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I don't think that that's legal.

What do you guys think about the Holy Requisitioner formation? I'm making a 1250 points list with Skitarii and Cult and I wanted something fun to use from Cult, and I like the look of it.

Leth wrote:So the destroyers getting heavy flamers for 5 points might actually be worth it. That over watch kills a lot of things that would assault them, even marines have to worry about that level of wounds.

Also definitely want to run them in units of 3, not having split fire kills the ability to take advantage of larger sizes and you it buffs. Also keeps them pod sized when you throw in one character

They're cognis flamers, not heavy flamers, so unfortunately, not as good as I'd like them to be. Against MEQ, 9 hits, 4.5 wounds, 1.5 marines dead on average. Not that good.

Ir0njack wrote:I just thought of this but for arcguard would it be worth it to stick two arc pistols on the alpha?

Even if you could, you don't have the gunslinger ability that Cypher has that allows you to shoot both pistols multiple times. So all you're paying for is +1 attack for 2 pistols... which you already get with 1 pistol and a CCW.

Decay wrote:What do you guys think about the Holy Requisitioner formation? I'm making a 1250 points list with Skitarii and Cult and I wanted something fun to use from Cult, and I like the look of it.

The problem is losing one round's worth of shooting, and also hoping that your opponent doesn't just castle up around their objectives and prevent you from deepstriking. Your Dominus has to be placed within 6" of the objective to not scatter, and then the squad within 6" of him. That's tough to pull off if your opponent knows that that's coming.

I'll just use the Elimination Maniple then, and take a Dominus with them.

 Decay wrote:
I'll just use the Elimination Maniple then, and take a Dominus with them.

Yeah... At this point in time that's the route I'm going with. The problem is that to take a Dominus with an Elimination Maniple (since its a full formation in itself), you need to take it as an Allied Detachment, a CM detachment, or CAD.

So can anyone foresee Rangers having any use? Or are Vanguard just leaps and bounds better than them in almost every respect?

Only thing I can think of is using them against GEQ or 4-5+ save models, sniping out special weapons (flamers mostly) before charges by other units.

Is there any reason not to assemble Destroyers with grav and phosphor? My main army is Dark Angels so I have plasma and need grav so...

 Enigwolf wrote:

Ir0njack wrote:I just thought of this but for arcguard would it be worth it to stick two arc pistols on the alpha?

Even if you could, you don't have the gunslinger ability that Cypher has that allows you to shoot both pistols multiple times. So all you're paying for is +1 attack for 2 pistols... which you already get with 1 pistol and a CCW.

All models in 7th may shoot two pistols. This is common for Inferno pistols in Blood Angel drop pod rosters.

Unfortunately the Skitarii Ranged Weapons list says "may swap ranged weapon" so an Alpha may not use two pistols. (He may take any number of Melee Weapons tho there's little value.)

axisofentropy wrote:
Is there any reason not to assemble Destroyers with grav and phosphor? My main army is Dark Angels so I have plasma and need grav so...

 Enigwolf wrote:

Ir0njack wrote:I just thought of this but for arcguard would it be worth it to stick two arc pistols on the alpha?

Even if you could, you don't have the gunslinger ability that Cypher has that allows you to shoot both pistols multiple times. So all you're paying for is +1 attack for 2 pistols... which you already get with 1 pistol and a CCW.

All models in 7th may shoot two pistols. This is common for Inferno pistols in Blood Angel drop pod rosters.

Unfortunately the Skitarii Ranged Weapons list says "may swap ranged weapon" so an Alpha may not use two pistols. (He may take any number of Melee Weapons tho there's little value.)

:O How have I never known this?!?!

 Enigwolf wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
Is there any reason not to assemble Destroyers with grav and phosphor? My main army is Dark Angels so I have plasma and need grav so...

 Enigwolf wrote:

Ir0njack wrote:I just thought of this but for arcguard would it be worth it to stick two arc pistols on the alpha?

Even if you could, you don't have the gunslinger ability that Cypher has that allows you to shoot both pistols multiple times. So all you're paying for is +1 attack for 2 pistols... which you already get with 1 pistol and a CCW.

All models in 7th may shoot two pistols. This is common for Inferno pistols in Blood Angel drop pod rosters.

