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rollawaythestone wrote:
Well, looks like Eldar are losing quite a bit of their psychic dice in general. Warlocks are Brotherhood of Psykers: ML1 for 1-3 Warlorkcs, ML2 for 4-6, and ML3 for 7+. They lose powers if models die and they drop to the lower ML.

I think in general, then, the Eldar Psychic phase might be toned down? Yes they manifest on a 3+, but it'll be hard to protect your Farseers and Warlocks in general, because they won't be rolling up a billion spells to pick and choose protection powers as easily. Eldar Seer Council lists are going to have a harder time. It is the case, though, that Farseers are given out like candy in the new Eldar Warhost detatchment.

Also keep in mind, if they choose to lower the WC of a power, they lose their invuln temporarily. So, it's even easier to gimp them. Shouldn't be that hard.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Also have to roll the power up too.

I don't think the Eldar book is the be all, end all of the competitive scene. I think you're still going to see Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Centurion based marines, Pod based imperium armies, heldrake based armies will be making a comeback.

There are a ton of armies that will still compete just fine. To me it's actually a slight backward step on power from the current book but at worst it's a side step.

Every unit in the Codex has been given a boost and /or a points drop - how in the name of the Seven hells can that possibily be a power reduction?

Which sepecifc area of the codex do you think suddnely makes them weaker - the only possible things is that Cheese Serpents are now just very good rather than broken.....

Considering we saw only 3 units in most GT level lists (Serpents, WK's, and either hawks or spiders) merely buffing up units to a playable level doesn't mean the power level of the codex went up. It means that there are more avenues to solid lists. That said the things that made eldar a super tough opponent (largely wave serpents and summoning seers) are gone. In exchange for the hammer blow of not being able to make more troops eldar got scatter laser bikers. Pretty much a wash to me. Serpents no longer ignore cover and shoot from across the table every turn. This is so huge it's almost unreal.

The new codex makes me way, way happier than the current codex. I say that as an Army of the Imperium (basically all kinds of imperial stuff all rolled in together depending on the event) and as a Nid/Daemon player. A larger issue that makes the eldar book stronger is the insistance on 2-detachments but that's a subject for a different day.

It will still be damn hard. But, it's nice that they were actually nerfed a little (by my reading).

I dunno, Eldar is 4, a Farseer is another 3, then Spiritseer is 2. The latter two cost under a 100 even w/ the jetbike upgrade. It is still a strong basis to work with, though it did get weaker.

Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Farseer costs 100 points. Warlocks cost 50 with jetbike. Spiritseer is 70. Was confirmed in the /tg thread.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Farseer costs 100 points. Warlocks cost 50 with jetbike. Spiritseer is 70. Was confirmed in the /tg thread.

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Uhhh, how do I have two of the same post? My apologies, not sure how this happened.

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Farseer costs 100 points. Warlocks cost 50 with jetbike. Spiritseer is 70. Was confirmed in the /tg thread.

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

I'm glad there is someone out there who is delusionally confident about facing the new Eldar.

Just an FYI, both Farseers in the Seer Counsel have to be in the unit of Warlocks and cannot leave it. Last I checked, a unit of Warlocks, even on bikes, is not THAT great and is a relatively easy target. I don't recall too many seer counsels appearing in any of the top Eldar lists recently. The seer counsel is the only way to harness on a 3+ and only the model with the item that reduces warp charges can reduce the warp charges of a power so if you roll nothing but wc1 powers on the guy, have fun with that...

Not saying Seer Counsel won't be good, I see a lot of potential if Fortune is rolled, along with potentially +1 invul save from Santic and Misfortune from Divination. However, far from reliable as powers rolled are random =(.

Wraithguard confirmed. 160 pts. 32 pts a model. +10 points to upgrade to Dscythes. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429644263636.jpg


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mortetvie wrote:
Just an FYI, both Farseers in the Seer Counsel have to be in the unit of Warlocks and cannot leave it. Last I checked, a unit of Warlocks, even on bikes, is not THAT great and is a relatively easy target. I don't recall too many seer counsels appearing in any of the top Eldar lists recently.

Not saying Seer Counsel won't be good, I see a lot of potential if Fortune is rolled, along with potentially +1 invul save from Santic and Misfortune from Divination. However, far from reliable as powers rolled are random =(.

