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 adamsouza wrote:
GW actually discourages sales of any sort on their products from retailers. They view it as competition with their web store.

Again, complete madness. It's part of the salesman's trade to have a discount, or an offer, up his sleeve. Retailers are the same.

A few years back, I went on a spending spree at a FLGS, bought tons of stuff. I made the mistake of not buying dice or paint brushes, but because of the large amount of money I was handing over, I got free dice and paint brushes from the store owner.

GW used to give stuff away years ago when a new stores opened. People would come from miles around to take advantage of the buy 2, get a 3rd free, offers.

Now They're saying that if I spent £300, they wouldn't throw in a free bag of dice, or something. I bet some retailers would do that.

I remember when GW Exeter opened.

I didn't drive, so I caught a bus that took over three hours to do a route which can be driven by car in a little over an hour, and I spent £75 on an Epic Tyranids army. Not, in the grand scheme of things a great deal of cash, but this was approx 20 years ago, and I was a student earning about £15 a week from my weekend job (and no other income.) Then I hung around all day because the bus I caught only had one return service.

Last week, I had to drive to Exeter for a hospital appointment. I drove within yards of where the GW is now (it has moved to a less prominent position since their original location has been redeveloped as one of the main shopping areas in the city.) I also met a friend for coffee within easy walking distance of the shop after my appointment.

I could do with an extra Chaos Rhino for my current project, and with that being the only item I'm currently in the market for, online discounters don't make a lot of sense, as postage normally erases all the discount plus interest, and despite hardly being wealthy right now, I can afford full price Rhinos.

Still. I couldn't be arsed to go into the shop to pick one up.

It's this sort of apathy, alongside the baffling decison to refuse to act like a retailer, the GW really need to tackle (alongside a laundry list of other things not really relevant to the thread.)

They can reinvent, rerelease and update all of the things, but until more customers are getting excited for them, and are looking to engage with their stores as destinations, their bigger problems will persist.

I want AoS to be good, and a success, but even if it is, it'll still be lipstick on a pig.

Just sit back and wait for the 40k kit bash to happen.

 Azreal13 wrote:


I want AoS to be good, and a success, but even if it is, it'll still be lipstick on a pig.

Yes, they really ARE good at dispelling their own magic, aren't they?
Almost everybody has fond memories of GW, and most of them turned into disillusioned grumblings.

Can't be ONLY us, surely?

odinsgrandson wrote:Honestly, the systems that pick up steam tend to be ones that offer something new to players. New games survive based on the three main elements (fluff, mechanics and miniatures) and all three need to be both excellent and original. Players need to have a reason to play a new game instead of an older one (that they probably already have minis for).

Only from a certain point of view. You've touched on two things that I've ranted about recently, involving the 'package' type game with all three of those elements in one, that's encouraged by GW and clung to by GW - and some ex-GW - gamers. The first is that I think these games gather steam not (just) because they have that package, but because the package is somewhat familiar and comforting to the considerable numbers of gamers leaving GW. Big flashy models with their own particular big flashy stories and big flashy rules, all in one stop. The problem is that, while the gameplay might be improved on GW's (how could it not?), most of these games still rely on those special rules to sell minis, and it leads to another similarity to GW games: power creep, listbuilding, and imbalance.

The other thing is that when the package is encouraged and clung to for long enough, or without reference to any other way, the attitude becomes like yours: not just gravitated towards because GW gamers are used to it, but viewed as how games must be. This model must have it's own special, unique, defining (imbalancing, bogging down...) rules and considerable backstory taking up pages of the rulebook. What's the point, otherwise? But this is a nonsense. Some gamers view fluff, rules and minis as indivisible, but that's only a state of mind encouraged by GW, among others. It's not true, and only limits your choices.
Historical gamers alone are a sizeable chunk of the wargaming demographic that prove that. You've got a couple of package games in there like FoW or Saga; but for the most part historical gamers are free to decide on the period (the fluff, so to speak) that draws them the most, then decide on which company's minis to use, then choose the rules to play the period. And they know it. Fantasy and sci-fi gamers can do the same, if they're not so conditioned to view the GW situation as the norm. You talk about veteran gamers: these should be the ones exploring different rules, minis and settings for themselves, even coming up with their own background and settings, at least; rather than only hanging onto apron strings, and certainly not just waiting for just the right gift-wrapped package to be dumped in their lap, and not bothering to shift themselves if it never comes. I know people who game LotR without reference to GW's minis or rules. Heck, I know a bunch who game Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, and that doesn't even have an official wargame to ignore! (Dark Sword have a line of official ASoIaF minis, but they're more collectors' and painters' display items than gaming minis)

In fact, among the recent package-type fantasy and sci-fi games, I have to point out KoW as bucking the trend. It's not my first choice for a fantasy battle game (somewhere about second, tho) but I just have to admire the way it was built up from the start as alternative rules and minis, with choice at the core, and the way it's fans carry on that ethos. Earlier I agreed with whoever-it-was (sorry guy) who called out the tired old complaints of a game that doesn't have the best minis, when it's highly compatible with Warhammer and other minis. KoW players get the idea of division of minis and rules, much more than GW players, and dare I say players of PP, Malifaux, Infinity and such.

