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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I would say ditch the 2 Arquebus and use those points elsewhere, for one. They've so garishly expensive. It doesn't mean they don't work, but their price in points is just bad. Doing that would let you upgrade your BA Allies to 5-man Tacticals with a Sanguinary Priest instead of a Tech Marine. Suddenly they get a bunch more durable as objective holders, and can actually do a little work in combat.

Are you taking the Arquebus just for wysiwyg? I think for now most players would, in casual play, let you proxy those two as any other (better) special weapon, if you are consistent in always measuring from the bases correctly/similarly.

Yea I have the Arquebus's modeled because they look really awesome. Taking the priest and Tacs instead of scouts is an idea. Perhaps I will do this after I field the arquebus and inevitably get disappointed by its lackluster performance.

My plans are eventually to get 1 more Skitarii box and a crab tank to fill out those points in the future.

 ultimentra wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I would say ditch the 2 Arquebus and use those points elsewhere, for one. They've so garishly expensive. It doesn't mean they don't work, but their price in points is just bad. Doing that would let you upgrade your BA Allies to 5-man Tacticals with a Sanguinary Priest instead of a Tech Marine. Suddenly they get a bunch more durable as objective holders, and can actually do a little work in combat.

Are you taking the Arquebus just for wysiwyg? I think for now most players would, in casual play, let you proxy those two as any other (better) special weapon, if you are consistent in always measuring from the bases correctly/similarly.

Yea I have the Arquebus's modeled because they look really awesome. Taking the priest and Tacs instead of scouts is an idea. Perhaps I will do this after I field the arquebus and inevitably get disappointed by its lackluster performance.

My plans are eventually to get 1 more Skitarii box and a crab tank to fill out those points in the future.

I would rather have another 5 Rangers than 2 aquebuses. 5 more guys does about the same damage, but can be on another part of the map and take twice the amount to kill.

 ultimentra wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I would say ditch the 2 Arquebus and use those points elsewhere, for one. They've so garishly expensive. It doesn't mean they don't work, but their price in points is just bad. Doing that would let you upgrade your BA Allies to 5-man Tacticals with a Sanguinary Priest instead of a Tech Marine. Suddenly they get a bunch more durable as objective holders, and can actually do a little work in combat.

Are you taking the Arquebus just for wysiwyg? I think for now most players would, in casual play, let you proxy those two as any other (better) special weapon, if you are consistent in always measuring from the bases correctly/similarly.

Yea I have the Arquebus's modeled because they look really awesome. Taking the priest and Tacs instead of scouts is an idea. Perhaps I will do this after I field the arquebus and inevitably get disappointed by its lackluster performance.

My plans are eventually to get 1 more Skitarii box and a crab tank to fill out those points in the future.

Oh, I get it. :-) I built my two Arquebus' too, knowing i'd never use them, but because they look so cool. :-p I couldn't resist. But in casual play, they're always more Arc Rifles, or Plasma Caliver's thus far. :-p

So via some fun with a calculator, I've thought this setup up for Skitarii troops.

10x Vanguard
-3x Plasma

10x Vanguard
-3x Arc
-Arc Pistol

5x Rangers
-1x Arquebus

5x Rangers
-2x Arquebus

Add Omnispexes and survivability upgrades as necessary. Vanguards get Rhinos or Pods. Rangers sit on objectives trolling Wraiths.

The lack of battle reports and actual in game advice in this thread is appalling... So I'll give my two cents after playing with my Skitarii for the first time.

Had an impromptu "Apocalypse" game against an Ultramarine Company and some other assorted SM to fill out points to 5k. I was allied with SoB/GK. Had I planned for a true apocalypse game (they had the UM Chapter formations rules and a STR D Orbital Bombardment apocalypse asset), I would have used some formations, but I felt we fared well against the SM. I will say the SM players were rather inexperienced and didn't know the intricacies of 40k rules, let alone the rules for their own models.

