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 docdoom77 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
There's a guy posting photo's on 4chan right now, actually.

Linky bits?

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/39484213/sup-guys

All leaks correct. Wraithguard get Strength D. Unbelievable.

Dark Eldar have things like ossefactors and flesh gauntlets up the wazoo if they want them.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
There's a guy posting photo's on 4chan right now, actually.

Linky bits?

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/39484213/sup-guys

All leaks correct. Wraithguard get Strength D. Unbelievable.

I'd be interested to see the points costs. I don't know what they are now, but has there been anything said about points increase/decrease on units?

I'd be mildly ok with most things if they got more expensive.

Requizen wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
There's a guy posting photo's on 4chan right now, actually.

Linky bits?

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/39484213/sup-guys

All leaks correct. Wraithguard get Strength D. Unbelievable.

I'd be interested to see the points costs. I don't know what they are now, but has there been anything said about points increase/decrease on units?

I'd be mildly ok with most things if they got more expensive.

Wraithguard receive no points increase. You pay 32 pts for a Strength D gun. Wraithknight went up to 290, as has been discussed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:

Warp spiders can elect to blink 2d6 when targeted with a weapon. The shooter cannot select a new target. If the spiders do this, they can't warp jump next turn.

Crimson Hunter formation gets preferred enemy flyers/FMCs and an automatic 4+ cover save, which they can re-roll if they choose to jink.

DA formation gives them all BS 5, re-roll all fear stuff, and lets them shoot an extra shuriken once per game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New swooping hawk rules:

Intercept: at the end of the movement phase, a model with this rule can make an Attack against an enemy Flyer or FMC it has moved over during that turn. The attack hits on a 4+ and is resolved at S4 AP4 with the Haywire USR. Flyers are hit on their side armor.

Herald of victory (Exarch only). Units with a model with this rule don't scatter when DSing.

So how much eating crow will have to be done now that the sky has actually been found to be lowering rapidly to the ground?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
So how much eating crow will have to be done now that the sky has actually been found to be lowering rapidly to the ground?

Considering the pics confirm everything we heard already? Not much.

So at this point the game basically becomes "Play another army if you want, but if you wanna win use the Eldar dex and just substitute your faction of choice."

I love Eldar and all, but this dex does kinda break the game.

Here's another gem:

Eldritch Storm has two cast modes: WC 3 or WC 4.

WC 3 24''- str 3 ap 3 large blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning

WC 4 24''- str 3 ap 3 Apocalyptic blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning.

There's also a 15 pt relic that makes a spell a turn 1 less WC to cast. Also farseers can re-roll a psychic test each turn.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Here's another gem:

Eldritch Storm has two cast modes: WC 3 or WC 4.

WC 3 24''- str 3 ap 3 large blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning

WC 4 24''- str 3 ap 3 Apocalyptic blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning.

There's also a 15 pt relic that makes a spell a turn 1 less WC to cast. Also farseers can re-roll a psychic test each turn.

Yeah that is brutal. Apocalyptic AP 3 blast. Will just erase entire marine squads. Luckily it's short range. Jetbike Seer ahoy!

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
There's a guy posting photo's on 4chan right now, actually.

Linky bits?

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/39484213/sup-guys

All leaks correct. Wraithguard get Strength D. Unbelievable.

My last quiet hope, that GW has fed misinformation to devalue internet rumours is dead, along with 40K.

This goes beyond the usual broken codex syndrome, and is just a blatant vehicle to prostitute the game in hope of kwik sales of certain items, business as usual, but now notched up to the maximum. I don't have a wraithknight and wont be buying one, it's just broken timmybait.
I will not be adding scatter lasers to all my 20 jetbikes, in fact I might not take them at all out of embarrassment.
I wont buy the codex either, I refuse to spend money on it, and will generate my lists via other means.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Here's another gem:

Already discussed.

Good luck getting any kind of reliability out of Warp Charge 3 witchfire power. Yes, that negative sentiment includes possible relics and wargear.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Here's another gem:

Already discussed.

Good luck getting any kind of reliability out of Warp Charge 3 witchfire power. Yes, that negative sentiment includes possible relics and wargear.

Considering you can cast it at WC2 on a 3+ and reroll one failed power?

 pretre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Here's another gem:

Already discussed.

Good luck getting any kind of reliability out of Warp Charge 3 witchfire power. Yes, that negative sentiment includes possible relics and wargear.

Considering you can cast it at WC2 on a 3+ and reroll one failed power?

How much are the psychic relics?

15 points.

Also have to roll the power up too.