Yeah, I think the Seer Council and the Eldar psychic phase got toned down to more reasonable levels thankfully. Time will tell? Or an Eldar player can come on here and shut me up cause I don't know what i'm talking about!

rollawaythestone wrote:
Wraithguard confirmed. 160 pts. 32 pts a model. +10 points to upgrade to Dscythes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mortetvie wrote:
Just an FYI, both Farseers in the Seer Counsel have to be in the unit of Warlocks and cannot leave it. Last I checked, a unit of Warlocks, even on bikes, is not THAT great and is a relatively easy target. I don't recall too many seer counsels appearing in any of the top Eldar lists recently.

Not saying Seer Counsel won't be good, I see a lot of potential if Fortune is rolled, along with potentially +1 invul save from Santic and Misfortune from Divination. However, far from reliable as powers rolled are random =(.

Yeah, I think the Seer Council and the Eldar psychic phase got toned down to more reasonable levels thankfully. Time will tell? Or an Eldar player can come on here and shut me up cause I don't know what i'm talking about!

That +10 points is nice. D-scythes are freakin' ridiculous, but at least you're paying for them.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Farseer costs 100 points. Warlocks cost 50 with jetbike. Spiritseer is 70. Was confirmed in the /tg thread.

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

I'm glad there is someone out there who is delusionally confident about facing the new Eldar.

I'm just saying, Scatriders are 27 points a model for T4 and a 3+ save. LD8. Wooo, impressive, right? My Tomb Blades, if cheesed out, are 24 points per model, and more durable. Yet, people aren't complaining about them, now are they? They will die to most firepower, guaranteed.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Also have to roll the power up too.

I don't think the Eldar book is the be all, end all of the competitive scene. I think you're still going to see Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Centurion based marines, Pod based imperium armies, heldrake based armies will be making a comeback.

There are a ton of armies that will still compete just fine. To me it's actually a slight backward step on power from the current book but at worst it's a side step.

Every unit in the Codex has been given a boost and /or a points drop - how in the name of the Seven hells can that possibily be a power reduction?

Which sepecifc area of the codex do you think suddnely makes them weaker - the only possible things is that Cheese Serpents are now just very good rather than broken.....

Considering we saw only 3 units in most GT level lists (Serpents, WK's, and either hawks or spiders) merely buffing up units to a playable level doesn't mean the power level of the codex went up. It means that there are more avenues to solid lists. That said the things that made eldar a super tough opponent (largely wave serpents and summoning seers) are gone. In exchange for the hammer blow of not being able to make more troops eldar got scatter laser bikers. Pretty much a wash to me. Serpents no longer ignore cover and shoot from across the table every turn. This is so huge it's almost unreal.

The new codex makes me way, way happier than the current codex. I say that as an Army of the Imperium (basically all kinds of imperial stuff all rolled in together depending on the event) and as a Nid/Daemon player. A larger issue that makes the eldar book stronger is the insistance on 2-detachments but that's a subject for a different day.

The Wraith Knight is super cheap and super deadily and much harder to kill as a GC
The Serpent Shield is now 2D6 hits and still ignores cover IIRC?

 Mr Morden wrote:

The Wraith Knight is super cheap and super deadily and much harder to kill as a GC
The Serpent Shield is now 2D6 hits and still ignores cover IIRC?

Heres the new waveserpent. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429644500589.jpg

Serpent shield has strikedown now. 2d6 Str 6 AP-, Ignores Cover, One use Only, Strikedown.

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Welp, it's confirmed. Scatterbikes for the win. http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1429643714870.jpg



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Farseer costs 100 points. Warlocks cost 50 with jetbike. Spiritseer is 70. Was confirmed in the /tg thread.

Yes, let Eldar players waste their points on bringing Scat riders galore.

I'm glad there is someone out there who is delusionally confident about facing the new Eldar.

I'm just saying, Scatriders are 27 points a model for T4 and a 3+ save. LD8. Wooo, impressive, right? My Tomb Blades, if cheesed out, are 24 points per model, and more durable. Yet, people aren't complaining about them, now are they? They will die to most firepower, guaranteed.

Are they more durable, though? The durability of the bikes comes from their manoeuvrability and long range, not their toughness and armour. Being able to dictate range and hence avoid return fire completely makes you way more durable than something that has to tank the shot.

Case in point, Crisis Suits. Your basic Space Marine unit has more wounds at an equal toughness and armour save to an equal points value of Crisis Suits (once you include weapon systems). Where the Crisis suits excel, however, is the ability to outrange those marines (except for heavy weapons) and use their thrust moves in the assault phase to get out of range and, ideally, LOS which makes it impossible for the Marines to retaliate in any meaningful way.

