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Ah.

Honestly, for their over-all points, and special weapon options, I legitimately think Vanguard may end up being one of the best basic troops in all of 40k.

That is unless Doctrine is some debilitating special rule. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Honestly, for their over-all points, and special weapon options, I legitimately think Vanguard may end up being one of the best basic troops in all of 40k.

That is unless Doctrine is some debilitating special rule. :-p

Codex soon?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 MrScience wrote:

The Skitarii do have access to everything the IoM uses except in specific circumstances like the Land Raider (the Emperor said only the Space Marines can if I recall).

Actually it was Guilleman. It was part of his total reorganisation of the Imperial war machine in the wake of the Horus Heresy.

According to the Land Raider IA it was the Emperor, he issued the edict early in the Heresy when the primary Land Raider production world (Anvilus 9) was lost to the rebels.

BrianDavion wrote:


range 18 S3 AP 5 assault 3, and rad poisoning. Rad poisioning does 2 wounds on a roll of 6 regardless of toughness.

I see vanguards and rangers working together on the battlefield, rangers will provide long rangeish support, clearing out special weapons teams and the like that could make like hard for the vanguards. the vanguards fight at medium range and act as a hoard clearer. I think they'll be particularly effective vs, orks guard, gaunts and other "flood em with bodies" type approuches

Even against things with armor saves, Vanguard spit out the wounds.
Against Meq
30 shots, 20 hit, 3.3 wound and 3.3 double wound for 10 wounds. 3.3 dead Meq.
Pretty good for a simple infantry unit costing 100 points.

 Exergy wrote:

 Captain Galenus wrote:


Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.

The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.

(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)

The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.

 Captain Galenus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Captain Galenus wrote:


Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.

The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.

(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)

The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.

'


Yeah I'm thinking of a pair up system, use the rangers to clear out squad leaders and special weapons, and then mop up with the vanguards

BrianDavion wrote:

 Captain Galenus wrote:


The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.

'


Yeah I'm thinking of a pair up system, use the rangers to clear out squad leaders and special weapons, and then mop up with the vanguards

I sure hope that's how they're gonna work best, and if indeed it is it may be one of the few instances when the fluff, rules and roles a unit is meant to play by GW is actually how people play them in game. Excited for these guys!

 aka_mythos wrote:
I'm guessing the dedicated transports were just omitted from WD because those vehicles werent being released at the same time.

Of course they were. I mean, the last thing we need is people investing in a new army knowing what's coming out a mere 168 hours later! People wouldn't be able to cope with such foreknowledge!

 Captain Galenus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.

(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)

The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.

Assault 3 AND wound doubling on 6s. That doesnt make too much difference against grots, but really comes into play against tougher targets.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I see nothing here that will make me open my wallet.

Also am I the only one that when I see this image.


I see this image instead.

I immediately recalled the same image in my mind. That and the strange robots and creatures in the animated movie, Heavy Metal.

Or like some have said: Joust.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Captain Galenus wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Captain Galenus wrote:


Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.

The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.

(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)

The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.

'


Yeah I'm thinking of a pair up system, use the rangers to clear out squad leaders and special weapons, and then mop up with the vanguards

That actually sounds quite fun and interesting. I hope it works out that way.

Hey guys, noob here!

I just started and began with my flesh tearer army but have now seen this new codex and am quite interested.

The issue Im having is, there is plenty of info regarding the existing armies and what each army is good at, i.e orks - meat grinder, space marine - jack of all, eldar - glass canon etc
so im looking at the skitarii and comparing them 1 for 1 with a tactical marine squad it seems they are lesser on all counts? what am i missing, im assuming its the weapons...

sorry for being a noob

Suspecs wrote:
Hey guys, noob here!

I just started and began with my flesh tearer army but have now seen this new codex and am quite interested.

The issue Im having is, there is plenty of info regarding the existing armies and what each army is good at, i.e orks - meat grinder, space marine - jack of all, eldar - glass canon etc
so im looking at the skitarii and comparing them 1 for 1 with a tactical marine squad it seems they are lesser on all counts? what am i missing, im assuming its the weapons...

sorry for being a noob

and the point cost.

