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How about playing Bachanalia?

A maxed unit of Fulgarites with a GK libby that has the book and ML3.

Try to roll for hammerhand, sanctuary, and gate of infinity, then go around stomping people in CC with S7 ID attacks with a 2++ save after wiping a unit.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Your Kastellans putting out 12+ shots and double shot torrent flamers not enough to kill hordes?

Incendine Combustors are Asssault 1, unless you're talking about equipping both Kastelans with Incendines. I usually run 50% Incendine 50% Phosphor for the shoulder weapon.

Wilson wrote:
As mentioned before, war congregation vs new marines with skyhammer

Danke!

 Enigwolf wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Your Kastellans putting out 12+ shots and double shot torrent flamers not enough to kill hordes?

Incendine Combustors are Asssault 1, unless you're talking about equipping both Kastelans with Incendines. I usually run 50% Incendine 50% Phosphor for the shoulder weapon.

The one Protocol lets you fire each shoulder Flamer twice, which is what I think he was referring to.

Requizen wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Your Kastellans putting out 12+ shots and double shot torrent flamers not enough to kill hordes?

Incendine Combustors are Asssault 1, unless you're talking about equipping both Kastelans with Incendines. I usually run 50% Incendine 50% Phosphor for the shoulder weapon.

The one Protocol lets you fire each shoulder Flamer twice, which is what I think he was referring to.

Whoa. I completely forgot that that protocol applies to the flamer too. My bad! (Also, thank you! I'm now salivating at the prospects of my Cohort putting out 4 torrent flamers....)

Finished watching the battle report. Absolutely brutal damage output, as usual, though it looked like there were some dice imbalances as far as luck went in a couple situations.

Nice Paint jobs on those Wilson

Yea the war convocation puts out a crazy amount of firepower

Wilsonnnn! Nice win.

A couple of things I noticed (forgive the armchair quarterbacking/back seat driver nature of these as they are as much suggestions as questions):

1.) Why did you choose to go after the super tuff biker death star with your alpha strike? In a Maelstrom primary mission I feel like you would have been better off eliminating all of your opponent's MSU ob sec capabilities with ease. The biker star seemed like it was ill positioned to be able to accomplish much in his first turn anyway.

2.) With an impending 40 rerolling to hit/wound grav shots why didn't you elect for stealth and shrouded on your first turn? I understand you wanted to do as much damage as possible by twin linking in your turn, but with that canticle you could have cut his damage out put in half. Again, if you would have concentrated on killing everything but the death star, you still would have been in a good position with even more models left. I say targeting the death star is a bad idea mostly out of experience with playing a Plague Drone star regularly. More often than not my unit of Drones has a 3++/4+ FNP and I am always happy inside when my opponent chooses to target it over the support elements in my army.

Good game overall though, and equally good battle report. You guys know your armies, go for the throat, and present it in a well presented package. All things I enjoy

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Wilsonnnn! Nice win.

A couple of things I noticed (forgive the armchair quarterbacking/back seat driver nature of these as they are as much suggestions as questions):

1.) Why did you choose to go after the super tuff biker death star with your alpha strike? In a Maelstrom primary mission I feel like you would have been better off eliminating all of your opponent's MSU ob sec capabilities with ease. The biker star seemed like it was ill positioned to be able to accomplish much in his first turn anyway.

2.) With an impending 40 rerolling to hit/wound grav shots why didn't you elect for stealth and shrouded on your first turn? I understand you wanted to do as much damage as possible by twin linking in your turn, but with that canticle you could have cut his damage out put in half. Again, if you would have concentrated on killing everything but the death star, you still would have been in a good position with even more models left. I say targeting the death star is a bad idea mostly out of experience with playing a Plague Drone star regularly. More often than not my unit of Drones has a 3++/4+ FNP and I am always happy inside when my opponent chooses to target it over the support elements in my army.

Good game overall though, and equally good battle report. You guys know your armies, go for the throat, and present it in a well presented package. All things I enjoy

No forgiveness required bud, I think you are completely right. I totally wasted the grav and plasma squads on those guys but at the time i really couldn't get my head around as to how tough they really were - alas we live and learn!I think Stealth and shrouded would have been a great shout but Grav Kataphrons without the rerolls is really poor shooting - its only ( I say only, forgive me chaos players) 9 hits.

A lot of lessons learned from this game, particularly with the WL traits and target priority vs the new Iron hands. I hope others can learn a little something too and bring the win to the Mechanics!

Nerd, out.

 Wilson wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Wilsonnnn! Nice win.

A couple of things I noticed (forgive the armchair quarterbacking/back seat driver nature of these as they are as much suggestions as questions):

1.) Why did you choose to go after the super tuff biker death star with your alpha strike? In a Maelstrom primary mission I feel like you would have been better off eliminating all of your opponent's MSU ob sec capabilities with ease. The biker star seemed like it was ill positioned to be able to accomplish much in his first turn anyway.

