Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Chad Warden wrote:

bullyboy wrote:
Eldar are specialists.......yes, all of their aspects got cool stuff, the bikes are great etc etc. A player is going to have to choose what to take, he can't have everything.

What exactly are jetbikes specialized against again?

Losing games?

So farseers got better and still remain too inexpensive.

So in a council of 1-3 warlocks to make it cheap, the farseer can manifest powers on a 3+ using one less die with that artifact (WC 1 invisibility anyone) and gets to reroll one power a turn...a TURN! So he can reliably cast invisibility using one die now (3+ with reroll on 1 die)... Yea good job Fail Kelly.

 Red Corsair wrote:
So farseers got better and still remain too inexpensive.

So in a council of 1-3 warlocks to make it cheap, the farseer can manifest powers on a 3+ using one less die with that artifact (WC 1 invisibility anyone) and gets to reroll one power a turn...a TURN! So he can reliably cast invisibility using one die now (3+ with reroll on 1 die)... Yea good job Fail Kelly.

Let's see the rule first... it may be that you have to nominate one psyker's own power list to use the council ability. Thus, if you do, you don't get to use the other psyker's power. But, eh... yeah, even then, that's pretty good.

 whembly wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
So farseers got better and still remain too inexpensive.

So in a council of 1-3 warlocks to make it cheap, the farseer can manifest powers on a 3+ using one less die with that artifact (WC 1 invisibility anyone) and gets to reroll one power a turn...a TURN! So he can reliably cast invisibility using one die now (3+ with reroll on 1 die)... Yea good job Fail Kelly.

Let's see the rule first... it may be that you have to nominate one psyker's own power list to use the council ability. Thus, if you do, you don't get to use the other psyker's power. But, eh... yeah, even then, that's pretty good.

Ha ha yea I was going to say...

For Orks...

Bring Zhardsnark.

12" Scout, 12" movement, turbo boost 24" and then Tankshock with his rule... in first turn. (may have to target an Eldar vehicle first in order for that to work... then multicharge whenever possible).

Beardy... but effective.

Just one idea to counter all them jetbikes. (not a hard counter by any means, but it's something).

Chad Warden wrote:
"Eldar are specialists" is up there with "Eldar are fragile", "Eldar are expensive" "Eldar are hard to play". Just myths people use to justify OP.

Guardians are generalists IIRC. The statement is true for the aspects though, and it does appear they did them right, though one I didn't see was the Crimson Hunter Aspect.

 whembly wrote:
For Orks...

Bring Zhardsnark.

12" Scout, 12" movement, turbo boost 24" and then Tankshock with his rule... in first turn. (may have to target an Eldar vehicle first in order for that to work... then multicharge whenever possible).

Beardy... but effective.

Just one idea to counter all them jetbikes. (not a hard counter by any means, but it's something).

can't assault after scout moves. Moronic restrictions to assault are what makes these shooty lists almost uncounterable.

 whembly wrote:
For Orks...

Bring Zhardsnark.

12" Scout, 12" movement, turbo boost 24" and then Tankshock with his rule... in first turn. (may have to target an Eldar vehicle first in order for that to work... then multicharge whenever possible).

Beardy... but effective.

Just one idea to counter all them jetbikes. (not a hard counter by any means, but it's something).

What are you talking about. Zhadsnark has a 6 up armor save. How is one tankshock by one T6 6+ model going to counter jetbikes?

I really wanna know if the WArhosts ability of always run 6" applies to all squads in it or just Guardians, because if it's all squads that's kind of bonkers.

I've flipped through a bunch of pages from here and the Warseer thread and I can't find it... what are the leaked Wraithguard and D-weapon rules?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 whembly wrote:
For Orks...

Bring Zhardsnark.

12" Scout, 12" movement, turbo boost 24" and then Tankshock with his rule... in first turn. (may have to target an Eldar vehicle first in order for that to work... then multicharge whenever possible).

Beardy... but effective.