Unfortunately the Skitarii Ranged Weapons list says "may swap ranged weapon" so an Alpha may not use two pistols. (He may take any number of Melee Weapons tho there's little value.)

:O How have I never known this?!?!

Ah darn, you right. I missed that part. Well it was a cool idea atleast, that's what happen when you're building armies at like 3am heh.

 Wingeds wrote:
So can anyone foresee Rangers having any use? Or are Vanguard just leaps and bounds better than them in almost every respect?

Only thing I can think of is using them against GEQ or 4-5+ save models, sniping out special weapons (flamers mostly) before charges by other units.

Well, to make them useful, we have to use the stuff that Rangers do better than Vanguard -- Move Through Cover and 30" AP4 Precision Shot guns.

I'd certainly not take them in numbers anywhere near those of Vanguard. I'd take small squads (MSU maybe) of them, maybe with one Arquebus, and use them to sneak about in various ruins, grabbing objectives and taking potshots at squads, hoping to pick off important models/special weapons.

I'd avoid all specials except for the arquebus, because the plasma and arc get rid of the range benefit of the 30" guns.

Overall, they're not as versatile as vanguard, but they have their uses.

I'm not seeing any really top-tier competitive tournament builds for Skitarii/Cult Mech at the moment since the +1 BS Ignores Cover formation turned out to be a dud.

Skitarii/Flesh Tearers is still solid but functionally it really isn't very different from any other drop pod army.

They also can't handle decurion Necrons at the moment or Tyranid Malanthrope/FMC spam.

Rangers would be much more useful with Objective Secured, I think.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:I'm not seeing any really top-tier competitive tournament builds for Skitarii/Cult Mech at the moment since the +1 BS Ignores Cover formation turned out to be a dud.

Skitarii/Flesh Tearers is still solid but functionally it really isn't very different from any other drop pod army.

They also can't handle decurion Necrons at the moment or Tyranid Malanthrope/FMC spam.

The white dwarf formation could in an 1850 pts tournament just barely pass the mark of being able to fight on par with decrons, Fnids, and CWE. It requires a lot of thought to play the army well though so it would take a tireless player to win 9 games with it. Still if you can keep your wits about you this army could have an answer for everything.

One of the combos I saw when I read my codex for the cult mech is the cognis artifact put into a unit of heavy grav destroyers behind an ADL. This unit can GtG when fired upon getting a 2+ cover save on T5 W2 models, fire effectively against flyrants (averages 4 wounds without rerolls or jink) and can undo GtG using the fearless canticle thus getting back up when they need.

As for decurion the biggest thing to remember is that killing a spyder for skitarii or cult is trivial to manage. High toughness models are in some cases easier for them to kill than normal infantry. I think people are also currently underestimating powerfist kastelans, in a major way. These units are T7 3+ FnP, can have 2+ 4++ FnP tanks to bounce wounds off of and after a turn they can switch to having 5 attacks (4 base +1 two PF) with +1 for charge and +1-3 attacks for canticles. You are looking at a single kastelan putting out 8 Str 10 AP2 attacks a turn possibly with psychic powers to boost them if you brought an ally. It will be very hard for a decurion to effectively engage a bunch of T7 2+ 4++ FnP units (tank with the tech priest datasmith since crons tend to lack Str 8 AP2 shooting) backed up by T5 units that GtG or have shrouding +stealth for 2+ cover saves. The cult mech at least hits a lot of the weak points in the decurion army style. Funny enough it also hits a lot of weak points in the typical CWE netlist as scatbikes and wraithknights will find it difficult to survive return fire and hard to hurt these units when played well.

I can actually see (to a degree) why the white dwarf formation gave so many extreme bonuses to the formation as honestly the cult mech units function incredibly well with each other and adding skitarii to them is actually sort of a waste of pts. There just isn't much synergy between the armies and there is a lot of overlap, the only unit I really like from a combined perspective is cheap vanguard units to help fill flesh out the scoring ability of the cult mech. It would be a completely different thing if the skitarii had any ObjSec units or could even get anything ObjSec though.

 Wingeds wrote:
So can anyone foresee Rangers having any use? Or are Vanguard just leaps and bounds better than them in almost every respect?

Only thing I can think of is using them against GEQ or 4-5+ save models, sniping out special weapons (flamers mostly) before charges by other units.

