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What's bad about a pair of Turn 2 Raptor Squads dropping two Meltaguns each next to an enemy tank and then being killed for more Blood Points or Assaulting something nearby? Risky, but so what? And Warp Talons charging forward, killing if they get into combat, getting another Blood Point if they don't. The Heldrake is guaranteed to give you one or two Blood Points unless the enemy is set up knock out everything from the skies. So, all else fails, turn after they all are in you're getting Feel no Pain or some Daemons on the table just by that Formation alone by their killing or their deaths.

Yeah the Warp Talon one is awful, I dunno why you'd play Warp Talons ever unless it's a themed list.

 luke1705 wrote:
...as an assaulty army with no psyker support is a pretty rare thing nowadays. Wraithwing is the only thing I can think of that can pull it off reliably...

Orks.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
What's bad about a pair of Turn 2 Raptor Squads dropping two Meltaguns each next to an enemy tank and then being killed for more Blood Points or Assaulting something nearby? Risky, but so what? And Warp Talons charging forward, killing if they get into combat, getting another Blood Point if they don't. The Heldrake is guaranteed to give you one or two Blood Points unless the enemy is set up knock out everything from the skies. So, all else fails, turn after they all are in you're getting Feel no Pain or some Daemons on the table just by that Formation alone by their killing or their deaths.

A minimum of 580-something points in order to get 3 chaff units and one heldrake, that you can use in order to summon a 100-point unit? In an army that lacks reserves manipulation, scatter reduction for said Meltas, and multimeltas of any sort? To make a null army work, you need almost all your army to work null-wise, with proper fire support on-hand. Daemonkin...doesn't have this.

So can you use the formations outside of the Blood Host? Not sure how these "formations of formations" things work. Either way it seems like a fun, if not competitive codex. Might even make me but models I had no interest in using before, i.e. possessed, more than one "bad roll on chaos rewards" spawn.

I came close to buying possessed just now. I feel feint.

I've always loved the models tho. But the rules... Aiee.

Random stupid thought on warp talons. Could the models be used as possessed without the jump packs , and could the jump packs pass for heresy era? I'm guessing no...

Yes they could.

Here's a question about this whole nonsense with the Detachments and what not. Cant you just take a CAD unit of Crimson Slaughter Possessed and have them count towards your Possessed for this codex? At least throwing them in a LR makes them "Ok".

This whole detachment thing is kinda getting out of hand in my book. I dont know why they didn't just put a cap on Allies and scrap the whole Detachement notion all together.

I don't think you can mix in CS possessed alas.

Nothing stooping you running a regular list but the bonus of the big detachment with the possessed is very good. No objective secured mind.

You can't have one unit fill a separate role in two different FOC's/Formations. You could, however, take a land raider from the CS detachment, and then put your Formation Possessed in it.

 koooaei wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
...as an assaulty army with no psyker support is a pretty rare thing nowadays. Wraithwing is the only thing I can think of that can pull it off reliably...

Orks.

Dark Eldar

Dark Eldar have assault elements. I wouldn't really call them an assault-themed army like orks and Khorne Chaos is, though.

Blood host + master of the horde renegades...
Build up tgose blood points. Hello multiple free bloodthirsters and Deamon Princes. Every turn you get 1 blood point auto, 1 bloodpoint for every unit of yours or your opponents destroyed. At 8 Bloodpoints get a free BT AND DP. Easy to build it up to 8 quickly with master of the horde allies (of whom you get a third back to boot!). With lots of units (and plenty of demagogues) you should have enough models with high ld to avoid the worst of spawn rolls!

Do we know if allied/separate detachments add to the tally as they die?

I dunno, but we do know that enemy units add to the tally, so I imagine units from different FoC's/Detachments will as well.

How bad are Posessed, really?

They at least get a lot of attacks, fleet and an invuln, so they're not useless before factoring cost in.

Nasty tax obviously.

It seems like MSU and quick threats will be this books calling card. So a min sized unit has a decent chance to be ignored and could butcher little maelstrom cappers until dealt with giving you a few points (including their inevitable demise)

This army is legitimately a good army. You've got Termicide, Juggerlord now goes with Flesh Hounds, a mixed H. Support of Mauler Fiends and Soul Grinders , Deep Striking Troops or dirt cheap troops . Bike Squads. Hel Drakes.

Yeah it's pretty much Chaos Codex best units you'd want to take.

I mean seriously it's bad ass.

changemod wrote:
How bad are Posessed, really?

They at least get a lot of attacks, fleet and an invuln, so they're not useless before factoring cost in.

Nasty tax obviously.

They're going to die before they ever do anything, so pretty useless.