Just one idea to counter all them jetbikes. (not a hard counter by any means, but it's something).

can't assault after scout moves. Moronic restrictions to assault are what makes these shooty lists almost uncounterable.

Zhardsnrak has special rule that he can as he's not actually declaring assault (to bypass that "no assault after scout moves" restriction... hence, my beardy comment):

The kicker there is that the jetbike can decide not to declare Death or Glory... which would leave Zhardsnark's unit out in the open, although, he's unit would be rocking 2+ coversave at that point. The jetbike need to decide if they're going to shoot and assault Zhardsnark's unit (not a good idea), or move far away as possible , but just within range to shoot at them. That movement, may expose them to the rest of the Ork's army. However, if Zhardsnark's unit targets an Eldar vehicle first using that move, I think he'd be in base-to-base in auto-assault... then, multicharge if other units in range.

Hey... if Eldar is bring , so can the orks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:

 whembly wrote:
For Orks...

Bring Zhardsnark.

12" Scout, 12" movement, turbo boost 24" and then Tankshock with his rule... in first turn. (may have to target an Eldar vehicle first in order for that to work... then multicharge whenever possible).

Beardy... but effective.

Just one idea to counter all them jetbikes. (not a hard counter by any means, but it's something).

What are you talking about. Zhadsnark has a 6 up armor save. How is one tankshock by one T6 6+ model going to counter jetbikes?

By getting into combat... Zhadsnark gives zero feths about his armours save against puny eldars in combat.

He only gets in combat if they decide to perform a death or glory attack in response to his tank shock.

 TedNugent wrote:
He only gets in combat if they decide to perform a death or glory attack in response to his tank shock.

Right*... if they don't, then what? You've got a large biker squad in your midst rocking 2+ jink saves, T5, having FnP if a painboy is there. Better hope you have Dark Reapers. (ignores jink if I'm not mistaken).

You'd have to focus the majority of your firepower to get rid of that unit. And that's a good thing for orks.

I don't wanna turn this into a Theoryhammer/YMDC discussion, but the point I was trying to elucidate is that it isn't all doom & gloom.

Maybe I just like a challenge.

*at that point, hope they pass LD... or they may run off the board!

Do we know if the Warhost provides a 6" run move for all models in the Warhost or just Guardians?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've flipped through a bunch of pages from here and the Warseer thread and I can't find it... what are the leaked Wraithguard and D-weapon rules?

D-Scythe. - Flamer Strength D (but -1 on the D-Weapon table).
Hvy D-Scythe - Strength D Blast weapon (but -1 on the D-Weapon table)
Wraithcannon - 12" Strength D. Default weapon of Wraithguard
Hvy Wraithcannon - 36" Strength D. Default weapon of Wraithknight.

5 Wraithguard (with Wraithcannons) for 160 pts.
1 Wraithknight (with Hvy. Wraithcannons) for 295 pts.

Sorry if there're mistakes, but mostly this should be it.

Not sure about AP values.

Then Mr. wraith knight gives you some CC vitamin D fallowed by some size 1300 steel toe stomps


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wonderwolf wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've flipped through a bunch of pages from here and the Warseer thread and I can't find it... what are the leaked Wraithguard and D-weapon rules?

D-Scythe. - Flamer Strength D (but -1 on the D-Weapon table).
Hvy D-Scythe - Strength D Blast weapon (but -1 on the D-Weapon table)
Wraithcannon - 12" Strength D. Default weapon of Wraithguard
Hvy Wraithcannon - 36" Strength D. Default weapon of Wraithknight.

5 Wraithguard (with Wraithcannons) for 160 pts.
1 Wraithknight (with Hvy. Wraithcannons) for 295 pts.

Sorry if there're mistakes, but mostly this should be it.

Not sure about AP values.

All AP 2

No seriously does the Warhost provide all models in it a 6" move because if Aspects kept Battle Focus then they turned the army into a Quasi Beast army.

 whembly wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
He only gets in combat if they decide to perform a death or glory attack in response to his tank shock.

