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Maybe the rules will get amended if they're too bad...we can hope

 warboss wrote:

Going vegan then or just ovolactovegetarian? (looking at your sig)

Has to be vegan. He's swearing off cheese.

 warboss wrote:

 Thud wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Guys, calm down. All this has been forseen long ago by the wise and ancient Farseer Gav Thorpe who guided the threads of the warp to coalesce in this version of Codex: Kraftworld Cheddar. As it was in the midst of 3rd edition, so shall it be yet again for your own good and the sake of the game...

The return of the Alaitoc disruption table basically confirmed then?

We haven't been previewed those pages yet but your skill at casting the cheesecubes of fate is strong indeed! At $58, it's equal to the price of the marine book so might have pages devoted to rules for each kraftworld just like the marine codex does for chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Sigh, GW was doing so well with their books until now.....but this...this just crosses the line.

O well......

Going vegan then or just ovolactovegetarian? (looking at your sig)

Lol, nah I got my crabs on the way and more FW than I can count.

I am not complaining so much as sad. I still like a majority of the game and most of it is positive. Doesn't mean I dont know crap when I see it. Based on their last books I was excited but them changing it up so I could bring a bunch of armies I wanted to play. Like I was looking forward to getting a PS2 on christmas and I got a used NES.

Luckily I cant see a sane TO allowing this to fly so there is that.

 Great White wrote:
Maybe the rules will get amended if they're too bad...we can hope

Ha!

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Great White wrote:
Maybe the rules will get amended if they're too bad...we can hope

Ha!

I know I couldn't help but laugh writing that

 Great White wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Great White wrote:
Maybe the rules will get amended if they're too bad...we can hope

Ha!

I know I couldn't help but laugh writing that

The sad thing is that they probably will... for $65 in 2017.

 warboss wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Great White wrote:
Maybe the rules will get amended if they're too bad...we can hope

Ha!

I know I couldn't help but laugh writing that

The sad thing is that they probably will... for $65 in 2017.

After two years of gak and tears

 warboss wrote:
The sad thing is that they probably will... for $65 in 2017.

Don't be such an optimist. It's going to be $75 in early 2016.

At nearly $14 a jetbike, how many can you afford to spam ?

It's like when people where talking about Necron Tomb Blades a couple months back. Sure they are cool, but the average player is not going to own 10, let alone 30 of them

 adamsouza wrote:
At nearly $14 a jetbike, how many can you afford to spam ?

It's like when people where talking about Necron Tomb Blades a couple months back. Sure they are cool, but the average player is not going to own 10, let alone 30 of them

Is that really the point though?

 adamsouza wrote:
At nearly $14 a jetbike, how many can you afford to spam ?

It's like when people where talking about Necron Tomb Blades a couple months back. Sure they are cool, but the average player is not going to own 10, let alone 30 of them

I really don't understand how "don't worry, it's just going to reward the players who have more money than you" is supposed to be a comforting thought.

I could see the more zealous fans dropping a couple hundred or a few thou

 ImAGeek wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
At nearly $14 a jetbike, how many can you afford to spam ?

It's like when people where talking about Necron Tomb Blades a couple months back. Sure they are cool, but the average player is not going to own 10, let alone 30 of them

Is that really the point though?

Yes, and no. Yes, because if you take Grotesques ask an example, they INSANELY expensive and I don't know anyone that spams them. I would love to own 20, but that would be $500 for jack all in models, LOL. I mean, what possessed them to make them in singles for $25, and deploy them in 3's.

No, because, $14 a jetbike is not really that expensive. Times 30 models, that's $420 MSRP, and after some discount that you will surely get for buying TEN boxes of them, it will be closer to $300. If you were to put scatter lasers in them all, that would be 27 point models, or 810 points -- and $300 is about right for somewhere between half and a third of an army.

 Talys wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
At nearly $14 a jetbike, how many can you afford to spam ?