Ever played against Khorne Daemonkin?

Rangers are great against them, since Precision Shots lets you choose who to allocate wounds to...meaning you can potentially leave a unit with just their champion, denying someone two Blood Tithe points.

Played a game today against my friend's Tau with me using the WD formation 1850 using the list i had posted a page back

Having an extra 500ish points of upgrades makes that formation fairly strong, he had told me he had actually tailored his list against mine with a crazy turn 2 beta strike Tau outflanking list.

So with the Skitarii and/or Cult formations (well I guess it would just apply to formations in general) you get JUST the units listed in the formation? Or could I say have a battle maniple and add another squad of vanguard in it?

I ask because I've honestly yet to play with any sort of formation with my IG. The Admech ones look appealing and I couldnt find the answer to this specific question anywhere.

 Ir0njack wrote:
So with the Skitarii and/or Cult formations (well I guess it would just apply to formations in general) you get JUST the units listed in the formation? Or could I say have a battle maniple and add another squad of vanguard in it?

I ask because I've honestly yet to play with any sort of formation with my IG. The Admech ones look appealing and I couldnt find the answer to this specific question anywhere.

You only get what the formation details...so in the case of the Skitarii formation you're talking about, you cannot add units. The Battle Maniple is literally one unit of everything (except Dragoons or Ballistarii being one or the other). The positive side is that the regular Skitarii Maniple requires two troops and you can add two additional squads that way.

 Enigwolf wrote:

Leth wrote:So the destroyers getting heavy flamers for 5 points might actually be worth it. That over watch kills a lot of things that would assault them, even marines have to worry about that level of wounds.

Also definitely want to run them in units of 3, not having split fire kills the ability to take advantage of larger sizes and you it buffs. Also keeps them pod sized when you throw in one character

They're cognis flamers, not heavy flamers, so unfortunately, not as good as I'd like them to be. Against MEQ, 9 hits, 4.5 wounds, 1.5 marines dead on average. Not that good.

Ir0njack wrote:I just thought of this but for arcguard would it be worth it to stick two arc pistols on the alpha?

Even if you could, you don't have the gunslinger ability that Cypher has that allows you to shoot both pistols multiple times. So all you're paying for is +1 attack for 2 pistols... which you already get with 1 pistol and a CCW.

Decay wrote:What do you guys think about the Holy Requisitioner formation? I'm making a 1250 points list with Skitarii and Cult and I wanted something fun to use from Cult, and I like the look of it.

The problem is losing one round's worth of shooting, and also hoping that your opponent doesn't just castle up around their objectives and prevent you from deepstriking. Your Dominus has to be placed within 6" of the objective to not scatter, and then the squad within 6" of him. That's tough to pull off if your opponent knows that that's coming.

On mine it says cognis flamers have the same stat line as heavy flamers....

I play tested a couple games today guys and have a lot of fun with the army however foot slogging definitely sucks especially with my Vanguard, lost my second game because they couldn't get to my opponent fast enough and got caught out in the open, even in train they couldn't stand up to hi fire power output armies. Anyone ever considered putting them in Razorbacks out of the BA Flesh Tearers formation or even ally them with the Militarium Tempestus book to put them in Taurox Primes? I mention those to specifically because they are fast vehicles and can get our guys closer quicker. I know drop pods are an excellent choice I just have had people complain that they aren't a fluffy choice.

 gmaleron wrote:
I play tested a couple games today guys and have a lot of fun with the army however foot slogging definitely sucks especially with my Vanguard, lost my second game because they couldn't get to my opponent fast enough and got caught out in the open, even in train they couldn't stand up to hi fire power output armies. Anyone ever considered putting them in Razorbacks out of the BA Flesh Tearers formation or even ally them with the Militarium Tempestus book to put them in Taurox Primes? I mention those to specifically because they are fast vehicles and can get our guys closer quicker. I know drop pods are an excellent choice I just don't think they are a very fluffy one.

I would do rhinos at that point for the fire points, however losing out on scout would be rough.

 k0v wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
So with the Skitarii and/or Cult formations (well I guess it would just apply to formations in general) you get JUST the units listed in the formation? Or could I say have a battle maniple and add another squad of vanguard in it?