Right*... if they don't, then what? You've got a large biker squad in your midst rocking 2+ jink saves, T5, having FnP if a painboy is there. Better hope you have Dark Reapers. (ignores jink if I'm not mistaken).

You'd have to focus the majority of your firepower to get rid of that unit. And that's a good thing for orks.

I don't wanna turn this into a Theoryhammer/YMDC discussion, but the point I was trying to elucidate is that it isn't all doom & gloom.

Maybe I just like a challenge.

*at that point, hope they pass LD... or they may run off the board!

How do you have a 2+ biker squad performing a tank shock? Where does it say you can do that?

Page 166 under Independent Character
"Special Rules -
When an independent Character joins a unit, it migh have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

Dread Mob formation page 17

Da Beast
When Turbo Boosting, Zhadsnark may move up to
24" rather than the usual 12". In addition, at the
beginning of any Turbo Boost move he may declare that
he will Tank Shock. When making a Tank Shock move
Zhadsnark is treated as though he was a vehicle with the
Tank type and the Tank Shock is carried out normally,
however he must move at least 12". If an enemy model
declares a Death or Glory attack on Zhadsnark whilst
he is Tank Shocking then it inflicts a single automatic
hit with one weapon (either shooting or close combat).
Resolve this hit normally. If Zhadsnark is wounded
(whether or not he makes a save), he becomes locked in
combat with the unit and is placed in base contact with
the model that inflicted the wound, and the Tank Shock
ends. If the hit fails to wound Zhadsnark then the model
that attempted the Death or Glory attack is removed as
a casualty (regardless of wounds or saves of any kind)
and Zhadsnark continues to move.

^ Doesn't say anything about the unit he's a part of. It says specifically that Zhadsnark can elect to make a 24" turbo boost and perform a tank shock as described above.
I don't see how you have the entire unit of warbikers performing a 24" turbo boost and a tank shock as this is not part of their special rules and nothing in the content of the rule as written above on page 17 confers that rule upon the unit he's a part of.

 whembly wrote:
By getting into combat... Zhadsnark gives zero feths about his armours save against puny eldars in combat.

I hope you speak like this when playing

Phoenix Lords:

Asurmen (220)
4++ (3++ if fighting in a challenge). Gets 1D3 Warlord traits. Sword is +1S, AP2, Mastercrafterd. For each wound take a Ld test. If failed model dies.

Jain Zar (200)
When fighting in a challange, Jain Zar chooses a weapon of is opponent. He may not use this weapon. If done so, Jain Zar has -1A. Enemy models at +6" get -5 to WS (Mínimum 1). Her sword is AP2, Shred.

Karandras (200)
When arriving from reserves can choose any border. His mandiblaster ignores ALL saves.

Fuegan (220)
He gets +1S and +1A for each lost wound.

Baharroth (170)
When DS all units at 6" are treated as hit by a weapon with the Blind SR.

Maugan Ra (195)
Can fire his Maugetar twice per turn (That means 8 S6 Rending shots). Maugetar has an alternative profile: Assault 1, S1, Poison 2+. If one model dies, put 5" marker. All models under the template get a S5 AP4 hit.

On top of that, they have as well the rules listed for their Aspects.

Random question
Does this strength D on distort weapons effect Illic Nightspear's rifle

so this is all GWs doing right? Not that I'm defending them....I know they produce crap rules, I'm not deluded otherwise. However, if the player base, mister WAAC, mister TFG, etc didn't always try to spam everything that might be slightly unbalanced, star this, star that, then things would be just fine. Anybody really think that 3 jetbikes with shuricannons is that bad? What about deppstriking Falcons with 5 dragons, and 2x5 banshees in the other 2? No...players have to spam, and so my sympathy is pretty minimal.
I know what this game is, and I know what the general player base is like (at least at stores) and so I am content to play in my group that doesn't have to worry about this stuff.

Your anecdotal experience is not universal and cannot be applied everywhere.