2.) With an impending 40 rerolling to hit/wound grav shots why didn't you elect for stealth and shrouded on your first turn? I understand you wanted to do as much damage as possible by twin linking in your turn, but with that canticle you could have cut his damage out put in half. Again, if you would have concentrated on killing everything but the death star, you still would have been in a good position with even more models left. I say targeting the death star is a bad idea mostly out of experience with playing a Plague Drone star regularly. More often than not my unit of Drones has a 3++/4+ FNP and I am always happy inside when my opponent chooses to target it over the support elements in my army.

Good game overall though, and equally good battle report. You guys know your armies, go for the throat, and present it in a well presented package. All things I enjoy

No forgiveness required bud, I think you are completely right. I totally wasted the grav and plasma squads on those guys but at the time i really couldn't get my head around as to how tough they really were - alas we live and learn!I think Stealth and shrouded would have been a great shout but Grav Kataphrons without the rerolls is really poor shooting - its only ( I say only, forgive me chaos players) 9 hits.

A lot of lessons learned from this game, particularly with the WL traits and target priority vs the new Iron hands. I hope others can learn a little something too and bring the win to the Mechanics!

Nerd, out.

Hmm. Popping Stealth/Shrouded would've negated his damage a lot, true, but the Skyhammer formation chooses to come in on T1 or T2, so if he didn't come in on T1 it would've been wasted. Popping it again on T2 would've spent his re-use a Canticle ability... That said, I would've popped it T1 to either dissuade him from a T1 drop still, getting you more shots on target while still being alive, hopefully. Tough call there.

Side note : We read it that you must declare during deployment when the Skyhammer formation will arrive so, you always know when the rain is coming

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Wilsonnnn! Nice win.

A couple of things I noticed (forgive the armchair quarterbacking/back seat driver nature of these as they are as much suggestions as questions):

1.) Why did you choose to go after the super tuff biker death star with your alpha strike? In a Maelstrom primary mission I feel like you would have been better off eliminating all of your opponent's MSU ob sec capabilities with ease. The biker star seemed like it was ill positioned to be able to accomplish much in his first turn anyway.

2.) With an impending 40 rerolling to hit/wound grav shots why didn't you elect for stealth and shrouded on your first turn? I understand you wanted to do as much damage as possible by twin linking in your turn, but with that canticle you could have cut his damage out put in half. Again, if you would have concentrated on killing everything but the death star, you still would have been in a good position with even more models left. I say targeting the death star is a bad idea mostly out of experience with playing a Plague Drone star regularly. More often than not my unit of Drones has a 3++/4+ FNP and I am always happy inside when my opponent chooses to target it over the support elements in my army.

Good game overall though, and equally good battle report. You guys know your armies, go for the throat, and present it in a well presented package. All things I enjoy

No forgiveness required bud, I think you are completely right. I totally wasted the grav and plasma squads on those guys but at the time i really couldn't get my head around as to how tough they really were - alas we live and learn!I think Stealth and shrouded would have been a great shout but Grav Kataphrons without the rerolls is really poor shooting - its only ( I say only, forgive me chaos players) 9 hits.

A lot of lessons learned from this game, particularly with the WL traits and target priority vs the new Iron hands. I hope others can learn a little something too and bring the win to the Mechanics!

Nerd, out.

Hmm. Popping Stealth/Shrouded would've negated his damage a lot, true, but the Skyhammer formation chooses to come in on T1 or T2, so if he didn't come in on T1 it would've been wasted. Popping it again on T2 would've spent his re-use a Canticle ability... That said, I would've popped it T1 to either dissuade him from a T1 drop still, getting you more shots on target while still being alive, hopefully. Tough call there.

The Skyhammer Formation has to declare during deployment whether it will arrive turn 1 or 2 so he would have know when it was coming down. That's the only saving grace against a formation that powerful in my opinion.

@Wilson: Now that you say it, I can see how you thought it was possible to neuter his star a little more than you did. When I'm thinking about plague drones, they are all 3W models so lessening its damage output is a little harder. Each wound you do to the bikes knocks off a grav gun which helps. Now you know, and that's why we practice, no?

Again assuming you target his MSU scoring, 9 hits from the Kataphrons is going to do 6W to bikes which *should* polish off his 3 man biker units while jinking. Not much room for bad dice, but there is room for good dice

Overall, seems like a really strong list. Good luck with it!

 Wilson wrote:
Side note : We read it that you must declare during deployment when the Skyhammer formation will arrive so, you always know when the rain is coming

That is so much better.