My list was as follows:

10 Rangers
10 Rangers
10 vanguard, phosphor pistol, 2 Plasma Culivers
10 Vanguard, arc pistol and 2 arc guns

2 Sydonian Dragoons with lance

5 Infiltrators w/ swords and stubcarbine, 4++ on the character

Knight w/ battlecannon

AM:
4 Vet squads in Chimeras, 2 with 3 plasma, 2 with 3 melta, carapce armor upgrade
2 Wyverns w/ camo netting
Pask in punisher w/ heavy bolters, squadroned with an Eradicator w/ heavy bolters

My Knight was taken down by Dev squad fire and the orbital bombardment on their turn, so he only drew fire for a turn and was only able to put 2 hull points on 2 rhinos first turn. I do feel like Skitarii need something that can take a lot of shooting while the rest of the army sets up for a turn or two. A Knight Titan should fit the bill nicely, or AV 14 with guard or SM.
My rangers hugged cover in ruins, and were only able to take pot shots at an advancing SM wave that got annihilated by my wyverns (48 wounds on 2.5 squads they crammed into a building, it was glorious). I maybe got 2-3 precision shots rapid fire range, and against a 3+ armor save, they weren't going to do much. I think Rangers will really shine against Guard and Xenos though.
Vanguard absolutely destroyed SM squads that got in range. Their ROF and Rad Poisoning rules make up for low AP. Didn't get to shoot at a vehicle with the Arc Rifles because once we opened up and started taking out Rhinos and Predators in 1 turn, they started to hang back.

Dragoons..... I can't speak highly enough about Dragoons. Fast as hell, Don't scout them, you have a solid chance of a turn 1 charge if people are deployed on the deployment line. They did work against 3 Rhinos and a Predator. I don't think my opponents knew what they were capable of and didn't shoot at them at all, which was a mistake. My Dragoons multi charged 2 Rhinos in a choke point, wrecked both, and trapped half of the SM company into a table corner (ripe pickings for my Wyverns). I would say an Skitarii list needs at least 2 of these, I'm looking into getting 2-4 more to run 2 squads of 2 or 2 full squads of 3. They'll die to any concentrated fire, FW rapid fire range comes to mind, but should be able to pop most transports with ease.

Infiltrators also did work. I would have run Rust stalkers as well, but they weren't put together yet.... I infiltrated these guys in the center of the board behind LOS terrain and just waited. SM drop pods landed next to them, survived a round of shooting with 1 wound taken, and then killed 2 tac squads in 2 game turns with only losing another wound. These guys are your bully unit. Use them like terminators, pick on something that can't fight back well. They will melt against any other dedicated assault unit, AP4 or STR 8. I think they will excel in mutilating SM squads in the back field, or popping up on unsuspecting back field objective holders. Somehow getting them Preferred enemy would be amazing. Would be great to get in the whole army.

Hope this gives some insight for everyone else. I feel like with the new AM stuff coming out, they might fill some of the holes in the Skitarii range. We'll just have to see the rules for everything. And a transport would be nice... Edit: I took omnispexes on everything I could.

Thanks Wingeds... I do appreciate your getting some solid experience down for us to absorb.

 Wingeds wrote:

10 Rangers
10 Rangers
10 vanguard, phosphor pistol, 2 Plasma Culivers
10 Vanguard, arc pistol and 2 arc guns

I agree on keeping the rangers plain. I might want to run 5 man squads instead of 10.
For Vanguard. Why not have 3 of each special. 3 arc guns is much better than 2 arc guns and a arc pistol

 Wingeds wrote:

5 Infiltrators w/ swords and stubcarbine, 4++ on the character

Taser and pistol is better at just about everything

 Wingeds wrote:

Knight w/ battlecannon

Do you prefer the battlecannon to the meltablast?

I don't have a ton of time to post anything in depth, but I would like to echo a few of the above points.

1. Dragoons really are so much better than they seem at a glance. They do work, but are unassuming, and thus usually left low on the opponents priority list.

2. Ally in Pods/Rhinos/etc and Skitarii become a whole different army. Vanguard are, IMO one of the best troops in the entire game. Decked out for Haywire, or Plasma, and given BS 6/7 and Drop-Pods, they can cause debilitating damage to the opponent.

3. Phosphor/Lumingen + Omnispex + an allied in Auspex MELTS bikes... Vanguard, once again, with be MVPs.

 SirDonlad wrote:
I much prefer the ranger heads, but i feel like there isn't enough respect being given for the humble rad-carbine - on a six to wound you get two automatic wounds and it's assault3! so ten guys put out 30 shots? for 100pts!?

Am i missing something here - or is that epic for the points?

18" range is their downside. No transport also hurts. They will get mowed down before they get close.

I mean they are pretty awesome basic troops. Compare them to DE Kabalites and it's commical how much better they are. But they arent game breaking.