Nice to see all aspect warriors viable.

Now if only they had kits in plastic...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Also have to roll the power up too.

I don't think the Eldar book is the be all, end all of the competitive scene. I think you're still going to see Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Centurion based marines, Pod based imperium armies, heldrake based armies will be making a comeback.

There are a ton of armies that will still compete just fine. To me it's actually a slight backward step on power from the current book but at worst it's a side step.

Every unit in the Codex has been given a boost and /or a points drop - how in the name of the Seven hells can that possibily be a power reduction?

Which sepecifc area of the codex do you think suddnely makes them weaker - the only possible things is that Cheese Serpents are now just very good rather than broken.....

Considering we saw only 3 units in most GT level lists (Serpents, WK's, and either hawks or spiders) merely buffing up units to a playable level doesn't mean the power level of the codex went up. It means that there are more avenues to solid lists. That said the things that made eldar a super tough opponent (largely wave serpents and summoning seers) are gone. In exchange for the hammer blow of not being able to make more troops eldar got scatter laser bikers. Pretty much a wash to me. Serpents no longer ignore cover and shoot from across the table every turn. This is so huge it's almost unreal.

The new codex makes me way, way happier than the current codex. I say that as an Army of the Imperium (basically all kinds of imperial stuff all rolled in together depending on the event) and as a Nid/Daemon player. A larger issue that makes the eldar book stronger is the insistance on 2-detachments but that's a subject for a different day.

The Wraith Knight is super cheap and super deadily and much harder to kill as a GC
The Serpent Shield is now 2D6 hits and still ignores cover IIRC?

It is, but it's once per game and then the shield is GONE. No reducing pens to glances or firing that thing again. It's one of the thinks they got right.

With regard to Warlocks and Warp Charges; units of Guardians (Storm or Defender) have the option to take a Warlock, as do the Windriders, don't they? Each is ML1, and provides 1 WC, right?

Yeah, if there wasn't such blatantly powerful options in this book, it would be a strong well-crafted book with lots of fluffy and viable options. I think they really nailed all the aspect warriors and Pheonix Lords. It's also nice to see the slight nerf to the wave serpent and warlocks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DCannon4Life wrote:
With regard to Warlocks and Warp Charges; units of Guardians (Storm or Defender) have the option to take a Warlock, as do the Windriders, don't they? Each is ML1, and provides 1 WC, right?

Yeah, pretty sure. Guardians and Storm Guardings and Windriders can take a "Warlock Seargent" ML1.

 Mr Morden wrote:

The Wraith Knight is super cheap and super deadily and much harder to kill as a GC
The Serpent Shield is now 2D6 hits and still ignores cover IIRC?

Again, I'm not downright defending the Wraithknight, as it is cheap, but look at comparisons as far as other LOW units goes. Lets use the Obelisk, as an example. 300 points, AV14 6HP, 6+ IWND, has 4 S7 Heavy 5 Tesla guns, screws up Flyers/skimmers/jetbikes, and has a nice formation that has some tactical benefits to it. It's immune to anything S7 or lower, and is glanced on 6s by S8.

Yes, the Wraithknight is 295. That's before shoulder gun options, which why would you not take? So, easily close to 315 or so points. Can be hurt by Poison and Snipers (barely, mind you), can be hurt by heavy boltors, or anything S5+ for that matter. And anything that killed it before (Lascannons, Instant Death, Grav weapons, ext) will still kill it more or less the same, bar FNP. And it it's using the Heavy Wraithcannons, the variant that everyone is scared of, it has no Invuln. And if it takes the Invuln, no ranged Strength D to worry about. And even if it takes the Strength D, it has 2 shots, hitting on 3s, damaging something on a 2-5 only slightly moreso than it did, and on a 6, it kills something. If it's a vehicle or MC, ouch. If not, woo, one model is gone.

To reiterate, I'm not defending it, since it has easy spammability, but it's not the end all, be all. If you spam 3, that's almost 1000 points of your list, which die to more things than an Obelisk. And if you bring 1, you can almost ignore it until you've killed all his other squish units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Are they more durable, though? The durability of the bikes comes from their manoeuvrability, not their toughness and armour. Being able to dictate range and hence avoid return fire completely makes you way more durable than something that has to tank the shot.