Deshkar wrote:
In a War Convocation, allied taxipods are one of the stronger options. Are there any there allied combination that might beat or at least match up with having the taxis? I was thinking of including a librarius conclave for prescience/perfect timing on kataphrons and maybe if necc, invisibility on the IK to tie up any deathstar.

it's very powerful but then you are taking 4 different sources of models and you are going above 2000 points likely. ,

The war concovation really doesnt benefit that much from the taxipods. It only has 1 squad of vanguard.

Vanguard in taxipods are GREAT, really they are the competitive other option besides the war convocation. If you are playing 2500+ points, take both and combine them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TuddFudders wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
In a War Convocation, allied taxipods are one of the stronger options. Are there any there allied combination that might beat or at least match up with having the taxis? I was thinking of including a librarius conclave for prescience/perfect timing on kataphrons and maybe if necc, invisibility on the IK to tie up any deathstar.

I haven't played with my force yet (Still being painted), but my theories have so far been these:

1. Drop pod taxi for Kataphrons and Vanguard.

2. Any fortification with CM detachment, mostly the Plasma Obliterator (loses get hots, gets canticles, etc).

3. Culexus/Callidus Assassins to break up deathstars or distract the enemy without needing to invest in a crap ton of points on psykers. Throw in a Coteaz if needed.

why put the Kataphrons in Pods? Just to ensure they get to shoot first turn? With a 30" range and 6" move you would be better starting them on the table in cover or behind LOS and moving them out first turn. They can reach most of the board.

TuddFudders wrote:

4. Taking a separate Cohort of Kastellans formation with second Dominus to get IWND relic and cognis on them creating a near unkillable unit.

you cannot put a second dominus in the unit. ICs cannot join units with MCs in them. You can put a second relic on one of the datasmiths, but they are more squishy than dominuses if anyone has anything with precision shots and AP2 or mass wounds

He mentioned Cohort, which would imply the 2 kastelan mantiples with a tech priest, which is where hes getting his 2nd tech priest from, which is perfectly legal

One of the big this is that Kataphrons are slow, pods help that and makes for a pretty nasty alpha strike either way

Pods can fit in 1850 lists and helps, and and the advise you're giving saying "There are other options" isnt helpful when hes specifcally trying to use the war convocation.

I'm curious to see how most TOs react to the War Convocation, since the typical "3 sources/detachments" would be confusing in this instance, as the whole formation is one detachment of 3 sources...

As far as the ITC is concerned, they're allowing it

The rescriction is purely how many formations/detatchmnets and no duplicates

Since the Convocation is technically one formation, if you have the points you can have 3+ sources

I really like the way you guys did the battle report. Quick, succinct. I don't have 3 hours to watch a couple of guys jaw-jack and roll dice. Nicely done. Subscribed to your channel. Would have been nice to see the game ending roll on camera though...

Been skimming so aplogies if it's been covered, with regard to the admech war convocation, is the knight crusader something that would mesh well as a choice?

Only just started putting some admech together as I've had overtime money burning a hole in my pocket and picked up the new knight kit today, and aesthetically it's my top choice. Just not sure if the loss of D attacks is worth the high points cost when you're already stretched with the convocation.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:
Been skimming so aplogies if it's been covered, with regard to the admech war convocation, is the knight crusader something that would mesh well as a choice?

Only just started putting some admech together as I've had overtime money burning a hole in my pocket and picked up the new knight kit today, and aesthetically it's my top choice. Just not sure if the loss of D attacks is worth the high points cost when you're already stretched with the convocation.

The loss of D attacks only matters if you're going up against other Knight-esque units or LoWs. Otherwise the second main weapon provides more utility in an army that's already really shooty. Just remember to play it super aggressively - you still easily wipe most units in close combat between being a super-heavy walker and stomps. Also if you decide to be cheesy with the rules, remember that your ranged weapons have strikedown (unless this has since been remedied in 7th?)

Otherwise, if you're points starved, go with the Warden.

It already has S10/AP2 attacks. You have fleshbane for dealing with GMCs, and haywire for dealing with knights, so moar dakka is a fine choice.

Most other Superheavies or Gargantuans win or go even against a Knight with the D Chainsword anyway, might as well take more gun.

More and more Skitarii and Cult Mech batreps are starting to come out of the woodwork onto youtube. Still have yet to see one with the War Convocation besides FLG's with Reecius.

 ultimentra wrote:
More and more Skitarii and Cult Mech batreps are starting to come out of the woodwork onto youtube. Still have yet to see one with the War Convocation besides FLG's with Reecius.

Could be people still want friends.

Theres one posted on this very page

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Theres one posted on this very page

Yeah, I think it was Wilson's?

Getting back into 40k since briefly playing almost ten years ago. The skitarii caught my eye and I'm currently building up a set of the rangers/vanguard. However, I'm not totally sure how I should build these.

It seems like vanguard are preferred over rangers, so building them with the radium carbines seems to be the first order.