Scout mitigates the range issue very handily but it's true - Skitarii without transports are very reliant on getting first turn to get good shots off.

So how do you guys think the new Cult Mechanicus things will end up synergizing with Skitarii? I'm hoping for more resilient units, such as the Kastelans.

Strangely enough, I can see Kastelans actually synergizing with Infiltrators in CC. The Infils drop the enemy unit's WS, and soften up the enemy with their guns, making the Kastelans' low attacks value mean less, and make the enemies hit on 4s on the low-WS robots, and the Kastelan phosphor blaster helps the Infiltrator get their charges in even more effectively.

The only problem I can see with this is that you would probably want to ditch the Fists on the Kastelans to get more shots, but that helps the Infiltrators even more to mop up the units that your Phosphor Blasters damaged. In addition, Kastelans are very slow, and it would be difficult for them to keep up with the fast Infltrators. I will definitely have to test this in-game.

Thank you Wingeds, your post makes me want to pick up 2 Dragoons sooner as a opposed to later.

Also, does anyone know what the base size will be for the Cult Mech. Kataphron destroyers? I am hoping that I'll be able to use my thallax as a proxy.

 Verviedi wrote:
So how do you guys think the new Cult Mechanicus things will end up synergizing with Skitarii? I'm hoping for more resilient units, such as the Kastelans.

Strangely enough, I can see Kastelans actually synergizing with Infiltrators in CC. The Infils drop the enemy unit's WS, and soften up the enemy with their guns, making the Kastelans' low attacks value mean less, and make the enemies hit on 4s on the low-WS robots, and the Kastelan phosphor blaster helps the Infiltrator get their charges in even more effectively.

The only problem I can see with this is that you would probably want to ditch the Fists on the Kastelans to get more shots, but that helps the Infiltrators even more to mop up the units that your Phosphor Blasters damaged. In addition, Kastelans are very slow, and it would be difficult for them to keep up with the fast Infltrators. I will definitely have to test this in-game.

I'll trade the fists every time. Kastelans have an MC unit type, yeah? Means they come stock with smash. S6 AP2 is good enough most of the time for me. S10 is for vehicle or anti-MC duty, which are covered by Arc Rifles and Rad Carbines respectively. Not to mention Neutron Lasers and whatever goodies the Servitors end up rolling in with. But the Kastelans concern me. The points cost is oppressively high for the damage output. You're paying a premium for survivability on them, and they don't quite have the damage output to warrant targeting them (imo).

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
So how do you guys think the new Cult Mechanicus things will end up synergizing with Skitarii? I'm hoping for more resilient units, such as the Kastelans.

Strangely enough, I can see Kastelans actually synergizing with Infiltrators in CC. The Infils drop the enemy unit's WS, and soften up the enemy with their guns, making the Kastelans' low attacks value mean less, and make the enemies hit on 4s on the low-WS robots, and the Kastelan phosphor blaster helps the Infiltrator get their charges in even more effectively.

The only problem I can see with this is that you would probably want to ditch the Fists on the Kastelans to get more shots, but that helps the Infiltrators even more to mop up the units that your Phosphor Blasters damaged. In addition, Kastelans are very slow, and it would be difficult for them to keep up with the fast Infltrators. I will definitely have to test this in-game.

I'll trade the fists every time. Kastelans have an MC unit type, yeah? Means they come stock with smash. S6 AP2 is good enough most of the time for me. S10 is for vehicle or anti-MC duty, which are covered by Arc Rifles and Rad Carbines respectively. Not to mention Neutron Lasers and whatever goodies the Servitors end up rolling in with. But the Kastelans concern me. The points cost is oppressively high for the damage output. You're paying a premium for survivability on them, and they don't quite have the damage output to warrant targeting them (imo).

I agree, I think Kastelans will either end up being a style points unit, or the target of some insane combo we don't see yet and end up being an auto-take like Centurions ended up being. They're really expensive.

Most likely some Canticle of the Omnissiah combined with formation is going to buff the ever-living hell out of them, and the meta shall cry tears of blood.

The fact that the canticles take place in the turn after declaration makes them a very choreographed unit.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
The fact that the canticles take place in the turn after declaration makes them a very choreographed unit.

Protocols, not canticles*

Canticles of the Omnissiah appear to be different than the programming thing; that's the Kastelan Battle Protocols. We still don't know what the Canticles are yet (I think).