It's like when people where talking about Necron Tomb Blades a couple months back. Sure they are cool, but the average player is not going to own 10, let alone 30 of them

Is that really the point though?

Yes, and no. Yes, because if you take Grotesques ask an example, they INSANELY expensive and I don't know anyone that spams them. I would love to own 20, but that would be $500 for jack all in models, LOL. I mean, what possessed them to make them in singles for $25, and deploy them in 3's.

No, because, $14 a jetbike is not really that expensive. Times 30 models, that's $420 MSRP, and after some discount that you will surely get for buying TEN boxes of them, it will be closer to $300. If you were to put scatter lasers in them all, that would be 27 point models, or 810 points -- and $300 is about right for somewhere between half and a third of an army.

Even if they were prohibitively expensive, it doesn't excuse how unbalanced the rules are, is what I meant.

And you'd still find people that would pay it, I wager.

Some wallets are about to start forging some hefty narratives, I can tell you that much.

That would be the intended short term effect.

There are enough scatter lasers and bikes around in just bits that people will make it happen.

Its more about just how far it crosses the line. While I didnt like wave serpents I could handle it, there were at least some ways to deal with it.

There is literally nothing you can do about that level of fire power.

For that many points marines cant even get that many BOLTER shots. at the cheapest it costs 1400 points in rapid fire range to get 200 bolter shots. Eldar bikes get 40 for 270. 1350 for 200 str 6 shots at 36.

Nothing can survive that kind of fire power for that many points. Like I said I am a lover of the game, and overall they have done a great job with most of the recent books, really since the last eldar codex(baring few exceptions). I have no idea what they were on when they priced these.

This is the first book where I can see people straight up saying "NO" and modifying the rules, same with troops with D weapons and the like. If half of what we have seen is correct and not errataed by GW itself I cant see a reasonable tournament allowing Eldar as they are. Even without the context of the rest of the book it is ridiculous.

We have different opinions on what is expensive then.
10 boxes @ $41 + 3 boxes @ $33

$509 ($407.20 after 20% discount) for only 960 points of an army is still beyond what most players are willing to spend in my experience.

How many White Scars biker armies do you see in your meta ?

It still isn't the point though. It doesn't change the fact the rules are ridiculous, and the possibility is there.

I think we should petition GW to change the name of the Codex to Kraftworlds

 warboss wrote:
Guys, calm down. All this has been forseen long ago by the wise and ancient Farseer Gav Thorpe who guided the threads of the warp to coalesce in this version of Codex: Kraftworld Cheddar. As it was in the midst of 3rd edition, so shall it be yet again for your own good and the sake of the game...

Props to Warboss for coining the new internet name for the new eldar codex! Codex Eldar: Kraftworlds.


Curious that the jetbikes get a full supply of upgrade weapons when the skittarii didn't.

I recon that every serious eldar player has been waiting for these plastic jetbikes for many years and they will put the coin into getting multiple full squads - plus, there are folks out there who already did the army of jetbikes thing so you will definetly see the hilarious amount of shots if you see jetbikes.

 adamsouza wrote:
At nearly $14 a jetbike, how many can you afford to spam ?

It's like when people where talking about Necron Tomb Blades a couple months back. Sure they are cool, but the average player is not going to own 10, let alone 30 of them

It's not like jetbikes weren't popular before this. Every Eldar player I personally know has at least 20 of the things, and I was under the impression that jetbike lists were rather popular at one time. I'm not an Eldar dude myself but I can't even tell what they changed with these new models, aside from the pose of the rider.

My point is that there are plenty of jetbikes already out there. Wraithknights, too, were extremely popular before this codex. I think there are plenty of people who have existing armies that just turned into solid gold.

Refresh my memory, I dumped my Eldar codex weeks ago when the rumors of the new release started, can Jetbikes hit and run, or can we tarpit them in assault ?

You know, I have to applaud GW for bringing the community together like this.

