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GW went and...stole borrowed was inspired by...came up with another great idea all on their own?!?

All kidding aside, I wish they'd just release more information already!

 agnosto wrote:
Sounds like an old Weiss and Hickman book about traveling from one bubble world to the next.....the death gate cycle.

...except without the awesome story present in said book series.

 mikhaila wrote:

-Ages of Sigmar is a new system, not necessarily WFB 8.5 or 9.0

-Story advances after the events in Endtimes.

-All current models will be usable. But it's a new system, so how good/bad something was in 8th isn't an indication of how it will perform in AoS.

-Age of Sigmar is not a boardgame, is not an intro game to something larger. It's the main event.

guh...
why do i feel like i just witnessed the end of something i have been doing for over 20 years...
I hope this new system is good, but i played warhammer because it was a larger scale game...

we'll see...i hate suspense...

Excited to see a skirmish game, but disappointed to see fantasy burn on a pyre to do it....

Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

 dan2026 wrote:
Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

Well, a big part of the pull of GW's games are their ubiquity. People like investing in a game they feel they will have an easy time finding opponents for (in addition to liking the rules/models/fluff). Playing earlier editions erodes a lot of that opportunity to find gaming partners if you're not in a dedicated group.

 Accolade wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

Well, a big part of the pull of GW's games are their ubiquity. People like investing in a game they feel they will have an easy time finding opponents for (in addition to liking the rules/models/fluff). Playing earlier editions erodes a lot of that opportunity to find gaming partners if you're not in a dedicated group.

Can't be stressed enough as a selling point.
If you've never tried to get a Brand X game started somewhere, esp. if you are NOT a member of an established gaming group, you cannot appreciate how much value that adds to a game.

I have no problem with GW having smaller game options to encourage people to start WFB. I've played in slow-grow leagues that started at 500 points and went up to 2500, and I've played in massive 10,000 point-plus games.

While the game does function from 500 to 1000 points and above 4000 points... it does not function very well. Below 500? Forget it. The optimal zone for 8th edition is between 2000 and 3000 points.

A game that could be easily scaled from 100 points to 13,000 points would be wonderful.

As far as playing Warmahordes instead of skirmish WFB.... no thanks. I'm not terribly fond of skirmish to begin with; I'm not terribly fond of steampunk to begin with - especially games where EVERYTHING is steampunk, instead of a small number of steampunk units in a small number of factions. I'm not terribly fond of the warmahorde aesthetic, and I'm not buying all the accessories needed to play the bloody game either - unit cards, card sleeves, dry-erase markers, hoops, markers, yadda yadda YADDA yadda yadda. If you find it fun, more power to you. It's not my cup of tea.

I AM terribly fond of using large units maneuvering AS UNITS, instead of as loose mobs.

I'll play WFB skirmish not because I WANT to play WFB skirmish, but to introduce other players to the game, and inspire them to build up to full army size, and get them to WANT to participate in the grandeur of the larger battles...

instead of endless tiny little skirmishes.

 agnosto wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
D&D had steampunk ratmen? Don't remember those.

I remember the Nezumi and were-rats, but I don't remember early D&D having steampunk until Spell Jammer (which wasn't really STEAMpunk) or Eberron (which doesn't really have rat-men).

Who am I forgetting?

Spell Jammer not steampunk? Gallions in space. Another steampunk reference for D&D, though later than Skaven was Planescape.

Ever read "Swords of Lankhmar?", 1968. Not steampunk per se but intelligent rats, under-city...etc.

Geez, I'm old.

So, steam punk and wererats have existed in other places; I'm not sure if anyone else has put them together but it's not like it's difficult to add A to B in any combination. Actually, steampunk Ogres sounds really cool but then I guess they kind of have that ....

As for other, early influences to the creation of Skaven, look into Raxivort, the patron god of xvarts and wererats...his ethos will probably strike a chord with any Skaven fans and was written by Gary Gygax, I want to say I read about it in a Dragon Magazine...waaaaaaay back. (man, I AM old.)