Secondly, I'm not totally sure what squad size or additional weapons are optimal. I'm planning to build towards a 1500pt list with a skitarii maniple consisting of a various assortment of vanguard, 4 ballistari, 2 dragoons, along with a cohort cybernetic. So, I'd want the vanguard to supplement the ballistari, dragoons, and robots.

Without running lascannons on the ballistari, it seems that 5 vanguard +2 arc rifle would help against high AV. I've heard that the plasma cavaliers are solid, but I'm not entirely sold on the 30 point cost being attached to a pretty squishy unit. Omnispex seems mandatory.

I was thinking of having a 10 man with 3 plasma cavaliers with omni (larger squad to provide more cushion for expensive weapons), along with a couple 5 man squads with 2 arc rifles and omni. Or, the if the the plasma isn't worth it, then just have 4x5 Vanguard with 2 arc rifles and omni.

Or, I'm just thinking of running them naked expect for omnispex, and giving lascannons to the ballistari to take care of high AV.

 nerdbot wrote:
Getting back into 40k since briefly playing almost ten years ago. The skitarii caught my eye and I'm currently building up a set of the rangers/vanguard. However, I'm not totally sure how I should build these.

It seems like vanguard are preferred over rangers, so building them with the radium carbines seems to be the first order.

Secondly, I'm not totally sure what squad size or additional weapons are optimal. I'm planning to build towards a 1500pt list with a skitarii maniple consisting of a various assortment of vanguard, 4 ballistari, 2 dragoons, along with a cohort cybernetic. So, I'd want the vanguard to supplement the ballistari, dragoons, and robots.

Without running lascannons on the ballistari, it seems that 5 vanguard +2 arc rifle would help against high AV. I've heard that the plasma cavaliers are solid, but I'm not entirely sold on the 30 point cost being attached to a pretty squishy unit. Omnispex seems mandatory.

I was thinking of having a 10 man with 3 plasma cavaliers with omni (larger squad to provide more cushion for expensive weapons), along with a couple 5 man squads with 2 arc rifles and omni. Or, the if the the plasma isn't worth it, then just have 4x5 Vanguard with 2 arc rifles and omni.

Or, I'm just thinking of running them naked expect for omnispex, and giving lascannons to the ballistari to take care of high AV.

If you're going to run robots, unless you're using the formation (which mind, is a huge points sink), you'll need troops choices. Take two squads of Kataphrons for 36 long-ranged grav shots. That'll give you enough anti-tank firepower. Plasma calivers will fry your own squad without the Convocation's ignore gets hot. I'm not a fan of putting my biggest anti-tank weapons on squishy platforms. Ballistarii lack the constant 5+ cover the Dragoons have, which makes me nervous. They remind me of running my own Elysian Tauros Venator squads which each had a TL Lascannon and 2 HK missiles per vehicle (3 a squad), but I had those with camo netting sitting in ruins for 3+ cover, so they were a fair bit more survivable. Those things were squishy as hell. If an opponent so much as looked at it, the vehicle squad disappeared.

 Enigwolf wrote:

If you're going to run robots, unless you're using the formation (which mind, is a huge points sink), you'll need troops choices. Take two squads of Kataphrons for 36 long-ranged grav shots. That'll give you enough anti-tank firepower. Plasma calivers will fry your own squad without the Convocation's ignore gets hot. I'm not a fan of putting my biggest anti-tank weapons on squishy platforms. Ballistarii lack the constant 5+ cover the Dragoons have, which makes me nervous. They remind me of running my own Elysian Tauros Venator squads which each had a TL Lascannon and 2 HK missiles per vehicle (3 a squad), but I had those with camo netting sitting in ruins for 3+ cover, so they were a fair bit more survivable. Those things were squishy as hell. If an opponent so much as looked at it, the vehicle squad disappeared.

I was planning to run the cohort cybernetica formation. The squad of three cavalier would probably have the alpha as the warlord for the re-rolls of preferred enemy. Although just ditching the cavaliers allows me to run the dominus as my warlord -- a far more durable choice. Yea, it seems like the lascannons on the ballistari is a bit risky, so maybe i'll go with the arc rifles route unless I decide to not go with the robot formation and take the kataphrons.

Balistarii are bad. Dragoons are far better, as you have plently of ranged AV (Arc Rifle, Heavy Arc Rifle, Neutron Laser) and plently of anti-MC (Radium weapons, Plasma Caliver, Transuranic Arquebus) already.

 Verviedi wrote:
Balistarii are bad. Dragoons are far better, as you have plently of ranged AV (Arc Rifle, Heavy Arc Rifle, Neutron Laser) and plently of anti-MC (Radium weapons, Plasma Caliver, Transuranic Arquebus) already.

Amen. Ballerstarii suck for their cost. (£$ & pts!) avoid with caution.

Question and I think it is a silly one- can you restore a wound on a Dominus using the master of the machines special rule if it is locked in combat?