Hollismason wrote:
Your anecdotal experience is not universal and cannot be applied everywhere.

agreed, and I know that people often have no choice but to play pick up games, or that people enjoy tournaments, but there's no point sticking one's head in the sand. we all should know by now exactly what GW does, year in year out, why are people surprised? Yes I play Eldar, but I also have DAs so according to this forum I now have armies on both ends of the spectrum, but i will gladly play both without complaints. I don't come to GW for their rules, I come for the nice models and a chance to throw a few dice with some buddies.

It'll be interesting to see what FW come up with for the Warp Hunter.

 TedNugent wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
He only gets in combat if they decide to perform a death or glory attack in response to his tank shock.

Right*... if they don't, then what? You've got a large biker squad in your midst rocking 2+ jink saves, T5, having FnP if a painboy is there. Better hope you have Dark Reapers. (ignores jink if I'm not mistaken).

You'd have to focus the majority of your firepower to get rid of that unit. And that's a good thing for orks.

I don't wanna turn this into a Theoryhammer/YMDC discussion, but the point I was trying to elucidate is that it isn't all doom & gloom.

Maybe I just like a challenge.

*at that point, hope they pass LD... or they may run off the board!

How do you have a 2+ biker squad performing a tank shock? Where does it say you can do that?

Ork Warbikers gets +1 to jink when flatting out. So, jinking Warbikers get 3+ jink save flatting out. Throw in Zhardy, he has skilled rider witch confers to unit, thus warbikers are getting the 2+ (although Zhardy get 3+ only since "Da Beast" isn't an Ork warbiker).

Spoiler:

Page 166 under Independent Character
"Special Rules -
When an independent Character joins a unit, it migh have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

Dread Mob formation page 17

Da Beast
When Turbo Boosting, Zhadsnark may move up to
24" rather than the usual 12". In addition, at the
beginning of any Turbo Boost move he may declare that
he will Tank Shock. When making a Tank Shock move
Zhadsnark is treated as though he was a vehicle with the
Tank type and the Tank Shock is carried out normally,
however he must move at least 12". If an enemy model
declares a Death or Glory attack on Zhadsnark whilst
he is Tank Shocking then it inflicts a single automatic
hit with one weapon (either shooting or close combat).
Resolve this hit normally. If Zhadsnark is wounded
(whether or not he makes a save), he becomes locked in
combat with the unit and is placed in base contact with
the model that inflicted the wound, and the Tank Shock
ends. If the hit fails to wound Zhadsnark then the model
that attempted the Death or Glory attack is removed as
a casualty (regardless of wounds or saves of any kind)
and Zhadsnark continues to move.

^ Doesn't say anything about the unit he's a part of. It says specifically that Zhadsnark can elect to make a 24" turbo boost and perform a tank shock as described above.
I don't see how you have the entire unit of warbikers performing a 24" turbo boost and a tank shock as this is not part of their special rules and nothing in the content of the rule as written above on page 17 confers that rule upon the unit he's a part of.

You can conga line, as long as all models are within 2"... not as hard as you think it is. Zhardy's turbo has to move at least 12", so in order to make contact and be with unit coherency, he can turbo 14".

I've pulled this off a few times... but, alas no one has elected to Death or Glory.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
I keep coming back to see more rumors and I keep seeing people complaining. I literally have to dredge through the whining to find stuff from the book...

If you're just looking for information it does kind of suck to wade through a bunch of posts to look for new updates.

Some suggestions I can make if it really is too much would be to wait for one of the various 40k blogs to post a summary, or the OP to update, or check the source of the rumours themselves over at Warseer.

Or find the one person actually posting the information and click "Filter Thread", oh snap a whole thread of useful information and very little pointless back and forth. So glad I found it when the Astra Militarum info was coming out.

 Red Corsair wrote:
and gets to reroll one power a turn...a TURN!

Sorcerers re-roll every power every time. Where's your fauxtrage for that?

While everyone's freaking out - why not take a peak at a tourney scene and see how the guys are taking it:

My local tourney scene (Game Empire Pasadena):

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/629731.page

They joke about St D a few times but display no dismay. Just saying, everyone isn't losing their gak.

Anyone know if Ghosthelms are still in?