove the re-roll mechanic from the tzetch saves, just make it +1 like it used to be and give it a cap). Even knights are not that bad(outside the ad lance).

I think the game in all aspects will benefit from a new eldar book(assuming they keep on the same trend that that started with most books since tau and eldar).

They just have to turn Wave Serpents into normal assault transports with super weapon powers.

 Shandara wrote:
They just have to turn Wave Serpents into normal assault transports with super weapon powers.

I agree, leave them as in but make them assault vehicles, maybe add an extra 5 pts

jesus christ GW cannot win man. 4 years ago people wouldn't stop with how their codex never got updated, the rules are out of date, etc etc... now GW kicks it up to 11 with releases and people are complaining or predicting doom and gloom because they cant keep up with the game... its ridiculous.

Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

So does this mean we're going to have 'Craftworld Tactics' with the exception of the special snowflake craftworld of Iyanden

Looks distinctly possible, and the Iyanden supplement disappeared with the old book, so they're quite possibly in there too.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks the game has seen a pretty big boost in quality with 7th, especially concerning codex balance. So to me they are getting better.

Have to agree 7th is far better than 5th or 6th much more entertaining.

As for the codex release can see it being small rule changes that will add up to something really good but different to how eldar are played now. And with the all important detachments and cards to bring them up to 7th edition codex and also maybe move the story along a bit since harlequins have the master plan to kill slannesh and save the eldar race by wakening the eldar god of death. In other words eldar are coming out swinging all or nothing no more just for survival but because they have a beef.

I'll add to the chorus, since I'm loving 7th edition.

I even enjoy the codex a month thing they have going.

Well, enjoying Randomhammer is people's right I guess.

I'm enjoying stepping back and playing other games, where I kick myself for making the wrong choices if I lose, not lamenting I didn't roll enough 6s.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

What?? This may be my opinion and I may be alone on this but, 7th edition is by far the most fun I've had playing since the end of 4th. Both from a competitive and casual standpoint. I don't want to go off topic for too long, but the tourney scene is pretty diverse, they have taken steps to mitigate the spam and death stars, even if it was accidentally.

Casually I am seeing more and more of the people that hadn't played in a while come back to try out new things, as well as newer players picking up the box deals which are further discounted by 3rd party sellers. Thus letting them start out relatively cheap.

To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

And bringing balance to a codex that definitely needs it, IS doing ''feth all'' about the quality... so you literally just countered yourself in your own argument...

you can call it random but if the same person wins adepticon 3 years in a row with 3 very different lists is demonstrable proof the 40k at higher levels is a skill based game.

I bought 4 codexes for my armies during 6th edition and now that I'm supposed to buy at least three more $50+ books in the coming months according to the rumors. No, I'm not a fan either of the force fed apoc into 1500pts edition nor am I a fan of the 300%-500% increase year over year in codex costs per army. I'm likely not the only one considering that sales and profits are down year over year for several years now according to GW's own reports. The cash cow herd is thinning. Factoring in the cost of the hardback rules for 3rd edition, that's over $200 worth of books that is being made obsolete in HALF the previous product life cycle both for the industry and for this company in particular and that is just what is rumored for the coming 6 months.

 Cheebs wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

What?? This may be my opinion and I may be alone on this but, 7th edition is by far the most fun I've had playing since the end of 4th. Both from a competitive and casual standpoint. I don't want to go off topic for too long, but the tourney scene is pretty diverse, they have taken steps to mitigate the spam and death stars, even if it was accidentally.

Casually I am seeing more and more of the people that hadn't played in a while come back to try out new things, as well as newer players picking up the box deals which are further discounted by 3rd party sellers. Thus letting them start out relatively cheap.

To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

And bringing balance to a codex that definitely needs it, IS doing ''feth all'' about the quality... so you literally just countered yourself in your own argument...

We will see about balance. I haven't played much lately, but the few games I have played were very one sided, with uber netlists and the overpowered models winning the game. Though that was admittedly against 6th edition codeciis.

Let us not turn a thread about Eldar into a discussion about whose opinion is most right.

I dont expect Wave Serpents to survive intact just like MSS got nerfed

But with Necrons, other buffs possibly might make them better overall

 Cheebs wrote:
To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

I'm glad you only apparently play one army and don't buy the rules either. If you do buy the rules and/or play more than one army, it is just $50-60 every 2 years. With this new scheme of more expensive hardback books along with shortened life cycle, they're tripling or more the year to year cost of just keeping current with the rules (and quintupling it if you bought your books early in 4th/5th with the previous life cycle). That isn't inflation or game balancing but pure greed. If they were interested in game balance, they'd re-evaluate the points of trouble units on a yearly basis and come out with much more useful and current FAQ/errata.

