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 mikhaila wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.

I have no idea where you are getting your info from that sales went up from this.

Personally, i've seen sales drop in half on new releases at my stores, or worse. Lack of advertising will do that. Stores don't do launch parties anymore, or megabattles, painting events, etc to celebrate new releases. How can we? There's no time.

Meanwhile, people are getting excited and talking about all the other games coming out, when they stumble across something new by GW. A lack of excitement = less sales.

No one I've talked to at GW in the US even hints that sales have gone up on new products. Hell, my sales rep can't even tell me anything about the Eldar Codex except price. He won't see it until it comes out. Silly way to run a business.

Out of curiosity is the same thing happening to 40k or are you just referring to WFB? If new 40k releases are dropping by 50% or worse in the US then THAT is scary.

Not as bad as WFB, but down by a good chunk. I've still got about 70% of 40k on my shelf, vs about 30% of WFB. GW just keeps taking away WFB kits and making them direct only. Not as bad with 40k. The huge problem with selling GW right now is that Nobody Cares, and No Excitement about new product. The main reason for this: No one even knows new stuff came out. Even if i have a clue about what is coming out from rumor threads or leaks, i can't advertise until GW posts up pre-orders. How many of the Assassin game can i sell when i get 1 weekend to talk about it before ordering? I'll have people coming in a month from now saying "WTF Skitarrie/WTF Edar???"

Somehow GW thinks the rules of advertising and sales dont affect them. Meanwhile i have players extremely excited about other games, and can't wait for them to come out. I sold more of the latest FOW book than I did the Eldar Codex during the first weekend they were out. The FOW players knew the book was coming, had pre-orders in, and were excited about new German tanks with infrared scopes and nightfighting rules. (Yes, half the 40k armies don't have night goggles, but the germans got them in '44. )

I agree with you. GW should finish producing their next release, let us see pictures of it, then make it available for general release like FOW does. That way seeing it on the Internets for several months generates excitement around the product while they build up an adequate stockpile of the product to meet general demand on day 1. Its better than half -arsing it by getting the product to market faster. I believe this would be a much better strategy and would work better for GW in the long term rather than them building short term profits to pay dividends to Kirby! When the people who buy your product don't have enough time to create/speculate rumors about a product and you've released it! I'm upset that we can't get our wish listing input into you! For shame GW! For shame!

I don't think the secrecy has anything to do with getting it to market faster. They just think that it makes it sell better.

 warboss wrote:
I don't think the secrecy has anything to do with getting it to market faster. They just think that it makes it sell better.

Yeah, they don't want to give you time to think about buying or weighing your options.

It's too bad that there's no way to research your market, find out what would work best. What would you even call that?

Like Rick Priestly said, GW is no longer in the business of making games. They make "collectibles". As such, they've adopted that marketing mentality. Just look at the amount of "limited" releases they're doing. Fast cash. That's where their heads are at.

 Guildsman wrote:
It's too bad that there's no way to research your market, find out what would work best. What would you even call that?

Humility.

 Bull0 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.

I have no idea where you are getting your info from that sales went up from this.

Personally, i've seen sales drop in half on new releases at my stores, or worse. Lack of advertising will do that. Stores don't do launch parties anymore, or megabattles, painting events, etc to celebrate new releases. How can we? There's no time.

Meanwhile, people are getting excited and talking about all the other games coming out, when they stumble across something new by GW. A lack of excitement = less sales.

No one I've talked to at GW in the US even hints that sales have gone up on new products. Hell, my sales rep can't even tell me anything about the Eldar Codex except price. He won't see it until it comes out. Silly way to run a business.

Out of curiosity is the same thing happening to 40k or are you just referring to WFB? If new 40k releases are dropping by 50% or worse in the US then THAT is scary.

Not as bad as WFB, but down by a good chunk. I've still got about 70% of 40k on my shelf, vs about 30% of WFB. GW just keeps taking away WFB kits and making them direct only. Not as bad with 40k. The huge problem with selling GW right now is that Nobody Cares, and No Excitement about new product. The main reason for this: No one even knows new stuff came out. Even if i have a clue about what is coming out from rumor threads or leaks, i can't advertise until GW posts up pre-orders. How many of the Assassin game can i sell when i get 1 weekend to talk about it before ordering? I'll have people coming in a month from now saying "WTF Skitarrie/WTF Edar???"

Somehow GW thinks the rules of advertising and sales dont affect them. Meanwhile i have players extremely excited about other games, and can't wait for them to come out. I sold more of the latest FOW book than I did the Eldar Codex during the first weekend they were out. The FOW players knew the book was coming, had pre-orders in, and were excited about new German tanks with infrared scopes and nightfighting rules. (Yes, half the 40k armies don't have night goggles, but the germans got them in '44. )

That would make sense though, since it was also part of the campaign to undermine the trade partners. Your sales != GW's direct sales and I expect they're not closely related

So you think that the extra sales through direct would compensate for those that they are losing through independent stores? That's an interesting thought, but you have to think that a lot of potential customers might then look at other games on the shelves, or at the very least just not purchase anything.

