Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

According to some list wherever the Heavy Bolter fires 1.0 caliber rounds.

However, this is extremely contradicted.

Both the fluff



and the art



and the models



show barrels that I am pretty sure are beyond 1.0 caliber.

Do heavy bolters fire some kind of double-sabot rounds or something?

You realize that Fluff and models dont always match and that GW model stuff is pretty fethin messed up in scale?

Otherwise do you accept monkey IG as realistic representations of cadian humans?

Weapons in 40k aren't really designed by designers...for example, with Bolt Pistols if you were to actually chamber a round, the bullet itself and a portion of the case would be sticking out the end of the barrel. Probably best to go by what the fluff says as the models and art are kind of ridiculous.

 Desubot wrote:
You realize that Fluff and models dont always match and that GW model stuff is pretty fethin messed up in scale?

Otherwise do you accept monkey IG as realistic representations of cadian humans?

Yeah but the fluff and the art and the models show that they are bigger than 1.0.

How do missile pods reload? Where are the magazines/clip/whatever for bolters stored?

This is why art is not used to measure functionality.

Some of the pictures you just posted have heavy bolter muzzles the size of modern day tank barrels. It's simply a case of artists guessing what it would look like and apparently having NO idea how big 1.0 caliber is.

The first picture you posted shows the muzzle being much too large for anything that would be able to fit in the feed they have attached to it.

EDIT: and I just saw the casing that is falling from the weapon in the first picture. Look at the size of the casing, there is absolutely no way anything that casing was holding could have been fired out of that weapon. It's preposterous

And let's take look at that quote. My head is ~6" across. Even if the barrel is 1" thick, that's a shell 4" across (101.6mm across). At that point, I think it's a tank cannon.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
You realize that Fluff and models dont always match and that GW model stuff is pretty fethin messed up in scale?

Otherwise do you accept monkey IG as realistic representations of cadian humans?

Yeah but the fluff and the art and the models show that they are bigger than 1.0.

That is artist impression to make it look more epic.

40k Art is also VERY varying. heck Marines can be anywhere from 7feet to 10-12 feet in some pictures.

You cannot take anything GW publishes in any sort of serious light. forgeworld maybe but thats about it.

1.0 caliber is HUGE

the buller would be 26mm diamter and the base of the shell about 41mm


remember "50 cal" = .5 caliber

the barrels looks abour 2x that so we could accont for that being a flash/noise reducer?

i thought that normal bolter shells are 1.o caliber and that heavy bolters are 1.5 or even 2.0

 darkapostle7 wrote:
i thought that normal bolter shells are 1.o caliber and that heavy bolters are 1.5 or even 2.0

IIRC normal shells are .75 or some other number. i think there was a lot of contradiction on that as well.

 darkapostle7 wrote:
i thought that normal bolter shells are 1.o caliber and that heavy bolters are 1.5 or even 2.0

Even so the muzzles on those weapons are still too large.

Barrels are often much thicker than the exit hole of the round. The size of the compensator/muzzle brake isn't always a good indicator.

AR-15s for example:
https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/xALGSCB.jpg

You can see the exit hole for the projectile is much smaller than the opening of the muzzle brake.

This is for many reasons, but probably so that the thicker barrel will be able to absorb more heat before it warps. Which is probably helpful when you're dispensing high caliber rocket rounds at tremendous volume like a heavy bolter would be.

I mean, if we're talking a 19-25mm round (.75-1), the muzzle brake for it could easily be 4-5 inches across for a battle-hardened weapon like what you'd issue to a Space Marine. Remember what a Space Marine is and what he does. Hitting somebody/something with your heavy bolter probably isn't out of the realm of possibility, lol.

As far as the size, shape of the round, the bolt is a two-stage, self-propelled munition. We really have no idea what it would be shaped like. It could be long and slender like a 25mm canon round, or it could be short and stumpy like the old 20x22R. I mean, it doesn't need a ton of propellant in the case because it's only using it to exit the barrel.

Either way, if there are discrepancies in the art, it's because it's art, and artists are no more experts at warfare than Black Library authors.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Either way, if there are discrepancies in the art, it's because it's art, and artists are no more experts at warfare than Black Library authors.

I agree with everything your saying and as I said I think it's mostly this.

But when you depict a heavy bolter with a muzzle break that is easily 8-12 inches in diameter then there is no possible way it is for anything but a tank cannon equivalent.

Rule of Cool really takes precedence when an artist is depicting war- and it's always been this way whether it be sci-fi novels, fan-fiction, movies, or any other medium.

Exactly. 1.0 caliber is one inch in diameter, meaning that obviously, the barrel opening is 1 inch in diameter.

Some of those freaking art shots have muzzles larger than the depictions of an autocannon. Even those models are drilled out to WAY larger than any of my models. That's pure comic-book scale on the lower Deathwatch marine, holy cow.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Exactly. 1.0 caliber is one inch in diameter, meaning that obviously, the barrel opening is 1 inch in diameter.

Some of those freaking art shots have muzzles larger than the depictions of an autocannon. Even those models are drilled out to WAY larger than any of my models. That's pure comic-book scale on the lower Deathwatch marine, holy cow.