 Cheebs wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

What?? This may be my opinion and I may be alone on this but, 7th edition is by far the most fun I've had playing since the end of 4th. Both from a competitive and casual standpoint. I don't want to go off topic for too long, but the tourney scene is pretty diverse, they have taken steps to mitigate the spam and death stars, even if it was accidentally.

Casually I am seeing more and more of the people that hadn't played in a while come back to try out new things, as well as newer players picking up the box deals which are further discounted by 3rd party sellers. Thus letting them start out relatively cheap.

To me buying a 50-60$ book every 2 years isn't a huge deal... since a new video game that comes out almost monthly will cost the same.

And bringing balance to a codex that definitely needs it, IS doing ''feth all'' about the quality... so you literally just countered yourself in your own argument...

I'm with you. I think 7th is better than 6th in pretty much every meaningful way, and other than Decurion, there's nothing that's come out in a book since 7th that's felt lopsided. Even so, Wraiths aren't (nearly) as bad as GK Psychic in previous editions or WS Spam. Compared to 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd -- it's just a better game, IMO.

I get that for a lot of people, 40k is too expensive, and fair enough; there are a lot of cheaper ways to entertain yourself. I also get that some people feel that there are too many models, or they don't enjoy spending hundreds of hours assembling and painting 150 game pieces, and can't imagine buying gaming pieces regularly to add to their collection/army. That just means 40k isn't for them.

However, I'm pretty happy with the game, I look forward to pretty much every codex release, and I like that there are new models that I'll enjoy every month, if not most weeks. I have friends who really like 40k, there are more people that seem pretty decent who approach me at local stores to join their play groups than I could possibly have time for, and my favorite couple of stores don't seem like they're having trouble staying in business. So... all is well for me.

Also, I think the models are getting better and better, and frankly, the cost per model from GW is relatively good, compared to other companies with an aesthetic that I like. I don't really care that it takes 100 to 200 models an army; in fact, I prefer it, because that's 1000 to 2000 hours of entertainment in getting the army ready. If the game had only 10 or 20 models, I'd only have 100 to 200 hours of entertainment preparing my army; and if they're monopose models, what do I do after that?

Where 40k really falls short is where there is not a meeting of the minds of players: when the opponents want different things out of the game, it ends up not really being fun for either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Every codex is NOT printed every 2 years. List them out; it simply isn't so. Eldar are the first one this has ever happened to. Some major factions like Necron and Orks didn't even get a 6e codex; the average is more like 4 years.

Eldar - 2013, 2015 (2 years)
Grey Knights - 2011, 2014 (3 years)
Blood Angels - 2010, 2014 (4 years)
Dark Eldar - 2010, 2014 (4 years)
Necron - 2011, 2015 (4 years)
Tyranids - 2010, 2014 (4 years)
Imperial Guard - 2009, 2014 (5 years)
Space Wolves - 2009, 2014 (5 years)
Orks - 2008, 2014 (6 years)
Tau - 2013 -- ? (will be 2+ years)
Space Marines - 2008, 2013, -- ? (will be 2+ years)
Chaos Space Marines, Demons, 2012 -- ? (will be 3+ years)
Dark Angels will be at least 2 years (2013), Sisters, Inquisition, who knows when they will get love.

The vast majority of GK, BA, Tyranid, Ork, Space Wolves, DA, Necron, IG, etc. players were eagerly awaiting their new codex.

Some Eldar players now are just deathly afraid of a nerf to their precious Wave Serpents.

No one is saying every codex has been redone every 2 years in the past but rather that this is now a pattern with GW to redo rules every 2-3 years for the forseeable future from now on. Eldar is the first codex but the second rulebook. We have rumors that another three are on the way (Tau, DA, and SM).

 warboss wrote:
No one is saying every codex has been redone every 2 years in the past but rather that this is now a pattern with GW to redo rules every 2-3 years for the forseeable future from now on. Eldar is the first codex but the second rulebook. We have rumors that another three are on the way (Tau, DA, and SM).

6e to 7e rulebook and ONE codex (out of that huge list that I just wrote out, which most codices have been upgraded to 7e) doesn't really make "a pattern". Next year, if there is a new Dark Eldar, Grey Knight, Blood Angels, Orks, and Space Wolves codex, I will eat my words.