Finally, we can (almost) all stand here, nodding in agreement for once, that this book is completely idiotic and, at least for this moment in time, GW has given up all semblance of balance to sell the huge stockpile of Eldar jetbikes they must have amassed since the kit was first showcased at least 8 years ago.

Kumbaya, my brothers.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Even if they were prohibitively expensive, it doesn't excuse how unbalanced the rules are, is what I meant.

And you'd still find people that would pay it, I wager.

I don't disagree -- I'm just pointing out that there have been some unbalanced units that don't get abused (or, as much) because of REALLY high model costs, or at least, incredibly low perceived model value.

At the price that the bikes are now, it isn't a cost barrier at all. It isn't any more expensive (dollar per point) than Imperial Knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Accolade wrote:
You know, I have to applaud GW for bringing the community together like this.

Finally, we can (almost) all stand here, nodding in agreement for once, that this book is completely idiotic and, at least for this moment in time, GW has given up all semblance of balance to sell the huge stockpile of Eldar jetbikes they must have amassed since the kit was first showcased at least 8 years ago.

Kumbaya, my brothers.

I wouldn't actually pass judgment on the codex, til we see the book, and know how much all the units cost in terms of point values (also, what some of the special rules do). The jetbikes look really solid, for sure, though.

 adamsouza wrote:
Refresh my memory, I dumped my Eldar codex weeks ago when the rumors of the new release started, can Jetbikes hit and run, or can we tarpit them in assault ?

As per the last codex, they do not have the Hit and Run special rule.

 adamsouza wrote:
We have different opinions on what is expensive then.
10 boxes @ $41 + 3 boxes @ $33

$509 ($407.20 after 20% discount) for only 960 points of an army is still beyond what most players are willing to spend in my experience.

How many White Scars biker armies do you see in your meta ?

Yeah, cause nobody out there has any Eldar Jetbikes already out of the last 20 years or so of their existence.

I've also got a load of SM bikes, certainly enough to field a respectable 1500 WS list, that I haven't is purely because I don't play unpainted and I've yet to get up the momentum to do them. Took all of two months to pick up 30 or so mostly either NOS or grey plastic on eBay, and not a lot of cash.

 adamsouza wrote:
Refresh my memory, I dumped my Eldar codex weeks ago when the rumors of the new release started, can Jetbikes hit and run, or can we tarpit them in assault ?

Are you thinking of Battle Focus? Lets you shoot and run or run and shoot (during the shooting phase). If so, yes -- both the old and new jetbikes have battle focus. But, we don't know yet if battle focus has changed (I doubt it, but who knows).

 Talys wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
You know, I have to applaud GW for bringing the community together like this.

Finally, we can (almost) all stand here, nodding in agreement for once, that this book is completely idiotic and, at least for this moment in time, GW has given up all semblance of balance to sell the huge stockpile of Eldar jetbikes they must have amassed since the kit was first showcased at least 8 years ago.

Kumbaya, my brothers.

I wouldn't actually pass judgment on the codex, til we see the book, and know how much all the units cost in terms of point values (also, what some of the special rules do). The jetbikes look really solid, for sure, though.

I think jetbikes alone do it. As you posted, the new kit comes with three scatter lasers- they're TELLING customers to buy this kit so you can crush your enemies with nary a thought in your head. Wraithknights and wraithguard *sound* to be boosted if they are running around with D weapons (though it doesn't sound like it's been figured out if they're template weapons).

Personally, I really just want to see wave serpents lose laser lock, and then drop by 30 points to "balance" out the loss of the ability.

I was waiting to buy the Bikes for when the sculpt got updated. Sadly, now I HAVE to buy the bikes if I want to use the Decurion formation thing. I am not a fan of the Guardians or the heavy weapon of Vaul models. I was hoping for a core Decurion that was based on Aspect warriors. So I guess I am only doing CAD's and maybe the mini formations within the Decurion.