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It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
People also thought rangers were the new hotness and vanguard were trash

Seriously? I have never seen any example of this. Isn't that like saying Fire Warriors are better than Devilgaunts?

Yea, I need to buy one of those plasma obliterated ta while I am in China, they have one or two on the shelf

Electropriests can probably be made to work reasonably well in forces that are mostly drawn from C:CM, where you have maxed out Canticles with a reuse from the Detachment, so they can be Shrouded for the first couple of turns while they Run up the board, and then get the Strength boost or extra-hits electrocution powers, but I think to get any value out of them you're going to have to go all-in and take tons, which will cost a fortune in both points and cash.

I bought one box because I really liked the models but there's no way I can afford to buy the 6+ additional boxes needed to run a list like that, so I'll be using them to counts-as one of the new SM Librarius formations.

 Verviedi wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
People also thought rangers were the new hotness and vanguard were trash

Seriously? I have never seen any example of this. Isn't that like saying Fire Warriors are better than Devilgaunts?

When the WD with their stats came out, people were all over the rangers cause of the 30 inch range of their guns, they though Vanguard were trash with an 18 inch low str gun. How wrong they were

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
People also thought rangers were the new hotness and vanguard were trash

Seriously? I have never seen any example of this. Isn't that like saying Fire Warriors are better than Devilgaunts?

When the WD with their stats came out, people were all over the rangers cause of the 30 inch range of their guns, they though Vanguard were trash with an 18 inch low str gun. How wrong they were

Because people like to talk without mathhammering. If you go back to the early pages of this thread it was pretty well mathhammered and concluded that Vanguard > Rangers, while arquebuses were a "meh" case due to their cost.

 Leth wrote:
Yea, I need to buy one of those plasma obliterated ta while I am in China, they have one or two on the shelf

In that case, there is one thing you should know. If I were you I would be mindful of the fact that they were put out in a strictly limited run for a reason. The reason is that they were outsourced to a new third party production company (probably somewhere in China) that pretty much failed on quality control. These pieces will have bad mold lines, some melted parts, parts that don't fit, parts that have been filed off, parts that weren't filed off. It was probably, barring a metal model that I tried converting with a dull file one time, the worst experience assembling a miniature I have ever had. Even now that I'm done with the assembly, I still need to greenstuff it because several days worth of careful (and/or intense) filing/scraping was not enough to make this model fit together.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

Yah but it can be taken in the CM congregation part of the WD formation, so a building that loses get hots, gets free upgrades, and is affected by canticles is huge.

Stealth + Shroud/Twin linking everyday. There are better buildings to abuse this free upgrade situation tho probably.

TuddFudders wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

Yah but it can be taken in the CM congregation part of the WD formation, so a building that loses get hots, gets free upgrades, and is affected by canticles is huge.

Stealth + Shroud/Twin linking everyday. There are better buildings to abuse this free upgrade situation tho probably.

the building gains none of those advantages. Its not part of the required formation. So you do not get free upgrades, access to canticles for it, OR no gets hot. The only other things that can benefit from those besides whats in the formation are extra cult mechanicus units you purchase, because the formation allows more stuff from them.

 Orock wrote:

TuddFudders wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

Yah but it can be taken in the CM congregation part of the WD formation, so a building that loses get hots, gets free upgrades, and is affected by canticles is huge.

Stealth + Shroud/Twin linking everyday. There are better buildings to abuse this free upgrade situation tho probably.

the building gains none of those advantages. Its not part of the required formation. So you do not get free upgrades, access to canticles for it, OR no gets hot. The only other things that can benefit from those besides whats in the formation are extra cult mechanicus units you purchase, because the formation allows more stuff from them.

iirc, the Battle Congregation from CM allows one fortification, thus making the fortification part of the formation.

Yea, thats correct.

Stealth and shrouded on a aquila stronghold lol

Quarterdime wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Yea, I need to buy one of those plasma obliterated ta while I am in China, they have one or two on the shelf

In that case, there is one thing you should know. If I were you I would be mindful of the fact that they were put out in a strictly limited run for a reason. The reason is that they were outsourced to a new third party production company (probably somewhere in China) that pretty much failed on quality control. These pieces will have bad mold lines, some melted parts, parts that don't fit, parts that have been filed off, parts that weren't filed off. It was probably, barring a metal model that I tried converting with a dull file one time, the worst experience assembling a miniature I have ever had. Even now that I'm done with the assembly, I still need to greenstuff it because several days worth of careful (and/or intense) filing/scraping was not enough to make this model fit together.