Currently I also think that you need to switch out both the fists and the flamer for the shots. It makes them more expensive, but then they actually have significant ranged threat, which as a slow 6" move MC you really need to do anything. Without that, they can effectively be completely ignored unless Canticles can give them a speed boost. With the guns, they have an interesting ranged profile, that's actually kind of good against the DREADED ELDAR GUARDIAN JETBIKE. S6 AP3 that reduces cover if they get a kill is about as good as you can ask for against Eldar Jetbikes (well it's not Ignores Cover, but you can't have everything in life). From a no-extra-models unit that's fully Phosphor, that's 12 shots, half of which are TL. It's still not a lot of firepower out of a Heavy Support Slot, but then again, Skitarii as a whole are really good in firepower but not in survivability, so this actually provides something that can take a hit or two. The other thing that the mass S6 AP3 does is help to counter Flying Hive Tyrants, which Skitarii as a whole don't seem like they have a really good answer to in-faction.

I also agree that S10 is largely unnecessary because of the prevalence of Haywire in Skitarii (that is, if that carries over into Mechanicus or we just see them ally all the time)

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
So how do you guys think the new Cult Mechanicus things will end up synergizing with Skitarii? I'm hoping for more resilient units, such as the Kastelans.

Strangely enough, I can see Kastelans actually synergizing with Infiltrators in CC. The Infils drop the enemy unit's WS, and soften up the enemy with their guns, making the Kastelans' low attacks value mean less, and make the enemies hit on 4s on the low-WS robots, and the Kastelan phosphor blaster helps the Infiltrator get their charges in even more effectively.

The only problem I can see with this is that you would probably want to ditch the Fists on the Kastelans to get more shots, but that helps the Infiltrators even more to mop up the units that your Phosphor Blasters damaged. In addition, Kastelans are very slow, and it would be difficult for them to keep up with the fast Infltrators. I will definitely have to test this in-game.

I'll trade the fists every time. Kastelans have an MC unit type, yeah? Means they come stock with smash. S6 AP2 is good enough most of the time for me. S10 is for vehicle or anti-MC duty, which are covered by Arc Rifles and Rad Carbines respectively. Not to mention Neutron Lasers and whatever goodies the Servitors end up rolling in with. But the Kastelans concern me. The points cost is oppressively high for the damage output. You're paying a premium for survivability on them, and they don't quite have the damage output to warrant targeting them (imo).

and the Kastelans can always elect to double strength and lower their attacks if they come up against a knight or a landraider. They dont have enough attacks to the point that going down to 1 would hinder them that much.

Losing 1 attack and natural str10 is well worth it if you are getting str6 AP3 3 shots at 36"

It also doesnt matter too much how fast you are if you are spitting out 6 shots str6 at 36" with AP3

Canticles are supposedly the same as doctrina imperatives, but with different effects and they get more powerful with how many units you have on the board.

/end speculation

 Exergy wrote:

 Wingeds wrote:

10 Rangers
10 Rangers
10 vanguard, phosphor pistol, 2 Plasma Culivers
10 Vanguard, arc pistol and 2 arc guns

I agree on keeping the rangers plain. I might want to run 5 man squads instead of 10.
For Vanguard. Why not have 3 of each special. 3 arc guns is much better than 2 arc guns and a arc pistol

 Wingeds wrote:

5 Infiltrators w/ swords and stubcarbine, 4++ on the character

Taser and pistol is better at just about everything

 Wingeds wrote:

Knight w/ battlecannon

Do you prefer the battlecannon to the meltablast?

2 Arc rifles and plasma because that's what you can make from 2 boxes. 3 culivers is extremely expensive, and I feel like the vanguard have enough volume of fire anyways. 3 arc guns is kin of overkill when the vast majority of vehicles have 3 hull points.

Infiltrators with taser... might be better on paper, but I'd much rather cut through most armor in the game reliably then have to deal with rng on armor save rolls. Just my personal preference.

I've only used the knight once, battlecannons always seemed to wreck my day as a SM player, so I wanted to return the favor.