I capped STEAM for a reason Spelljammer wasn't exactly steampunk, since it didn't rely on the overly complex machines with a boiler somewhere. And yeah, I specifically didn't mention Planescape (which at least had steampunkish things in the Modrons) because it came so late in the AD&D life cycle. Good times.

And yeah, I even mentioned were-rats for D&D, and there have been plenty of "ratmen" races (they usually get lumped under 'nezumi'; good ole' kara-tur). But being "ratmen" really isn't the same as being skaven. I'll check into Raxivort though.

privateer4hire wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

Well, a big part of the pull of GW's games are their ubiquity. People like investing in a game they feel they will have an easy time finding opponents for (in addition to liking the rules/models/fluff). Playing earlier editions erodes a lot of that opportunity to find gaming partners if you're not in a dedicated group.

Can't be stressed enough as a selling point.
If you've never tried to get a Brand X game started somewhere, esp. if you are NOT a member of an established gaming group, you cannot appreciate how much value that adds to a game.

Exactly!

I'm surprised at how often this tired ol' chestnut gets dragged out during...times like these.

Maybe a lot of people have really nice gaming groups though?

 Alpharius wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

Well, a big part of the pull of GW's games are their ubiquity. People like investing in a game they feel they will have an easy time finding opponents for (in addition to liking the rules/models/fluff). Playing earlier editions erodes a lot of that opportunity to find gaming partners if you're not in a dedicated group.

Can't be stressed enough as a selling point.
If you've never tried to get a Brand X game started somewhere, esp. if you are NOT a member of an established gaming group, you cannot appreciate how much value that adds to a game.

Exactly!

I'm surprised at how often this tired ol' chestnut gets dragged out during...times like these.

Maybe a lot of people have really nice gaming groups though?

I think people who push Brand X gaming above all else and everything be damned either must have really nice gaming groups (or at least one solid opponent who is flexible in what they play) or are masochists

If GW ever actually actively marketed, their built-in community should be a centerpiece of their message.
"Not only is our stuff cooler than Brand X, you can actually find willing players that you don't have to browbeat into playing"

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Am I allowed to point out that Warmachine / Hordes has all of those things, plus more stuff SkirmishHammer people keep one-upping? As well as tighter rules than I believe GW capable of creating? Yes, yes, you don' t like the models and/or aesthetic. Rebuttal: 1) Use models you do like? 2) Having seen the art for AoS, the last redux of the Empire and the popularity of Skaven, can you deny that The Dub isn't cashing in on the same steampunk wagon?

Anyway, I'll return to simmering in the background.

- Salvage

I can't speak for those other guys, but I tried Warmachine. Didn't care for it - not the rules, not the aesthetic.. Still have my painted Cyngar starter and a few additional units. Finding it hard to sell them off since I painted them myself. LOL.

There's been a little 'steam punk' feel to WHFB for quite awhile, even before WM existed. Not nearly to the degree that Warmachine, Malifaux, etc, exhibit, of course.

 Mort wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Am I allowed to point out that Warmachine / Hordes has all of those things, plus more stuff SkirmishHammer people keep one-upping? As well as tighter rules than I believe GW capable of creating? Yes, yes, you don' t like the models and/or aesthetic. Rebuttal: 1) Use models you do like? 2) Having seen the art for AoS, the last redux of the Empire and the popularity of Skaven, can you deny that The Dub isn't cashing in on the same steampunk wagon?

Anyway, I'll return to simmering in the background.

- Salvage

I can't speak for those other guys, but I tried Warmachine. Didn't care for it - not the rules, not the aesthetic.. Still have my painted Cyngar starter and a few additional units. Finding it hard to sell them off since I painted them myself. LOL.

There's been a little 'steam punk' feel to WHFB for quite awhile, even before WM existed. Not nearly to the degree that Warmachine, Malifaux, etc, exhibit, of course.

Well, no offense but painted models in general tend to not be worth much unless you're a prodigious painter, and even then it tends to be around the cost of a new copy of the kit.