Whoa, that bad? There's one Plasma Obliterator in my FLGS going for like USD$70, I'm still on the fence about picking it up. Maybe I can negotiate down the price if the quality of the parts inside are poor.

obsidiankatana wrote:

 Orock wrote:

TuddFudders wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

Yah but it can be taken in the CM congregation part of the WD formation, so a building that loses get hots, gets free upgrades, and is affected by canticles is huge.

Stealth + Shroud/Twin linking everyday. There are better buildings to abuse this free upgrade situation tho probably.

the building gains none of those advantages. Its not part of the required formation. So you do not get free upgrades, access to canticles for it, OR no gets hot. The only other things that can benefit from those besides whats in the formation are extra cult mechanicus units you purchase, because the formation allows more stuff from them.

iirc, the Battle Congregation from CM allows one fortification, thus making the fortification part of the formation.

This. Battle Congregation is part of the War Convocation. Battle Congregation allows one fortification. War Convocation states that the rules apply to all models in it. Therefore, fortifications as part of the Battle Congregation have the formation special rules. I wonder if Vengeance Weapon Batteries or Firestorm Redoubts would be better, since they're cheaper and you can field multiple (IIRC, it was like 100 points for a bat cannon?) Slap on Void Shields and Magos Machine Spirit for lulz, and tank traps around it to make it more difficult to be capped.

Vengeance Batteries seem like a cheap way to boost Canticle numbers, if nothing else. Also durable to retain those numbers.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Vengeance Batteries seem like a cheap way to boost Canticle numbers, if nothing else. Also durable to retain those numbers.

Would they count as a squad of 1 unit though? Or 2? It does say that each is deployed as a separate fortification. And my bad, Vengeances can only take upgrades from the Obstacles list. :( Now, the Firestorm Redoubt on the other hand... 2 Battle Cannons for ~200 points, with 14 AV and Void Shields, plus the option to take a Gun Emplacement with Icarus Lascannon.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Vengeance Batteries seem like a cheap way to boost Canticle numbers, if nothing else. Also durable to retain those numbers.

Would they count as a squad of 1 unit though? Or 2? It does say that each is deployed as a separate fortification. And my bad, Vengeances can only take upgrades from the Obstacles list. :( Now, the Firestorm Redoubt on the other hand... 2 Battle Cannons for ~200 points, with 14 AV and Void Shields, plus the option to take a Gun Emplacement with Icarus Lascannon.

Canticles aren't counted by models but rather units; so I'd say Vengeance Batteries count as 1.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Vengeance Batteries seem like a cheap way to boost Canticle numbers, if nothing else. Also durable to retain those numbers.

Would they count as a squad of 1 unit though? Or 2? It does say that each is deployed as a separate fortification. And my bad, Vengeances can only take upgrades from the Obstacles list. :( Now, the Firestorm Redoubt on the other hand... 2 Battle Cannons for ~200 points, with 14 AV and Void Shields, plus the option to take a Gun Emplacement with Icarus Lascannon.

Canticles aren't counted by models but rather units; so I'd say Vengeance Batteries count as 1.

Hmm. Perhaps the fortification formation out of Stronghold assault then? 1 Bunker, 1 Defense Line, 1 Defense Emplacement minimum (iirc) + a number of optional vengeance batteries, firestorms, more defense lines/emplacements, bunkers, etc. Imperial Strongpoint I think it is. Counts as a single fortification slot, so legal for the War Convocation.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Vengeance Batteries seem like a cheap way to boost Canticle numbers, if nothing else. Also durable to retain those numbers.

Would they count as a squad of 1 unit though? Or 2? It does say that each is deployed as a separate fortification. And my bad, Vengeances can only take upgrades from the Obstacles list. :( Now, the Firestorm Redoubt on the other hand... 2 Battle Cannons for ~200 points, with 14 AV and Void Shields, plus the option to take a Gun Emplacement with Icarus Lascannon.