I think the Battle Cannon is the much better option on the knight personally

The only thing it cannot do is penetrate AV14, but that's what the Chainsword is for

Besides, Skitarii are in dire need of more than one high-strength weapon with longer range then 24"

I've got a question about my Skitarii army if anyone here wants to answer it. In my 600pts force I have 5 squads of Vanguard, 3 with just carbines, 1 with Arc weaponry, last with plasma, these are all 5 man squads. My question is, should I replace on of the carbine squads with a 5 man Ranger squad with just rifles? I'm unsure about the idea, but I can see many positives and negatives about it. I think that a small Ranger squad like this would do some damage to Xenos and Guard, but I'm unsure. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 IHateNids wrote:
I think the Battle Cannon is the much better option on the knight personally

The only thing it cannot do is penetrate AV14, but that's what the Chainsword is for

Besides, Skitarii are in dire need of more than one high-strength weapon with longer range then 24"

I would say they are in dire need of something to knock out 2+ saves at range. Plasma is short range and neutron lasers wont get more than 1 terminator unless they are seriously clumped or lucky scatter.

Not sure on the Melta vs Battlecannon, just my thinking.

 Thariinye wrote:
Canticles of the Omnissiah appear to be different than the programming thing; that's the Kastelan Battle Protocols. We still don't know what the Canticles are yet (I think).

Currently I also think that you need to switch out both the fists and the flamer for the shots. It makes them more expensive, but then they actually have significant ranged threat, which as a slow 6" move MC you really need to do anything. Without that, they can effectively be completely ignored unless Canticles can give them a speed boost. With the guns, they have an interesting ranged profile, that's actually kind of good against the DREADED ELDAR GUARDIAN JETBIKE. S6 AP3 that reduces cover if they get a kill is about as good as you can ask for against Eldar Jetbikes (well it's not Ignores Cover, but you can't have everything in life). From a no-extra-models unit that's fully Phosphor, that's 12 shots, half of which are TL. It's still not a lot of firepower out of a Heavy Support Slot, but then again, Skitarii as a whole are really good in firepower but not in survivability, so this actually provides something that can take a hit or two. The other thing that the mass S6 AP3 does is help to counter Flying Hive Tyrants, which Skitarii as a whole don't seem like they have a really good answer to in-faction.

I also agree that S10 is largely unnecessary because of the prevalence of Haywire in Skitarii (that is, if that carries over into Mechanicus or we just see them ally all the time)

They have a great answer for flyrants and such, that being iccarus array onagers. Two of these will almost delete, to completely delete a hive tyrant each turn (depending on jink rolls, which would serve their purpose anyway)

 Exergy wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
I think the Battle Cannon is the much better option on the knight personally

The only thing it cannot do is penetrate AV14, but that's what the Chainsword is for

Besides, Skitarii are in dire need of more than one high-strength weapon with longer range then 24"

I would say they are in dire need of something to knock out 2+ saves at range. Plasma is short range and neutron lasers wont get more than 1 terminator unless they are seriously clumped or lucky scatter.

Not sure on the Melta vs Battlecannon, just my thinking.

Completely agreed, only to my knowledge AP2 doesn't exist at 'long range'. 24" or CC Unwieldy seems to be where the AP2 lives, unless you are planning on turning things like Lascannons against infantry (Or play Eldar...).

Allied BA fast vindicators would be an idea. Move 12", lob a S10AP2 pie 24", all for the cheap price of 130 points

Synergises well with the Flesh Tearers Rent-a-Pod, being the same army book

Hey guys, I need some advice.

I've got 4 boxes of the infiltrators/rust stalkers & I'm trying to decide how to build them. My initial thought was to build two squads of infiltrators and two of rust stalkers as I think that's the most versatile disposition of the units & gives me the option of hitting at multiple locations on the battlefield using the infiltrators debuff & rust stalker assault synergy. I am torn though, as the special 1x infiltrator, 3x rust stalker formation (detachment?) would allow me to easily take that group with one of my other Imperial armies.

I was wondering if those of you who've already had some experience playing with these units or are better tacticians (not difficult) might tender some sage advice.

Many thanks!

I am also torn, I really REALLY love those models, but I just... dont think that formation is all that useful. Taking it means they lose both scout and crusader.

I understand wanting to take it with other armies, which I can only suggest then that you magnetize them.

In my opinion, I would go for the Kilclade formation as I think that it has great battlefield potential. What I like most is the ability to spread the Neurostatic even further, but that's just me. Not to sound like a jerk, but could you also help me on my question that's on the thread?

Killclade. It's benefits outweigh the negatives.

Where is your question, Decay?