I ask because I've honestly yet to play with any sort of formation with my IG. The Admech ones look appealing and I couldnt find the answer to this specific question anywhere.

You only get what the formation details...so in the case of the Skitarii formation you're talking about, you cannot add units. The Battle Maniple is literally one unit of everything (except Dragoons or Ballistarii being one or the other). The positive side is that the regular Skitarii Maniple requires two troops and you can add two additional squads that way.

Ah so the regular Skitarii maniple gives the same benefits with the exception of datalock. I literally didn't not notice it until you pointed the regula maniple out Thanks!

 Leth wrote:

On mine it says cognis flamers have the same stat line as heavy flamers....

Your WD or your 'dex?

That is wrong though, the Dex says that it is a normal Flamer with Cognis.

The kastellan robots flamers have torrent, seriously thinking about maiming those.

 Orock wrote:
The kastellan robots flamers have torrent, seriously thinking about maiming those.

It's still just a normal flamer, though. Unless your meta is GEQ heavy, it's still not awfully useful compared to more AP3 shots. If it was a heavy flamer with torrent, on the other hand, it'd solve a lot of problems with castling Tau/Eldar armies.

My digital codex says heavy flamer profile for the cognis flamers, for the combustors its regular flamer

So me and some mates came to the realisation that between us we can field that Mechanicus War Convocation formation from White Dwarf, and we're gonna give it a go (I'm bringing the Knight). It seems pretty powerful with all that free wargear, but without really knowing anything about Skitarri or Mechanicus codex I'm not really sure whats the best way to go about. I assume loading up on Plasma is the way to go since you can't Get's Hot?

I have been trying to make it work, and while the free stuff can be powerful you only have about 400 points or so of additional models that you can buy, and that is either to bulk out skitarii squads, buy a knight, or 1-2 mechanicus units. While the free upgrades are nice you just dont get any of the redundency that you need for an army like this to work, as well as you are forgoing allies if you want to bulk up the units to useable sizes.

I found that I was burning more points in models that I didnt see myself using than I was getting in meaningful upgrades.

Rather have access to two dominus and objective secured.

 GoonBandito wrote:
So me and some mates came to the realisation that between us we can field that Mechanicus War Convocation formation from White Dwarf, and we're gonna give it a go (I'm bringing the Knight). It seems pretty powerful with all that free wargear, but without really knowing anything about Skitarri or Mechanicus codex I'm not really sure whats the best way to go about. I assume loading up on Plasma is the way to go since you can't Get's Hot?

The standard thinking is to take Plasma on the unit of vanguard, because of its costs otherwise and the no gets hot. The Destroyers though I would still field with grav. The rangers I am going to be using with aquebuses, as rangers within 18" of things tend to die rather quickly and without the radium i dont see the use in having them that close.

For the rust stalkers/infiltrators you are going to want to use your first canticle first turn. Deploy them out of LOS and then try to harry something. For me they are the chaff of the list, but with the free relics and wargear on the primes I can see getting some use out of them.

The rest of the army is very shooty. Try to keep your destroyers alive in cover or behind your robots. As to whether you take a sniper dragoon or a charging dragon is your preference, but remember 1 of either is unlikey to do much.

*sigh* GW, why you no write good rules?

I was really looking forward to using the Cybernetica Cohort, but someone over on B&C has pointed out that GW have cacked their pants again over the wording of the special rule.

As-written, you can actually have two Protocols active at the same time; in the normal protocol rule it states that one protocol replaces another when they activate at the start of your turn, and the Mask relic specifically uses that same wording, but the Cohort rules state that you can choose a protocol at the end of your turn and it will "take effect" immediately. Nowhere is there wording which implies it overrides the standard rules for when one protocol replaces another, meaning strict RAW if lets say you had the shooty protocol active, you could choose the FNP protocol at the end of your turn and have it take effect immediately, so you would have FNP AND shooty active in your enemy's turn, but the FNP would not actually replace shooty until the start of your next turn.

Great, so at pick-up games unless I can persuade the opponent to just ignore that rule altogether, I either have to accept the common non-RAW reading of the rule and end up with protocol rules that are actually worse for the formation than 'bots outside of it, or I have to be TFG and make a really pedantic argument to gain a minor advantage.