- - - - -

I'm struggling to see the appeal of this book, to be frank. "You can summon bloodthirsters!" Bloodthirsters have been the least competitive greater daemon for years and no one takes them. "Raptors with melta guns! Obliterators! Heldrakes!" All of these units have been in the CSM book for years, and the book has been one of the least competitive books for years.

etc. Someone help me see the light here.

So far the leaked pictures of the daemon rules have shown the daemons with daemonic instability so unless the CSM also get that rule I'm unsure of the supposed mixing and matching of units.
See some leaks here:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/03/wow-3-bloodthirsters-come-to-40k.html

Kisada II wrote:
So far the leaked pictures of the daemon rules have shown the daemons with daemonic instability so unless the CSM also get that rule I'm unsure of the supposed mixing and matching of units.
See some leaks here:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/03/wow-3-bloodthirsters-come-to-40k.html

Those aren't from the Daemonkin codex, those are the dataslates from White Drawf for Chaos Daemons.

The real appeal for me is the ability to run a juggerlord with hounds.

The army wide FNP bonus that is possible kinda works too.

I figure khorne possessed will make an OK filler for a land raider. which will have the legacy of 1st war of armageddon, and supported by a bunch of khorne daemons...

There's definitely fun to be had.. depends on how restrictive the different formations turn out to really be.

units of single spawn seem like a great unit, when you get a point for them being killed. Hopefully there's a way of maxing out for more FA slots.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

changemod wrote:
How bad are Posessed, really?

They at least get a lot of attacks, fleet and an invuln, so they're not useless before factoring cost in.

Nasty tax obviously.

They're going to die before they ever do anything, so pretty useless.


- - - - -

I'm struggling to see the appeal of this book, to be frank. "You can summon bloodthirsters!" Bloodthirsters have been the least competitive greater daemon for years and no one takes them. "Raptors with melta guns! Obliterators! Heldrakes!" All of these units have been in the CSM book for years, and the book has been one of the least competitive books for years.

etc. Someone help me see the light here.

You summon FREE bloodthirsters and deamon princes at the same time. If you could include a bloodthirster for 0pts, would it still be the worst greater deamon? (Btw the keeper of secrets wants to have a word with you for trying to take away his 'worst GD award').

just to note, the rumour didn't day free bloodthrister, it transforms from an existing character (through some mechanic? hopefully more reliable than summoning, without mishap or having to land in swooping mode)

And if you fail a ld check you get spawn instead.

most expendable characters don't have great leadership...

So its a good idea to use exceptionally cheap renegades if that's going to be allowed. If you have enough (especially with demagogues), there are going to be plenty around at ld9/10.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also unupgraded CSM champ is valued at 23pts. And that's ld9.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

changemod wrote:
How bad are Posessed, really?

They at least get a lot of attacks, fleet and an invuln, so they're not useless before factoring cost in.

Nasty tax obviously.

They're going to die before they ever do anything, so pretty useless.

Everyone says that about basically any suboptimal unit. You'll need to be more specific.

changemod wrote:
Everyone says that about basically any suboptimal unit. You'll need to be more specific.

Ain't that the truth. Meanwhile Lictors and Scouts end up winning tournaments.

Too many people only think about units in isolation and not how everything functions as part of an entire strategy.

Tournament. Both those forces were in the same one tournament (from what I've read) and it was not the norm.

The LVO was a wonderfully balanced tournament, which led to an unprecedented amount of parity amongst the top lists. Nick Rose (the scout list) won a different tournament with his list IIRC, but he did come in second at the LVO.

It is worth pointing out, however, that this is what happens when tournaments are balanced. Lists are able to emerge that look significantly different than the norm because they can accomplish the mission effectively and the imposed meta is minimal

Poly Ranger wrote:
You summon FREE bloodthirsters and deamon princes at the same time.

They aren't free. If you feed your opponent, say, 4 bloodletter squads to help build up the blood points for that BT, that's 400 points of dead units, not counting whatever malestrom/first blood points you might also be giving your opponent and the opportunity cost from not using those bloodletters to capture objectives and/or simply having better stuff in the troops slot.

Regular summoning is much closer to free because it doesn't involve suiciding your own units to get it, and those units can also capture objectives and do other things while summoning.

(Btw the keeper of secrets wants to have a word with you for trying to take away his 'worst GD award').

No it doesn't, as the KoS is a whopping 80 points less then a Bloodthirster, while also having access to psychic abilities for telepathy shenanigans.

changemod wrote:
Everyone says that about basically any suboptimal unit. You'll need to be more specific.

A unit who's sole reason for existing is to make it into combat, dying before it can make it into combat isn't enough? You've already come to the conclusion that they're overpriced as well. I'm not really sure what you're looking for.