Canticles aren't counted by models but rather units; so I'd say Vengeance Batteries count as 1.

Hmm. Perhaps the fortification formation out of Stronghold assault then? 1 Bunker, 1 Defense Line, 1 Defense Emplacement minimum (iirc) + a number of optional vengeance batteries, firestorms, more defense lines/emplacements, bunkers, etc. Imperial Strongpoint I think it is. Counts as a single fortification slot, so legal for the War Convocation.

Jeez man, what points value are you playing at? 2500? (But yes I did see that too and was thinking of all the lulz a castling War Convocation army could have...)

 Enigwolf wrote:
Jeez man, what points value are you playing at? 2500? (But yes I did see that too and was thinking of all the lulz a castling War Convocation army could have...)

I've been trapped at <1k for the past month. I YEARN FOR LARGE ARMIES!

But thaaat's somewhere in the 2k points range, I believe. Upgrades all being free and such.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
People also thought rangers were the new hotness and vanguard were trash

Seriously? I have never seen any example of this. Isn't that like saying Fire Warriors are better than Devilgaunts?

When the WD with their stats came out, people were all over the rangers cause of the 30 inch range of their guns, they though Vanguard were trash with an 18 inch low str gun. How wrong they were

Because people like to talk without mathhammering. If you go back to the early pages of this thread it was pretty well mathhammered and concluded that Vanguard > Rangers, while arquebuses were a "meh" case due to their cost.

This thread started well after the admech news and rumors thread, where most people were trashtalking vanguard.

Well, to be fair, at that point people also didn't know that there was going to be Scout on bloody everything. And Rangers are better than Vanguard if they don't have Scout or allied Drop Pods, imo. The short range guns are only useful if they get in range, so if you don't Pod them in or run up super fast, Rangers are a much better choice thanks to the rifles.

Once the detachment was leaked and people started thinking about allying in, it became clear that Vanguard worked better there.

LGS has a few of the plasma oblits left, tempted to buy one, just cause I think they're neat and my collection could use a building

No reason people can't just put in a cheap 50 point shield generator that automatically gets fully upgraded it seems.

This is great to hear! I now have more uses for all of my fortifications and sheild gen!

 Orock wrote:

TuddFudders wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

Yah but it can be taken in the CM congregation part of the WD formation, so a building that loses get hots, gets free upgrades, and is affected by canticles is huge.

Stealth + Shroud/Twin linking everyday. There are better buildings to abuse this free upgrade situation tho probably.

the building gains none of those advantages. Its not part of the required formation. So you do not get free upgrades, access to canticles for it, OR no gets hot. The only other things that can benefit from those besides whats in the formation are extra cult mechanicus units you purchase, because the formation allows more stuff from them.

Wait, so that means the only models that get those benefits are the knight, and the HQ + 2 troops from each side? Nothing else? Are you sure?

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Orock wrote:

TuddFudders wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
It's pretty nasty. But expensive at 230 puts.

Yah but it can be taken in the CM congregation part of the WD formation, so a building that loses get hots, gets free upgrades, and is affected by canticles is huge.

Stealth + Shroud/Twin linking everyday. There are better buildings to abuse this free upgrade situation tho probably.

the building gains none of those advantages. Its not part of the required formation. So you do not get free upgrades, access to canticles for it, OR no gets hot. The only other things that can benefit from those besides whats in the formation are extra cult mechanicus units you purchase, because the formation allows more stuff from them.

Wait, so that means the only models that get those benefits are the knight, and the HQ + 2 troops from each side? Nothing else? Are you sure?

Fortifications get the benefits as the ruling as per the formation states applies to all units in the formation. Since Fortifications can be taken as part of it, it applies too.

So I'm gonna assume folks have seen the new SM web exclusive formation. what are the thoughts for countering this with purely Admech? Icarus array interception? Knots if the super durable Kastelan? Vanguard, ranger, kataphron MSU?
*GASP* Could it be. . . .electro priests?

I'm personally leaning toward icarus array with a Kastelan "bodyguard". Of course I'm no mathhammer wiz so I have no idea how it would actually fair or where the sweet spot for the Kastelan to Onager ratio would be.

