Manchu wrote:
I just like the idea of Eldar patiently raging hard according to their thousand-year plans.

 Manchu wrote:
"What are you doing 3000 years from now?"

"Raging hard."

:: patiently-executed high five ::

Relapse wrote:

Your 100 BS4 poison shots would do 2.5 wounds.

 adamsouza wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Your 100 BS4 poison shots would do 2.5 wounds.

BS 4 = 66% to Hit
Wound on 6 = 16% to Wound
3+ Armor = 33% to Penetrate Armor

100 x .66 x .16 x. 33 = 3.48

 SilverDevilfish wrote:


A 33% chance to ignore a wound is an overall 50% increase in durability.

9 x 2/3 (5+ FNP = 2/3 chance to wound) = 6

9/6 = 1.5 aka 50% increase.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Your 100 BS4 poison shots would do 2.5 wounds.

BS 4 = 66% to Hit
Wound on 6 = 16% to Wound
3+ Armor = 33% to Penetrate Armor

100 x .66 x .16 x. 33 = 3.48

You left out feel no pain.

Nocturnus wrote:
What about The Avatar, any news on him (it)? I heard LOW, but other than that, no changes.

rollawaythestone wrote:
I heard he gives out Furious Charge and Rage, in addition to Fearless within his 12" bubble. He is also +2 Str in Close Combat, but no longer can buy the exarch upgrades (as they were removed from the codex).

 pretre wrote:
That's a great counts as for the sword/shield knight.

 pretre wrote:
Darn. I was hoping it was closer. That's not a good one.

 krodarklorr wrote:

gungo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Everyone take a shot. He finished on a 'L2P' statement.

I think less than a page back people pointed out the ridiculousness that the only defense for some of these buffs was 'Learn to Play'. Because clearly knowing how to play clearly makes all the difference when one ancient master is armed with a wooden sword and the other has a full nuclear arsenal. Of course.

Easy to tell someone it's all skill when the deck is now stacked in your favour.

Okay fine, my opinions are invalidated. Say what you will. In my meta, we have few Eldar players, and they're very respectable. If they wanna bring a strong list, we'll bring a similar list and have a fun game. If not, we'll adapt our lists as well. And I didn't know what he was bringing against me. He likes Footdar, yes, but he rarely uses Serpents. And he figured, since it is Newcrons, he should probably bring a few, and use his Wraithknight. I said bring it on. And with the new codex, the same list he just played wouldn't have gotten any better, at all. In fact his firepower would've decreased since the Serpent shield was fired quite a few times that game.

I'm not accusing people of "L2P". I'm just saying, think tactically, assess his current threats, focus what needs to be fired at first, and think of positioning of your units. This isn't new to anyone, but it's simple things like that in the face of a new "OP" codex that will help you out. It's tactics like that that has allowed my Nids (I use Warriors, Primes, gaunts, and other various MCS, I don't spam Lictors or Flyrants) to defeat Tau every time I've gone up against them, even though I should've lost.

So, don't mind me then. I'm simply saying Eldar will not dominate any more than they did, if anything, probably less. But we'll see in a few weeks.

You are correct. Most of the old elder aspects and stuff could of used some help. And it sounded like your buddy wasn't spamming serpents or bikes or wraith Knights. The good news is most everything elder had got buffed including a lot of things that could use a slight bump. You really only needed to worry about serpent spam until recently and elder were still a top placing army. The bad news is Knights recieved a massive boost in durability and firepower and it doesn't match the cost. Serpent spam fire power was basically given to jet bikes for cheaper and more plentiful. And. Few random str d shenanigans. The nerfed str d defy the stuff isn't going to be much an issue its still just a str 10 ap2 gun with a multi wound and 33% chance to do nothing with the added benefit of ignoring fnp/reanimate. So unless you friend spams knight and bikes your going to be fine. For most people we now just need to figure out how to handle mass str 6 on a durable platform and insane mobility.