I don't think the Eldar book is the be all, end all of the competitive scene. I think you're still going to see Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Centurion based marines, Pod based imperium armies, heldrake based armies will be making a comeback.

There are a ton of armies that will still compete just fine. To me it's actually a slight backward step on power from the current book but at worst it's a side step.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Also have to roll the power up too.

I don't think the Eldar book is the be all, end all of the competitive scene. I think you're still going to see Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Centurion based marines, Pod based imperium armies, heldrake based armies will be making a comeback.

There are a ton of armies that will still compete just fine. To me it's actually a slight backward step on power from the current book but at worst it's a side step.

Its not like the other powers suck, they're all really good so many are there just to kill a specific model. Oh god fortune on 1 WC...

EDIT: Hmmm been a while since this happened.

Yea honestly I think D being more common in the game might shake things up in a positive direction. And I personally love wacky rules.

My only fear is that only some armies will get the good stuff.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
There's a guy posting photo's on 4chan right now, actually.

Linky bits?

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/39484213/sup-guys

All leaks correct. Wraithguard get Strength D. Unbelievable.

I'd be interested to see the points costs. I don't know what they are now, but has there been anything said about points increase/decrease on units?

I'd be mildly ok with most things if they got more expensive.

Wraithguard receive no points increase. You pay 32 pts for a Strength D gun. Wraithknight went up to 290, as has been discussed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:

Warp spiders can elect to blink 2d6 when targeted with a weapon. The shooter cannot select a new target. If the spiders do this, they can't warp jump next turn.

Crimson Hunter formation gets preferred enemy flyers/FMCs and an automatic 4+ cover save, which they can re-roll if they choose to jink.

DA formation gives them all BS 5, re-roll all fear stuff, and lets them shoot an extra shuriken once per game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New swooping hawk rules:

Intercept: at the end of the movement phase, a model with this rule can make an Attack against an enemy Flyer or FMC it has moved over during that turn. The attack hits on a 4+ and is resolved at S4 AP4 with the Haywire USR. Flyers are hit on their side armor.

Herald of victory (Exarch only). Units with a model with this rule don't scatter when DSing.

Iirc aren't the D-scythes now just an option, with no cost as well?

Pretty sure D-scythe Wraithguard are the deathknell for Fire Dragons.170ish points for 5 as opposed to 110 points but a flamer template that does at least D3 hull points or wounds on a 3+ at AP2 against any target you care to name is probably far better than 2 fusion gun shots. If only for the fact it's a more durable T6 platform and the templates. The glorious templates. Want to assault D-scythe Wraithguard? Unless they have Slow and Purposeful that's going to be harsh. D3 automatic D hits on the assaulter? LULZ.

Swooping Hawks seem like they'll be the death of Flyers if fielded in a big blob for sheer haywire spam. FMC, not so much.

 pretre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Here's another gem:

Already discussed.

Good luck getting any kind of reliability out of Warp Charge 3 witchfire power. Yes, that negative sentiment includes possible relics and wargear.

Considering you can cast it at WC2 on a 3+ and reroll one failed power?

Yes, even considering those things, hence why my post said to include them.

If you think casting specific powers at 2 warp charges is at all consistent, you should consider playing the lottery for a living.

Also, even assuming you still don't understand how probability actually functions and think this is a guaranteed power in every turn of every game, look at the points cost for what you're describing. Even if it was consistent, it wouldn't be worth it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Here's another gem:

Already discussed.

Good luck getting any kind of reliability out of Warp Charge 3 witchfire power. Yes, that negative sentiment includes possible relics and wargear.

Considering you can cast it at WC2 on a 3+ and reroll one failed power?

Yes, even considering those things, hence why my post said to include them.

If you think casting specific powers at 2 warp charges is at all consistent, you should consider playing the lottery for a living.

The chances are a lot better of rolling 2 3+'s than winning the lottery.

Fire Dragons may still have a place is run as an Aspect Host. Don't they gain 1+ BS? BS 5 Fire Dragons may have some uses over Wraithguard.

 pretre wrote:

The chances are a lot better of rolling 2 3+'s than winning the lottery.

Roll a 6 to get a power.

Roll 1d6+levels to get warp charges.

Roll 2 3+s on that power.

Roll 2d6+scatter die and actually hit with the power.

Opponent fails to deny power.

Now somehow do that every turn of every game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Fire Dragons may still have a place is run as an Aspect Host. Don't they gain 1+ BS? BS 5 Fire Dragons may have some uses over Wraithguard.

Fire Dragons are objectively better than Wraith guard if you are shooting anything that has T4, 1 Wound, or is a regular vehicle. Against those targets, Fire Dragons are the same offense at 2/3 the cost.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 pretre wrote:

The chances are a lot better of rolling 2 3+'s than winning the lottery.