 Ir0njack wrote:
So I'm gonna assume folks have seen the new SM web exclusive formation. what are the thoughts for countering this with purely Admech? Icarus array interception? Knots if the super durable Kastelan? Vanguard, ranger, kataphron MSU? *GASP*..... E-electro priests?

I'm personally leaning toward icarus array with a Kastelan "bodyguard". Of course I'm no mathhammer wiz so I have no idea how it would actually fair or where the sweet spot for the Kastelan to Onager ratio would be.

I am assuming you are talking about war convocation as you mention both Kastelan and Onager in the same army.

If you go first you can pop the shrouded + stealth canticle the turn before the formation comes in and get 2+ cover saves army wide. You will need to either bubble wrap your important units with the units that matter less (ie destroyers are important and rangers/breachers can be sacrificed). It will be very very hard for a Skyhammer Annihiltion Force to meaningfully damage you with 2+ cover saves (grav devs will average ~2 wounds for 4 grav devs). As long as you kill any locator beacons the assault marines will struggle to make charges and even if they do they will be largely ineffective even in CC as you will get your FnP, saves, and they will have to handle both wounds. GtG if you are not going to get a 2+ cover save as you can always use the fearless canticle to get back up next turn. Otherwise you can use one of the three CC canticles + counter charge with the dragoons/imperial knights to win any combats you are in or reroll to hit to eliminate all the grav devs.

If you go second you should seriously have brought a ADL in an Ad Mech army without allies as you can GtG for a 2+ cover behind it and then use the fearless canticle to get back up the next turn.

If the opponent decides to bring the formation in turn 2 then kill any locator beacons and play with the same overall plan as if you are going first, ie shrouded + stealth FTW.

Kastelans are probably the only unit that is actively bad against the grav dev portion of this formation but they make a good counter charge unit. Most of the ad mech units are not really scared of assault marines in close combat and grav guns are actually not very efficient against most ad mech units as Sv4+, FnP, multiple wounds tends to be the average stats in ad mech infantry. The shrouding + stealth canticle is also huge against an army that absolutely needs to deal a knock out strike in a single turn or it gets shredded. Even the ad mech vehicles are in a bad place for grav devs as they are either too cheap and come with built in cover (dragoons), have interceptor (onager), or cannot be immobilized and 4+ invulnerable (knight).

 Ir0njack wrote:
So I'm gonna assume folks have seen the new SM web exclusive formation. what are the thoughts for countering this with purely Admech? Icarus array interception? Knots if the super durable Kastelan? Vanguard, ranger, kataphron MSU?
*GASP* Could it be. . . .electro priests?

I'm personally leaning toward icarus array with a Kastelan "bodyguard". Of course I'm no mathhammer wiz so I have no idea how it would actually fair or where the sweet spot for the Kastelan to Onager ratio would be.

Well gak. Somehow, servitors can actually manage to go to ground...

...But that formation is only as good as it's arrival. If we can negate that, then we can win. In any case, Imperial armies should never be fighting each other, but if you do find yourself in the unfavorable position, here's what you need to do:

Start the game with 1 unit of at least 4 Castellan Robots, possibly as a Cohort Cybernetica formation, while leaving the rest of the army in reserve. Once the game begins, you must put the Castellan Robots on their Aegis Protocol and equip either the Datasmith or the possible Tech Priest Dominus with either the Anzion's Pseudogenetor Aracana or the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land Arcana.

This will deflect the devastator's fire back onto them, protect the robots from most of the incoming damage, and then either Shred the marines in the assault or, alternatively, survive longer post-combat to prevent the remaining devastators, provided you've bested the assault marines, from finishing the job. You may wish to take the latter considering there will be drop pods nearby and possible who knows what else. Combat may just be safer until your reinforcements arrive.

You could also just bring a foritifcation and hide in it.

I'm pretty sure the web bundle only allows for 2 drop pods to be fielded in that manner, not your entire army, no? There's simply not enough of an army arriving to be scary. That said, Firestorm fortification, Coteaz ally, and two battle cannons. "I've been expecting you" with 2 bat cannons is amusing as all heck.

So played in an 18 man ITC tournament yesterday at the FLGS

Got 3rd over all out of 3 rounds, 2 wins 1 tie with the War Convocation.

Its quite strong, though it may be due to its newness as well. A lot of people dont know what to expect yet.

But I'm happy with its performance