Well, to be completely honest, I would love someone in my meta to spam bikes. I would love it. 270 points for 10 models, and they can't touch my vehicles? I'll drop a monolith on them, have guys come out, and shoot up the bikes. Then, Wraithguard will taste my Particle Whip. Yeah, I just went there. Using one of the worst units in my codex to counter their cheese. And the Wraithknights? Yes, they are waaaaay undercosted. But, if they have Strength D, they have no invuln, and their firepower isn't ridiculous. They could probably go 3-4 turns only killing a few rhinos at best. Or maaaaybe a land raider. And if they have the other loadouts, well, one need to be in CC, in which case is vulnerable to shooting, and the other one is the same as it is. And, since Serpent spam is no longer a thing, people have to invest points into other options for anti-tank and the like. So yeah, that's all I'm saying.

gungo wrote:

If your going to through anecdotal opinions at least stick with one army instead of trying to downplay the changes. If you drop a monolith by 10 bikes then this wraithknight will blow it up with 2 range str d weapons with rerolls to hit. There is absolutely no reason why it would shoot at a couple of rhinos. Then you fire your scatter laser at a different target and charge them for extra lols. However none of this matter because I don't expect range double d wraith knights to be legal at any tourney or most local clubs.
Seriously str 6 can't touch your vehicles? I didn't realize every necron vehicle had rear armour 13+. And all your infantry was immune to 40x str 6. I dont know why your arguing this everyone knows the wraitknight was undercosted and so are skimmers as well as being the only troops in game able to run around with relentless heavy weapons for all.

 Raesvelg wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

Are you being obtuse or just missing the point? Stomps are not something that you should just take out of the complete assault picture because they don't happen in a vacuum. Nothing to my knowledge just has stomp attacks ergo, it's ridiculous to simply say that stomps are unreliable as they don't happen alone, singular, outside of the other things that occur as part of the entire assault phase.

You made my point for me in the second section of your post. By your reasoning, all attacks are unreliable because you have to roll to hit and then to wound and then you don't know if your opponent will make one of several saving options so you estimate what your damage will be. That's the nature of the game and when you're using a model with a stomp attack, you don't just look at the stomp and say, "gee, I better not assault because if I just get one stomp, I won't do hardly any damage", no, you're thinking, "Ok, I've got a shot at a wound with HoW, then my 5 attacks, then possibly 1-3 stomps afterwards." Notice, 1-3 stomps...at least one. So, in my example, I'm basically getting at least 2 auto-hits, one from the HoW and one from a stomp (possibly 2 more if I roll well). An average of 2 stomps per turn which gives me an average 2 in 12 chance for a 6. Those are not crappy odds from a freebie at the end of assault.

Anyway, think what you like. It's quite possible we're talking past each other here anyway. Cheers.

Indeed, it's possible we're talking past each other, though I'd posit that your original post indicates that you knew exactly my point: that you can't rely on getting the 6 on the Stomp chart. You can rely on getting a couple S6 AP4 templates, and that's what I'd figure as the average on any SHW/GC charge: I get my HoW, my attacks +1, and at the end of combat (and pile-in moves) I can expect a specific number of Stomp hits at S6 AP4 (which will probably not be incredibly damaging to things that can ignore its AP).

If I'm gonna charge an IK at a unit of Terminators, for example, I'll figure I probably won't kill one with HoW, I'll kill one or two with regular attacks, and then its down to Stomps. And I can't rely on that 6 wiping them out; I can expect maybe one Termie to die to Stomp a turn, depending on how many there are under the template, etc. In subsequent rounds, I can expect to kill about one or two Terminators a turn consistently.

If they've got Powerfists, I'm probably safe. If they've got Chainfists, the 3-4 that survive my initial charge will be hitting me... 3-4 times, and I can expect to lose 2-3 Hull Points as a result. If I eyeball the math real quick before I make that charge, I can figure out that if I don't get lucky with Stomps, there's a fair chance that I'll either get destroyed in that combat, or that I'll stagger out with only 1-2 HP remaining. And I can't count on getting lucky with Stomps, because they're unreliable vs high durability models like Terminators.

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:

LOL WUT

 Galef wrote:

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:

LOL WUT

Stomps are unreliable because they are only D3 small blasts (I do not know why everyone thinks you automatically get 3 of them?). For each blast, you roll and on a 1 that blast does nothing, 2-5 it is str6 AP4. This means that even Marines may go unharmed.

It is only on a 6 that a stomp blast removes models under it. While this is clearly very powerful, it take a bit to get there. Stomps are best to help the SuperHeavy Walker or Gargantuan Creature prevent chaff units from tarpitting them.