Assuming no upgrades a tatical squad is 170 points for 10 men.

A Skitarii Vanguard squad is 100 points for 10 men.

the Skitarii squads can also take 2 special weapons vs the Space Marines 2 (and one of those 2 is a heavy weapon that can't fire on the move) Space Marines bolt guns aren;t quite as good, and their special weapons are, arguerably inferior,

So the admech does have flimsier infantry, but they hit harder are more mobile, and they're going to have MORE of them. for the price of a unupgraded tatical squad, I'm gonna have a 10 man vnaguard squad, with a 5 man squad of rangers for cover fire.

And assuming your space Marines buy the "useal upgrades" you might be looking at an admech player being able to toss two full squads of vanguards atcha.

I'm actually really happy this is coming out. I've been thinking about how to convert some Inquisitorial Acolytes with bolters for a while now.

Considering my Inquisitor has ties with the AdMech, the Ranger/Vanguard kit would be perfect. I'd probably use the Galvanic Rifles as bolters and use the Vanguard helmets. I believe that would nicely represent Carapace armoured Acolytes with Bolters ... supplied ofc by the admech.

Colour-wise I'm thinking White Armour and Purple cloaks.

Suspecs wrote:
Hey guys, noob here!

I just started and began with my flesh tearer army but have now seen this new codex and am quite interested.

The issue Im having is, there is plenty of info regarding the existing armies and what each army is good at, i.e orks - meat grinder, space marine - jack of all, eldar - glass canon etc
so im looking at the skitarii and comparing them 1 for 1 with a tactical marine squad it seems they are lesser on all counts? what am i missing, im assuming its the weapons...

sorry for being a noob

I will be adding Mechanicum forces to my Flesh Tearers army. Why? They are basically chalk and cheese and work like magic together! The Blood Angels' etc. strengths lie in their (expensive) elite choices that butcher most things in CC. You generally don't want these guys sitting around to get shot... Skitarii are cheap and can throw out a lot of effective firepower to the right places and they're great for camping objectives or holding central buildings/terrain. Tactical squads are versatile and can be left behind to shoot stuff, but imho you want them to be worth their points and get up close to the enemy where they are more likely to kill things and earn their points back. They both have different roles and very different synergy, so depending on your play style they will do different things for you. But of course its not all about winning! Right?

Just my thoughts anyway!

 Captain Galenus wrote:


I will be adding Mechanicum forces to my Flesh Tearers army. Why? They are basically chalk and cheese and work like magic together! The Blood Angels' etc. strengths lie in their (expensive) elite choices that butcher most things in CC. You generally don't want these guys sitting around to get shot... Skitarii are cheap and can throw out a lot of effective firepower to the right places and they're great for camping objectives or holding central buildings/terrain. Tactical squads are versatile and can be left behind to shoot stuff, but imho you want them to be worth their points and get up close to the enemy where they are more likely to kill things and earn their points back. They both have different roles and very different synergy, so depending on your play style they will do different things for you. But of course its not all about winning! Right?

Just my thoughts anyway!

While I wholeheartedly agree that the new Skitarii seem like fantastic, effective cheap troops, I'm not yet convinced they'll be an ideal BA ally if you have only 2 detachments. Vanguard aren't THAT much cheaper than tacticals, and more importantly, they have nothing big or super scary (that we know of, yet), which is really what BA lack. Other than Dante, BA really have nothing in the MC/Titan category of destruction and survivability, so if I were playing a 2 detachment force, I would want to have something like centurions with tiggy, imperial knights, GK with dreadknights, etc.

But there are a couple more weeks to go, so I could be totally wrong. Who knows, maybe there will be some HQ or Heavy Support that falls into that category.

As it sits, with the limited rules we currently have, Ad-Mech Skitarii as allies looks to make Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights all significantly scarier.

They PERFECTLY synergize.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for not having anything too scary...