I have a HB marine here with me and he looks like the lower model. I don't think he's drilled at all, the HB looks like that.

The upper one I took from FW's product list. FW is sensible, yeah?

The Lewis gun comes to mind.

That's a .30 caliber machine gun. I don't know how big that tube is but it looks like you could stick your hand down it. That's obviously not the barrel, and is in fact an air duct. Anyway, I have no clue how a heavy bolter is supposed to work internally. Maybe they really are just rockets and most of the inside is empty space for venting the exhaust gases.

Pretty much what Veteran Sergeant said. A weapon's muzzle isn't necessarily indicative of the size of the round it fires. Heck, in the first picture in the OP the shell casings the Heavy Bolter spewed out is a lot slimmer than the muzzle of the weapon.

 Raxmei wrote:
The Lewis gun comes to mind.

Spoiler:

That's a .30 caliber machine gun. I don't know how big that tube is but it looks like you could stick your hand down it. That's obviously not the barrel, and is in fact an air duct. Anyway, I have no clue how a heavy bolter is supposed to work internally. Maybe they really are just rockets and most of the inside is empty space for venting the exhaust gases.

Bolts are fired much like bullets and after leaving the barrel the rockets in the bolt fire and speeds up the bolt toward its target

Well then uh its obviously that then! I'll explain this using science. Science fiction!

The big muzzle is so that the rocket propellant expanding doesn't warp the end of the barrel. If there was no big honkin muzzle brake on there you'd just feth up the barrel rifles!

What do you mean it makes no sense in the real world?

lasguns appear to be over a metre long on guardsman models

As others have noted, game art and game models aren't done by weapons designers, it's all rule of cool.

A lot of it also has to do with making the model functional as a game piece, both identifiable and durable. Plastic IG heavy stubbers are huge compared to FW DKoK heavy stubbers, with barrels that look like they're easily 7 or 8 inches thick, but they make much more resilient game pieces. Something I've found quite often when playing with DKoK models, with their more realistically sized weapons, is that people often just can't tell what's what.

Just to point out - I don't know where the original comment came from? - but the 'announced calibre' of 1.0 is for an angelus-calibre bolter shell in FFG's roleplaying games, not a heavy bolter shell - they're even bigger.

locarno24 wrote:
Just to point out - I don't know where the original comment came from? - but the 'announced calibre' of 1.0 is for an angelus-calibre bolter shell in FFG's roleplaying games, not a heavy bolter shell - they're even bigger.

You might want to re-read that. It says "The standard bolter round is .75 calibre and has a super-dense metallic core with diamantine tip."

MarsNZ wrote:
lasguns appear to be over a metre long on guardsman models

That's unexpectedly a perfectly reasonable length for a battle rifle. All the major combatants of WW2 fought with rifles 1.1 meters long or longer. For that matter even an M-16 assault rifle is a meter long. Anyone know how long a pulse rifle is supposed to be?

 Desubot wrote:

 darkapostle7 wrote:
i thought that normal bolter shells are 1.o caliber and that heavy bolters are 1.5 or even 2.0

IIRC normal shells are .75 or some other number. i think there was a lot of contradiction on that as well.

That is correct. Stated bolter caliber has been fairly consistent. Regular bolters are .75 and heavy bolters are 1.0

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Barrels are often much thicker than the exit hole of the round. The size of the compensator/muzzle brake isn't always a good indicator.

That. Plus non-realistic future tech that can be used to justify amplifying this fact from reality by a factor 10 in 40k if we need to .

Sisters have bigger bolts than marines!

Realworld Option 1: Watercooling jacket http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/world-firearms/67083d1259515167-m1917a1-water-cooled-browning-machine-gun-p1000902a.jpg
Realworld Option 2: Aircooling jacket as used on the lewis gun http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Lewis_Gun.jpg

Realworld Option 3: Inner barrel and thicker outer barrel (inner moves in relation to outer) with various reasons as to why... Pull the outer barrel of an XM25 forward and you have a bolter/heavy bolter muzzle appearance

hey, no real world explanations, we want to bash G'dub!

 Ignatius wrote:
Some of the pictures you just posted have heavy bolter muzzles the size of modern day tank barrels. It's simply a case of artists guessing what it would look like and apparently having NO idea how big 1.0 caliber is.

It's also possible the definition of an Inch changes in the next 38,000 years. An inch was something like 3 barely corns laid end to end. Maybe Chaos mutated the barely corn after Humans genetically engineered it in the dark age of humanity. Hence a 40k inch is actually 4 21st centry inches.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
According to some list wherever the Heavy Bolter fires 1.0 caliber rounds.

However, this is extremely contradicted.

show barrels that I am pretty sure are beyond 1.0 caliber.

Do heavy bolters fire some kind of double-sabot rounds or something?

I was always under the impression that bolters, regular bolters, fired .75 calaber rounds, while heavy bolters fired somethign like a soda can (2.5"). Not sure but that was what my memory serves.

Certainly looks like heavy bolters fire soda cans. Although how would they sustain a high RoF if firing sodacans. 30packs are heavy, and an automatic weapon can spit out 30 rounds in 3 seconds.