This is true. But in my most recent game against Eldar, he tried running away and such. His board edge was right there, so no running away that far. Mobile armies still have an advantage, and almost every army has some mobile option to deal with them, which are typically seen in most lists anyway.

Tomb Blades are excellent, but Jetbikes are better.

Tomb Blades only have a 4+ Armor Save, and have worse fire power. They do have RP, though, and the option to Ignore Cover. Jetbikes are also faster and have longer range potentially. They are also Fast Attack not Troops!

 krodarklorr wrote:


Again, I'm not downright defending the Wraithknight, as it is cheap, but look at comparisons as far as other LOW units goes. Lets use the Obelisk, as an example. 300 points, AV14 6HP, 6+ IWND, has 4 S7 Heavy 5 Tesla guns, screws up Flyers/skimmers/jetbikes, and has a nice formation that has some tactical benefits to it. It's immune to anything S7 or lower, and is glanced on 6s by S8.

Yes, the Wraithknight is 295. That's before shoulder gun options, which why would you not take? So, easily close to 315 or so points. Can be hurt by Poison and Snipers (barely, mind you), can be hurt by heavy boltors, or anything S5+ for that matter. And anything that killed it before (Lascannons, Instant Death, Grav weapons, ext) will still kill it more or less the same, bar FNP. And it it's using the Heavy Wraithcannons, the variant that everyone is scared of, it has no Invuln. And if it takes the Invuln, no ranged Strength D to worry about. And even if it takes the Strength D, it has 2 shots, hitting on 3s, damaging something on a 2-5 only slightly moreso than it did, and on a 6, it kills something. If it's a vehicle or MC, ouch. If not, woo, one model is gone.

To reiterate, I'm not defending it, since it has easy spammability, but it's not the end all, be all. If you spam 3, that's almost 1000 points of your list, which die to more things than an Obelisk. And if you bring 1, you can almost ignore it until you've killed all his other squish units.

I agree. There is a difference between "undercosted" and "overpowered". The WK is clearly "undercosted", but it would only be "overpowered" if it have BOTH the ranged D and the invul, but it does not.

Imp knights could be considered overpowered if they were cheaper, but thankfully they are not. I have heard talk that some tournaments will be banning LOW, but not Imp Knights. I will not be playing in those tournies. Imp Knights and WKs should be in the same category: Ban/restrict both, or allow both.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Tomb Blades are excellent, but Jetbikes are better.

Tomb Blades only have a 4+ Armor Save, and have worse fire power. They do have RP, though, and the option to Ignore Cover. Jetbikes are also faster and have longer range potentially. They are also Fast Attack not Troops!

I mean, if you're playing with 4+ save bikes, something's wrong. 2 ppm gets you a 3+. Then, 2 points (for any model in the unit) can take a 24" S6 AP5 blast, and for 2 points, you can make it ignore cover. 24 ppm. T5, 4+++, LD10, access to MTC. Yet, this is perfectly balanced, right?

Wait. Wraithknight is hands down better than the Knight and it's cheaper. Almost one hundred points cheaper. But the Wraithknight isn't overpowered... and the Knight would be, if it was cheaper.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Fire Dragons may still have a place is run as an Aspect Host. Don't they gain 1+ BS? BS 5 Fire Dragons may have some uses over Wraithguard.

Fire Dragons are objectively better than Wraith guard if you are shooting anything that has T4, 1 Wound, or is a regular vehicle. Against those targets, Fire Dragons are the same offense at 2/3 the cost.

I dunno. Factor in the following.

I meant regular wraithcannoned Wraithguard, as illustrated by the 2/3 cost comment.

D-Scythe Wraithguard are double a Fire Dragon's cost.

 Galef wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


Again, I'm not downright defending the Wraithknight, as it is cheap, but look at comparisons as far as other LOW units goes. Lets use the Obelisk, as an example. 300 points, AV14 6HP, 6+ IWND, has 4 S7 Heavy 5 Tesla guns, screws up Flyers/skimmers/jetbikes, and has a nice formation that has some tactical benefits to it. It's immune to anything S7 or lower, and is glanced on 6s by S8.

Yes, the Wraithknight is 295. That's before shoulder gun options, which why would you not take? So, easily close to 315 or so points. Can be hurt by Poison and Snipers (barely, mind you), can be hurt by heavy boltors, or anything S5+ for that matter. And anything that killed it before (Lascannons, Instant Death, Grav weapons, ext) will still kill it more or less the same, bar FNP. And it it's using the Heavy Wraithcannons, the variant that everyone is scared of, it has no Invuln. And if it takes the Invuln, no ranged Strength D to worry about. And even if it takes the Strength D, it has 2 shots, hitting on 3s, damaging something on a 2-5 only slightly moreso than it did, and on a 6, it kills something. If it's a vehicle or MC, ouch. If not, woo, one model is gone.