 Accolade wrote:


Well, no offense but painted models in general tend to not be worth much unless you're a prodigious painter, and even then it tends to be around the cost of a new copy of the kit.

Oh, no offense taken! I just meant... I am such a -slow- painter that I become quite attached to just about everything I paint.... even if my painting is 'average' at best! I just look at those WM models and think, "I spent XX number of hours painting them... I can't SELL them!". LOL.

I just hope GW pulls something super-cool out of their hat - a system that scales from 20ish models up to the mass-battles we're used to. It's doable, though most folks don't seem to have faith that GW can do it. I just hope they can, because I see value in catering to skirmish-players as well as mass-battles players, and if you can do it at the same time, more power to you!

We will hopefully see in about a month's time!

Does anyone know if current codex books will still be used?

 Yodhrin wrote:
You do get that a setting, by its very nature, is static, right? It's not supposed to advance, it's supposed to exist.

This is a meme created by dakka dakka to justify the stagnation of 40k's narrative. You will never find a definition for "setting" in which it's stated that it by design has a static narrative.

 mikhaila wrote:
-They don't have another version of WFB coming out.

To be fair, if there was a full 9th Ed coming out after this, they wouldn't've told you. They don't tell anyone if they don't have to, at least not until the last possible second.

40KNobz11 wrote:
Does anyone know if current codex books will still be used?

They got pulled from the shelves, so probably not. The assumption is a "ravening hordes" type model.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
You do get that a setting, by its very nature, is static, right? It's not supposed to advance, it's supposed to exist.

That's an arbitrary rule if I ever saw one. Star Wars is not a setting? Star Trek? Middle-Earth?

Come on.

No, they're not settings, they're stories. Look at Star Wars - decades of world building and story telling in the EU wiped out in a heartbeat by diktat of the new owners, because they want to write the story themselves and not have to deal with existing material. You could argue that the "historical" periods of Star Trek are settings, since they're static, but again, when the existing material became inconvenient to the storytelling the company that owns the IP wanted to do; bye-bye existing world.

Static doesn't have to mean "nothing happens, ever", but for something to serve as a setting the things which do happen cannot fundamentally change what it is, and the things that have happened have to stay happened. It's about the scale of events. You cannot literally blow up the world and claim you're still selling a setting, because without any of the things that made up the setting you're just selling a brand-name and a storyline. If people want to play that, more power to them, but it's not for me, and I just can't fathom people who take this "I love Warhammer so much I'm super-excited that they've eliminated all the things that made up Warhammer!" line, it just makes no sense to me personally.

As for the other predictable "hurr hurr GW aren't stealing your books hurr" replies - ya don't say. They won't be making any more of them though will they, which is the point; I was interested in the Warhammer World, chiefly the Old World. I was interested in reading more stories based in that setting, stories about Witch Hunters and Troll Slayers, about Ratmen in the sewers beneath Altdorf, about the Marienburg City Watch, about raiding tombs in Khemri or barrows in the Border Princes, about Kislevites and Estalians and Tileans and Bretonnians, etc etc etc. If Age of Sigmar follows on from the End Times, which the rumours presently suggest it does, all of those hooks, those places and peoples and races, they're all gone, and there won't be any more tales of the Old World or campaign books or graphic novels. Not featuring the world I spent twenty-odd years immersed in, mostly enjoying. Again, if that clean slate is something you find appealing, bon appetit, but don't expect fans of the existing material to be happy about it.

 dan2026 wrote:
Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

Whenever this comes up, it's usually a UK gamer stating it. I think there's a cultural difference here in that gaming clubs aren't the norm in the US as they appear to be in the UK so if you're going to play a game, it's more than likely a pick-up or scheduled game at a FLGS which would rather you buy the new rules edition to use their space than an older edition that will encourage you to never buy new material or models since they won't exist in that old edition.

If all you're ever going to do is play at home or with a set circle of friends in a club setting, playing old rules is fine but that's not the norm over here.

Does this WHFB rebirth from nothing storyline sound familiar to anyone else?