Roll a 6 to get a power.

Roll 1d6+levels to get warp charges.

Roll 2 3+s on that power.

Roll 2d6+scatter die and actually hit with the power.

Opponent fails to deny power.

Now somehow do that every turn of every game.

You didn't say 'hitting and killing' you said 'casting'. Adding other steps just obfuscates what I was saying.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Fire Dragons may still have a place is run as an Aspect Host. Don't they gain 1+ BS? BS 5 Fire Dragons may have some uses over Wraithguard.

Yes. Firedragons get BS5, +1 on the Vehicle Damage table and, if you want, no-scatter Deepstrike in a Falcon.

A reasonable option for all those old-school tournaments banning D-Weapon Wraithguard with allied WWPs.

 pretre wrote:

You didn't say 'hitting and killing' you said 'casting'. Adding other steps just obfuscates what I was saying.

I said "If you think casting specific powers at 2 warp charges is at all consistent, you should consider playing the lottery for a living. "

Please re-read that. It is not what you think I wrote.

Do you also think every Centurion in existence is constantly Invisible, like 90% of Dakka thinks? Or that Wave Serpents were both immune to penetrating hits and had ignore cover shots simultaneously?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 pretre wrote:

You didn't say 'hitting and killing' you said 'casting'. Adding other steps just obfuscates what I was saying.

I said "If you think casting specific powers at 2 warp charges is at all consistent, you should consider playing the lottery for a living. "

Please re-read that. It is not what you think I wrote.

Do you also think every Centurion in existence is constantly Invisible, like 90% of Dakka thinks? Or that Wave Serpents were both immune to penetrating hits and had ignore cover shots simultaneously?

Mr.Church13 wrote:
So at this point the game basically becomes "Play another army if you want, but if you wanna win use the Eldar dex and just substitute your faction of choice."

I love Eldar and all, but this dex does kinda break the game.

I disagree. Necrons can hold their own, even against the most cheesy list Eldar can cough up. And even then, in a competitive setting, I doubt Eldar will as "auto-win" as they were.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Fire Dragons may still have a place is run as an Aspect Host. Don't they gain 1+ BS? BS 5 Fire Dragons may have some uses over Wraithguard.

Fire Dragons are objectively better than Wraith guard if you are shooting anything that has T4, 1 Wound, or is a regular vehicle. Against those targets, Fire Dragons are the same offense at 2/3 the cost.

I dunno. Factor in the following.

D-scythes don't have to roll to hit. Even in the formation you still have to roll to hit.
Templates can and will hit multiple things. Not only can you blanket the unit but you can cover their transport too.
D-scythes and Fusion guns are relatively short ranged. That means you will probably be assaulted by whatever you nuked the vehicle of or decided to shoot if you didn't kill it. Let me tell you what... I'm far more terrified of 5D3 auto hits that do at least D3 wounds a piece on a 3+ than 5 shots that hit on a 6.

More to add...

You get cover saves against fusion guns. Not against D-scythes.
D-scythes do D3 wounds/hull points on a 3+. A fusion gun will do 1 hull point if it doesn't destroy the vehicle.
D-scythes are on a tougher platform. Toughness 6 with a 3+ save. Do not underestimate that. As someone who plays a lot of Nurgle CSM I fully appreciate how potent T5 is as a defense alone. You can weather so much with your toughness. T6 is even better.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Also have to roll the power up too.

I don't think the Eldar book is the be all, end all of the competitive scene. I think you're still going to see Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Centurion based marines, Pod based imperium armies, heldrake based armies will be making a comeback.

There are a ton of armies that will still compete just fine. To me it's actually a slight backward step on power from the current book but at worst it's a side step.

Every unit in the Codex has been given a boost and /or a points drop - how in the name of the Seven hells can that possibily be a power reduction?

Which sepecifc area of the codex do you think suddnely makes them weaker - the only possible things is that Cheese Serpents are now just very good rather than broken.....

Well, looks like Eldar are losing quite a bit of their psychic dice in general. Warlocks are Brotherhood of Psykers: ML1 for 1-3 Warlorkcs, ML2 for 4-6, and ML3 for 7+. They lose powers if models die and they drop to the lower ML.

I think in general, then, the Eldar Psychic phase might be toned down? Yes they manifest on a 3+, but it'll be hard to protect your Farseers and Warlocks in general, because they won't be rolling up a billion spells to pick and choose protection powers as easily. Eldar Seer Council lists are going to have a harder time. It is the case, though, that Farseers are given out like candy in the new Eldar Warhost detatchment.