You have to think that the lack of marketing and news before release is as much a pain for the guys working in the GW stores as it is for the independents. I really, really can't understand the logic behind it. It's like the fact that GW weren't present at Salute the previous weekend, one of the biggest wargaming conventions in Europe (if not the world). Just this massive, massive event for the industry and the biggest player in the sci-fi/fantasy game isn't there. Their only presence was what seemed like a 1ft x 4ft stall for Forgeworld, with a couple of guys struggling with a queue. They should have a fething massive, 100ft area with a giant prosthetic demon head suspended in the air over it (breathing fire), and guys dressed up as Eldar and Chaos Cultists walking about. I am genuinely baffled as to why they don't do this, almost enough to write a letter to them to find out why (if I actually gave a damn! )

I have yet to actually read a solid explanation for either the 'no marketing' thing, or the lack of official presence at wargaming conventions. Would be interested to read if anyone does want to take a crack at it!

Nocturnus wrote:
Like Rick Priestly said, GW is no longer in the business of making games. They make "collectibles". As such, they've adopted that marketing mentality.

Except that the "collectibles" market lets collectors know way ahead of time what's coming up.

There were probably 20 stands with GW product on it, so a stand with full RRP isn't much of an addition if they are not previewing anything.

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

 Guildsman wrote:
It's too bad that there's no way to research your market, find out what would work best. What would you even call that?

Exalted. Well played.

 notprop wrote:
There were probably 20 stands with GW product on it, so a stand with full RRP isn't much of an addition if they are not previewing anything.

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

Nothing stopping them bringing some of the thousand or so online only items along (which they don't even do at Games Day), or bring some authors for signings or something.

 notprop wrote:
I guess they always felt they had it covered?

Then they'd be even more foolish than they're usually thought to be.

 notprop wrote:
There were probably 20 stands with GW product on it, so a stand with full RRP isn't much of an addition if they are not previewing anything.

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

Firstly mate, you're British, put an 's' on the end of that 'product' !

Salute is about a lot more than just selling stuff though isn't it. Look at what the likes of Hawk Wargames, Warlord and Mantic were doing, and those guys run on the same amount of money that GW spend on bog roll for a year. They could have had some truly mental demo games, previews of new releases, the design staff to chat to, displays of artwork (I could go on!) Make a real buzz about what they are doing, instead all of the atmosphere, talk and excitement is about other games.

As someone who hasn't been to Games Day in probably a decade or so would have been nice to have an official GW presence at shows like Salute, and lots of others for that matter, as for the more casual GW fan it hasn't sounded like GD has been worth the price of admission over recent years.

They used to have big spoilers for Games Day and I bought metal slaves(skaven) there months before they were released. I loved that it made Games Day worth it.

Games Workshop secrecy thing was kinda related to New Line but it only regarded their IP if I understand. And GW just took it to heart.

 Guildsman wrote:
It's too bad that there's no way to research your market, find out what would work best. What would you even call that?

Otiose. You'd call it otiose.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Why is that every new little bit of info we hear is more depressing than the previous...

And also more confusing? Each batch of rumors just seem to confirm that I don't understand what the feth is going on with a game I've spent 20 years playing.

But this Mordheim league my club is starting up, I'm totally on top of that

- Salvage

THIS.... 100X THIS!!!

Make my 9th edition Mordhiem.

 notprop wrote:

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

So with Games Day dead and gone what's their excuse this year?

 jonolikespie wrote:

 notprop wrote:

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

So with Games Day dead and gone what's their excuse this year?

It's not gone, it's just the games that have gone. It's now WarhammerFest.

I just hope my 20+ year of WHFB does not come to an end this year...
Partly because i still have a few armies to paint and without game, there is hardly a reason anymore.

I do try to follow GW rumours, but if you look at Salute 2015, other companies actually show something and get free exposure on youtube, facebook etc. from bloggers and gamers.
For instance:
I just pre-ordered HALO: Fleet battles and i am already looking forward to Dropfleet Commander (the ships, not the game ;-)

In regard to WHFB, a game i know since 25 years, i have not heard or read 1 bit of information to get me inspired, interested or anything really...

40k does well enough though and by the time GW comes with WHFB info, i might have no budget left to even participate.

 notprop wrote:
There were probably 20 stands with GW product on it, so a stand with full RRP isn't much of an addition if they are not previewing anything.