Are you saying GW will be having Limahl singing Sigmar's new theme song?

Why not? If you're going to steal an idea, might as well steal all of it.

40KNobz11 wrote:
Does anyone know if current codex books will still be used?

If you mean are Army books from WHB8th, usable for Age of Sigmar, i'm pretty sure the answer is a no.

GW would have left the army books on sale if they were still going to be valid.

Oh that GW! Invalidating

Every.

Single.

Thing that I've purchased from them since 2011:

5th ed 40k
6th ed 40k
Space Wolves Codex
Space Marine Codex (2, I didn't buy the one before this 7th ed version)
Eldar Codex
7th ed Lizardmen Army book
8th Ed Lizardmen, WoC and VC Army books.

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of steampunk to begin with - especially games where EVERYTHING is steampunk, instead of a small number of steampunk units in a small number of factions.

Well, only a real small portion of Warmachine looks steampunk. None of the Horde faction has anything steampunk, and among the Warmachine side, only a very very small portion of the infantry looks steampunk. Even for the Warjack, most of them just look like random big robot that are not especially steampunk to me.

 Vulcan wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of the warmahorde aesthetic, and I'm not buying all the accessories needed to play the bloody game either - unit cards, card sleeves, dry-erase markers, hoops, markers, yadda yadda YADDA yadda yadda.

I can understand not liking the aesthetics, but really the accessories needed, if you have everything you need for WFB, are :
- Card sleeves
- Markers
- Templates (WFB need those too, only different ones…)
- One set of faction tokens
There, you now have everything you need. Anything more is a unnecessary extra akin to the cards for WFB or 40k for psychic powers/warlord traits/whatever.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
That book synopsis is pretty weird, and pretty hard to believe (simply taking a photograph of the map would surely have been enough to prove his point, but obviously nobody has any kind of portable camera on them these days). That said, I can imagine them wanting to break the Empire apart and turn the map into more city states (easier to have a more diverse 'Human' faction that way, especially one that fights against itself). Where do the Elves go, though? Are they on other worlds? Is this basically going to turn into Thor 2, and if so, do Dark Elves get way cool shard space ships?

Lol sarcasm i'm hoping, 90% of people I know how a little something called a cellphone which most modern ones are capable of taking very crisp images. The fact that people supposedly get their hands on this stuff, and don't take images leaves me with the impression they are either brain dead or don't care to be taken seriously. No images, and i'm not gonna believe what someone says. As for the elves, that's anyones guess, besides we don't even know if this rumor is valid or not.

Not everyone who has access to these things has the ability to take a photo. Most print shops will have a no phone policy, for instance. Alternatively, they've been asked not to take any photos to avoid the leak being identified.


That said, it seems to tie in with the previous rumours and has GW's trademark lack of inventiveness with "Sigmarall". It's also overly complex and doesn't make any sense. So I don't see how we can differentiate it from the real deal.

There being a book call Age Of Sigmar fits their form. I really hope it comes out at the same time as the starter set, and it's not the July 4th release on it's own though.

If AoS really is a skirmish game with round bases, but the rules are at least halfway decent, I'm fully ready to rebase (a sufficient part of) my miniatures for it, then get a few WOTR trays so I can still use those minis in Kings of War (where only the footprint of a regiment matters, not the number of minis).

 agnosto wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Not quite sure how the new game is going to stop people playing with the old rules if they choose to.

Whenever this comes up, it's usually a UK gamer stating it. I think there's a cultural difference here in that gaming clubs aren't the norm in the US as they appear to be in the UK so if you're going to play a game, it's more than likely a pick-up or scheduled game at a FLGS which would rather you buy the new rules edition to use their space than an older edition that will encourage you to never buy new material or models since they won't exist in that old edition.

If all you're ever going to do is play at home or with a set circle of friends in a club setting, playing old rules is fine but that's not the norm over here.

But after that pickup game don't you often make friends with the person you are playing against? What's the harm in then asking them after a few games if every once in a while you play an old game that you like, and offer to return the favour by playing something they like?