Um... ultra cheap, rapid-fire Haywire that you can put in rented Drop Pods all on a troop choice, outright trumps even Sisters of Battle Melta-Doms as best anti-vehicle anything.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
As it sits, with the limited rules we currently have, Ad-Mech Skitarii as allies looks to make Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights all significantly scarier.

They PERFECTLY synergize.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for not having anything too scary...

Um... ultra cheap, rapid-fire Haywire that you can put in rented Drop Pods all on a troop choice, outright trumps even Sisters of Battle Melta-Doms as best anti-vehicle anything.

I'm not seeing skitarii as providing enough to claim the best ally away from guard. Guard do shooty, hangback objective camping really well.

Skitarii vanguard MIGHT be better than melta/plasma vets, but guard bring so much more than just vets to the table.

Well, by that logic we also know that the Skitarii Walkers are priced aggressively enough to be objective grabbers in an environment where 40k is all about missions of some sort.

Oh, and those same models can do very good anti-air as a completely "free" bonus, as special rules go.

And all this is without knowledge of Relics and formations.

As I said, and stand by it... I think Ad-Mech is gonna do some crazy stuff to the meta unless Doctrine Imperative is horrific. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Well, by that logic we also know that the Skitarii Walkers are priced aggressively enough to be objective grabbers in an environment where 40k is all about missions of some sort.

Oh, and those same models can do very good anti-air as a completely "free" bonus, as special rules go.

I think those walkers might be ok for the points, but the suedoskyfire isnt "free" it's definitely baked into what otherwise would be a terribly expensive away to get autocannons or lascannons.

The $$ price is too high though, which means I will be converting large numbers of mech walker, which is what I wanted to do anyway.

Well $$$-Price has no bearing on rules discussion, but I do agree with you. I definitely think we will see a LOT of converted Walkers, and I myself have already ordered 5 Dust "Wildfire/Honey" Walkers to convert into Ballastarius. They're literally 1/3rd the price, and are only 1/4' to 1/2' shorter... so well in the "reasonable proxy" range of any sane TO.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
They're literally 1/3rd the price, and are only 1/4' to 1/2' shorter... so well in the "reasonable proxy" range of any sane TO.

I hope you mean 1/4" to 1/2" because 1/2' shorter would be a huge difference.

I will have to come up with a back story reason that my DA and Admech are working together. I have gone with a theme of using old tech to hunt a friends CSM so far so should not be hard to roll them in as allies(just can't let them see the truth).

 Exergy wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
They're literally 1/3rd the price, and are only 1/4' to 1/2' shorter... so well in the "reasonable proxy" range of any sane TO.

I hope you mean 1/4" to 1/2" because 1/2' shorter would be a huge difference.

Yes. :-p Typo.

Just say they were both hunting the Chaos (or whatever) and bumped into each other! Since they're both IoM, it should work!

Most Imperium groupings can work by the simple

"We are part of a Crusade"

 Mr Morden wrote:
Most Imperium groupings can work by the simple

"We are part of a Crusade"

yup, it's not hard at all to do. a crusading force consisting of skitarii, dark angels, imperial guard, Imperial Knights with a full fledged titan as the LOW... is pretty fluffy

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Most Imperium groupings can work by the simple

"We are part of a Crusade"

yup, it's not hard at all to do. a crusading force consisting of skitarii, dark angels, imperial guard, Imperial Knights with a full fledged titan as the LOW... is pretty fluffy

well yes, but working together for a longer time would imply some sort of trust and affinity. The DA dont trust many people due to their "secret". You know the secret that practically everyone actually knows, but that they are still in the closet about. It could be that the DA have some dirt on this group of skitarii, that the skitarii have some even worse secret and that makes them virtual slaves of the DA. Or it could be that the skitarii are super interested in one of the fallen for some reason, and that they in the process of investigating revealed to the DA that they know about them and will wipe the memories of the whole fallen thing if the DA help them find some STC that the fallen currently posses, but otherwise will broadcast it to Mars.