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

They've been at Salute plenty of times in the past, but it consisted of two blokes sitting at a stall trying to flog plastic boxes whilst everyone around them sold the same at 10% off. Theres been steadily less and less GW kits for sale at Salute over the last decade anyway, by my reckoning. Seem to remember they packed up early and left a few years ago as there was so little business coming their way. Lovely display tables, but well, seen it all before and the "don't show anything" attitude of the company doesn't create much sizzle in a hall full of interesting things.

Now, if they had been whoring WFB 9th edition and had previews - people would have been aaaallll over that, wouldn't they? It'd probably have been the reveal of the event.

Quite.


Still somewhat annoyed that Black Library don't make an appearance there anymore though.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Lord Scythican wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol

Jezz....how many ogres do you need? Are you trying to catch them all?

Well right now this month it was firebelly 4boxes of iron guts 4 boxes of lead belchers 3 butchers, and 2 stonehorns. I got lots of ogres and making a hole board for them .... Then a nagash board

Ahh gotcha. I thought you were buying $1000 worth of only ogres every month!

Herzlos wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 notprop wrote:

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

So with Games Day dead and gone what's their excuse this year?

It's not gone, it's just the games that have gone. It's now WarhammerFest.

Hahaha no it's dead it was dying for years.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 notprop wrote:
There were probably 20 stands with GW product on it, so a stand with full RRP isn't much of an addition if they are not previewing anything.

Also for practically as long as there has been a Salute the was a GW games Day. I guess they always felt they had it covered?

They've been at Salute plenty of times in the past, but it consisted of two blokes sitting at a stall trying to flog plastic boxes whilst everyone around them sold the same at 10% off. Theres been steadily less and less GW kits for sale at Salute over the last decade anyway, by my reckoning. Seem to remember they packed up early and left a few years ago as there was so little business coming their way. Lovely display tables, but well, seen it all before and the "don't show anything" attitude of the company doesn't create much sizzle in a hall full of interesting things.

Now, if they had been whoring WFB 9th edition and had previews - people would have been aaaallll over that, wouldn't they? It'd probably have been the reveal of the event.

Also noticed something that did not happen in past, at least not to this extent... went to wayland to check some 40k stuff at the middle of the show around 11ish did not get anything because there was other more cool bits on the other shelves... returned to the same stand at the end of the day for a last check on 40k stuff and errr the shelves looked untouched and most was still there... mind this was 40k not WFB. Thats just weird.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Also noticed something that did not happen in past, at least not to this extent... went to wayland to check some 40k stuff at the middle of the show around 11ish did not get anything because there was other more cool bits on the other shelves... returned to the same stand at the end of the day for a last check on 40k stuff and errr the shelves looked untouched and most was still there... mind this was 40k not WFB. Thats just weird.

GW stuff has been getting less and less popular at the shows I've been to as well. I don't know if it's because people are using the opportunity to buy new stuff (and the GW stuff you get at shows is the same GW stuff you get online or in your FLGS), or if there's just less interest in GW stuff in general. Shows up here have gone from maybe 50% of stalls with GW to maybe 20-25% and the boxes don't seem to be moving.

Speaking from my own experiences, whenever I attend some sort of show or convention, I tend to be looking for everything that I can't get my hands on regularly.

I'd imagine it's a similar situation at Salute. Why travel all that distance when you can get the very same thing either online or at whatever stores you frequent, and probably cheaper as well?

Half the fun (for me at least) in going to shows like this is seeing what all the little guys are up to.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Speaking from my own experiences, whenever I attend some sort of show or convention, I tend to be looking for everything that I can't get my hands on regularly.

I'd imagine it's a similar situation at Salute. Why travel all that distance when you can get the very same thing either online or at whatever stores you frequent, and probably cheaper as well?

Half the fun (for me at least) in going to shows like this is seeing what all the little guys are up to.

That's a perfectly valid reason for interest in GW products to be falling at conventions but it seems to be paralleling a decline in interest in FLGS and gaming groups as well.

GW aren't giving us anything to get excited about so they are losing business to those who are, simple as that. Take this thread for example, we have people mentioning Halo and Dropzone fleet games and for the last few pages barely mentioned WHFB 9th ed because for some reason after blowing up the world they think they can tell us literally nothing about what's next for what, two months?

In my FLGS the reason for less interest in GW products is more financial than anything else. It's expensive to get into and to keep up with, so people quit or don't even start.

In general the interest in other wargames is getting less too with a few people buying and trying new games or armies (including GW products) but most others sticking to 1 or 2 games, mostly X-Wing, FoW or 40k.

I go with the ubiquity of Gw stuff generally. I don't need to get GW stuff at the same price at Salute as I could get it for any day of the week.

Every other companies product(s - added for Pacific!) there was at show discount prices for the most part, even FW. So those are the ranges you are going to look for.

Is this just a "discuss GW's general decline" thread now? Can we lock it until something new about WFB 9th emerges, maybe?