Also, to me, 3 years is a big difference from 2 years. 2 years is a bit quick; 4 years (look at Blood Angels, for example) feels like forever.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

Prices are actually staying stable, even going in a sane direction for once. Skitarii troops- cheaper than scions or tactical marines. Skitarii codex- smaller, and actually priced to match. Ruststalkers- priced cheaper than terminators.
New Eldar- codex costs more, but is apparently SM codex sized, and the same price (no increase). Bikes at $42 or so matches all the other 3 bike boxes.
Updating Eldar DOES make a major shift in the top end of the meta, and likely will improve the game.

From the releases and rumors, it looks like Eldar will get a book, a 3 bike box of windriders/shining spears with parts for a warlock, a foot autarch clampack, and a farseer on bike clampack. Then the old Autarch on bike finecast is repackaged in direct as a "Classic" model just like the old shadowseer and death jester were for harlequins, and the old jetbikes and shining spear upgrades will be packed together in a "classing shining spears" to get rid of inventory and let people with the old models bulk up their units without having to mix in the new style.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

If this is your opinion.. why are you even here? I mean, jeez, it sounds like you gave up on the game a long time ago.

Honestly though, I think GW is doing it right. I think Eldar players, when they see the new book (rumored to be 168 pages long), they're going to HAPPILY chuck the old rulebook and pick up the new one.

I don't even play Eldar and I'm really looking forward to seeing that new plastic Autarch. I've always loved the lore and look of the Autarchs.

 warboss wrote:
No one is saying every codex has been redone every 2 years in the past but rather that this is now a pattern with GW to redo rules every 2-3 years for the forseeable future from now on. Eldar is the first codex but the second rulebook. We have rumors that another three are on the way (Tau, DA, and SM).

GW's only pattern is their lack of pattern. They change horses mid-race so often that by the time the race is run they've been on every single one!

drbored wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

If this is your opinion.. why are you even here? I mean, jeez, it sounds like you gave up on the game a long time ago.

Ok, well if you say it, it must be so!

Right?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

Ramping up the schedule and jacking up the prices whilst doing feth all about the actual quality of the game was not the right way.

Prices are actually staying stable, even going in a sane direction for once. Skitarii troops- cheaper than scions or tactical marines. Skitarii codex- smaller, and actually priced to match. Ruststalkers- priced cheaper than terminators.
New Eldar- codex costs more, but is apparently SM codex sized, and the same price (no increase). Bikes at $42 or so matches all the other 3 bike boxes.
Updating Eldar DOES make a major shift in the top end of the meta, and likely will improve the game.

You're looking in a bit narrow of a timeframe.

Compare 5th to 7th rulebook prices, or the sudden spike with the switch to HB Codexes. Recent stabilising is possibly a symptom they realised they were pushing their upper price band to its limits and made the decision to scale back to try and recover some of the lost revenue.

@Azrael - you're right that the price of books jumped a lot when they went hardcover. But keep on mind, the price of ALL books have shot up dramatically.

I certainly believe GW saw hardcover as a means of maximizing revenue (by justifying a pricier product with no alternative). I also don't disagree with GW stabilizing prices because they think they can't raise them any more without losing more than they gain.

Where we differ is that I don't really have a problem with any of that. It's GW's job to figure out how much people will pay for a book just like it's Cineplex Odeon's job to figure out how much people are willing to pay for a movie ticket. Profit maximization is their goal, not to make things more affordable for us -- though often, those might intersect (at the right price it encourages more gamers, thus also more profits).

I guess I just have no expectation that GW price their products any differently than Nestle or Apple or Kraft would, none of whom really care about affordability other than as a factor of profit.

GW has cranked their prices since they told themselves what they make are "collectibles" despite having practically no resale value.

And we all know eldar are getting smashed by a nerf hammer, if the army is usable I'd be surprised. My wraithguard army is waiting to see if its taking a trip to Ebay

Right now all we have is the Wave Serpent. I'd love to get a fully useable dex, but honestly I see Bikes becoming the new wave serpent while the other stuff falls to GW's rules incompetence.

 Ravenous D wrote:
GW has cranked their prices since they told themselves what they make are "collectibles" despite having practically no resale value.

And we all know eldar are getting smashed by a nerf hammer, if the army is usable I'd be surprised. My wraithguard army is waiting to see if its taking a trip to Ebay

The resale value of GW toy soldiers is actually silly high. On EBay, stuff sells for nearly as much as discounted new. And, you can actually break them up and sell them for more. Imagine Transformers, Voltron, Robotech, etc., which really have no resale value.

By the way: Necron were nerfed all to hell right?