To reiterate, I'm not defending it, since it has easy spammability, but it's not the end all, be all. If you spam 3, that's almost 1000 points of your list, which die to more things than an Obelisk. And if you bring 1, you can almost ignore it until you've killed all his other squish units.

I agree. There is a difference between "undercosted" and "overpowered". The WK is clearly "undercosted", but it would only be "overpowered" if it have BOTH the ranged D and the invul, but it does not.

Imp knights could be considered overpowered if they were cheaper, but thankfully they are not. I have heard talk that some tournaments will be banning LOW, but not Imp Knights. I will not be playing in those tournies. Imp Knights and WKs should be in the same category: Ban/restrict both, or allow both.

I completely agree sir. I personally hate Imp nights more than even the new Wraithknight, as they're vehicles (thus harder to kill. Yes, even to a Necron player), and even less things can hurt them in CC, and it has Strength D in CC on all varients, the formation with them is ridiculous, and they're not LOW, so feel free to ally in as many as you want without a CAD tax.

However, apparently a new IK codex is on the horizon, so maybe they'll keep them as an army, but make them take up a LOW slot in other armies. That would quell a lot of my hate towards them immediately.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Tomb Blades are excellent, but Jetbikes are better.

Tomb Blades only have a 4+ Armor Save, and have worse fire power. They do have RP, though, and the option to Ignore Cover. Jetbikes are also faster and have longer range potentially. They are also Fast Attack not Troops!

Assuming both are using their "decurion style detachments"

For 5pts less (22pts) a Necron Tomblade has a 24" TL-St5 AP4, T5, 3+ Save, Ignore Cover, 4+ RP, possibly re-roll 1's

vs.

a 27pt T4, 3+ Save, 4 36" St6 AP6, and the Eldar Jetbike Rule

They seem on par to me. Especially when you consider an almost 20% price difference.

 Hulksmash wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Tomb Blades are excellent, but Jetbikes are better.

Tomb Blades only have a 4+ Armor Save, and have worse fire power. They do have RP, though, and the option to Ignore Cover. Jetbikes are also faster and have longer range potentially. They are also Fast Attack not Troops!

Assuming both are using their "decurion style detachments"

For 5pts less (22pts) a Necron Tomblade has a 24" TL-St5 AP4, T5, 3+ Save, Ignore Cover, 4+ RP, possibly re-roll 1's

vs.

a 27pt T4, 3+ Save, 4 36" St6 AP6, and the Eldar Jetbike Rule

They seem on par to me. Especially when you consider an almost 20% price difference.

Did you take into account the fact that Scatriders can't hurt AV13 or higher, much less ignore cover. Tomb Blades glance anything, and wound anything. And have Move Through Cover, which without it, Eldar bikes could lose a few guys if playing to cover.

 Hulksmash wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Tomb Blades are excellent, but Jetbikes are better.

Tomb Blades only have a 4+ Armor Save, and have worse fire power. They do have RP, though, and the option to Ignore Cover. Jetbikes are also faster and have longer range potentially. They are also Fast Attack not Troops!

Assuming both are using their "decurion style detachments"

For 5pts less (22pts) a Necron Tomblade has a 24" TL-St5 AP4, T5, 3+ Save, Ignore Cover, 4+ RP, possibly re-roll 1's

vs.

a 27pt T4, 3+ Save, 4 36" St6 AP6, and the Eldar Jetbike Rule

They seem on par to me. Especially when you consider an almost 20% price difference.

If you're using the Mega-Formation detachments (we really need to settle on a name for those) then you are right. But in a CAD, windriders are super boss. ObSec, ultra-fast, heavy-weapon toting bikes is ridiculous.

In a cad they are superior. But Eldar are going to be better in the special detachment I think unless you are going strictly biker crazy. The bonuses for the formations are just to good.

 Hulksmash wrote:
In a cad they are superior. But Eldar are going to be better in the special detachment I think unless you are going strictly biker crazy. The bonuses for the formations are just to good.

That's where the balance (lolz, did I just say that? ) comes into play. Necrons could spam the gak out of Wraiths if they wanted to, but the formations is just too nice. And also more restricting.