As for unique mechanics, I stand by what I said: there's nothing new under the sun. I've heard a lot of Malifaux's exciting and unique playing card mechanic, but from long experience with it I can say that it's just another randomisation method, offering little more than 2D6 with a handful of rerolls. You'll find Warmachine's focus and combos in slightly different forms and under different names in other games. You can give orders and roll D20s in other games besides Infinity, too.

You might look down on GW, and praise the half-dozen GWesque games as being better and balanced and broader; but it's like stopping your visits to MacDonalds and claiming you now have more open, adventurous, even eclectic dining choices, when the only other places you go to are Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut...

Kirasu wrote:They offer new players the ability to pay the most money for a game out of all the competition tho.

Vulcan wrote:If I want to play OGAM I'll go play OGAM.

If Boss Salvage is right, you might yet do that, in a GW store.

odinsgrandson wrote:
And that's what I was saying. Especially with veteran gamers, if you want to get them into a new game, you need to offer them something new.

And that's what I was saying. You won't find too much that's 'new', even if being insulated in a GW store means you haven't heard of it. How about something 'good' or 'balanced' instead?

GW definitely did offer something new back in the day, and over time, the main feature that GW offers is the ability to go into any game store and pick up a game.

*Aherherm* How about offering the main feature of being 'good' or 'balanced' instead? And on the gamer's end, maybe take the unprecedented step of introducing yourself to the pickups, and 'pickup' a phone or tap an email or two to organise non-GW-sanctioned games of anything (even 40K or WFB); rather than being concerned about and shackled to the idea of getting a game of a subpar rule set anywhere outside your reasonable travel radius?
People here make several good arguments about how the GW shop is outmoded in several ways, compared to a decade or two ago. I'd like to add it's role as a place to meet and organise with gamers who want to play something non-current, non-GW, or non-bad, in the frickin' internet age.

Thargrim wrote:
We'd be lucky to even get that from ForgeWorld, they are really pre-occupied with the Horus Heresy stuff. No time or space for work on anything else, which is a shame.

Psst.

I think it was a joke.

angelofvengeance wrote:Ugh. Can we lock this thread yet? Just seems to be wandering off topic massively.

But that's when it gets most interesting. What else is there to say besides "Urgh I know nothing about this game but I sell all my minis and my books and my dog and my house because I hate Warhammer so much now" or "I know nothing about this game and for all I know each new mini has a coin slot in the back that has to be fed constantly to stop it exploding and throwing schrapnel in my face and that has to be emptied into the nearest GW till but I love it forever and will never ever play another game or version of Warhammer until the next one comes along two years later!"

 Azreal13 wrote:
I remember when GW Exeter opened.

I didn't drive, so I caught a bus that took over three hours to do a route which can be driven by car in a little over an hour, and I spent £75 on an Epic Tyranids army. Not, in the grand scheme of things a great deal of cash, but this was approx 20 years ago, and I was a student earning about £15 a week from my weekend job (and no other income.) Then I hung around all day because the bus I caught only had one return service.

Last week, I had to drive to Exeter for a hospital appointment. I drove within yards of where the GW is now (it has moved to a less prominent position since their original location has been redeveloped as one of the main shopping areas in the city.) I also met a friend for coffee within easy walking distance of the shop after my appointment.

I could do with an extra Chaos Rhino for my current project, and with that being the only item I'm currently in the market for, online discounters don't make a lot of sense, as postage normally erases all the discount plus interest, and despite hardly being wealthy right now, I can afford full price Rhinos.

Still. I couldn't be arsed to go into the shop to pick one up.

It's this sort of apathy, alongside the baffling decison to refuse to act like a retailer, the GW really need to tackle (alongside a laundry list of other things not really relevant to the thread.)

They can reinvent, rerelease and update all of the things, but until more customers are getting excited for them, and are looking to engage with their stores as destinations, their bigger problems will persist.

I want AoS to be good, and a success, but even if it is, it'll still be lipstick on a pig.

I can relate to this. I remember the days of packed buses descending on mass to games day, or even people getting excited about 6th edition, or making the pilgrimage to GW HQ in Nottingham, just to have your photo taken next to that giant space marine statue. I'm getting all misty-eyed

I won't be buying it, and I wish them all the best with AOS, but I still cannot believe a company could take so much good will, so much loyalty from its customers, and throw it away.

I remember a mate, who worked in a GW store, working away until 4am, so they could get a display ready for games day, back in the day when stores used to do this...

I miss those days, that commitment

 Azreal13 wrote:
I remember when GW Exeter opened.

I didn't drive, so I caught a bus that took over three hours to do a route which can be driven by car in a little over an hour, and I spent £75 on an Epic Tyranids army. Not, in the grand scheme of things a great deal of cash, but this was approx 20 years ago, and I was a student earning about £15 a week from my weekend job (and no other income.) Then I hung around all day because the bus I caught only had one return service.

Last week, I had to drive to Exeter for a hospital appointment. I drove within yards of where the GW is now (it has moved to a less prominent position since their original location has been redeveloped as one of the main shopping areas in the city.) I also met a friend for coffee within easy walking distance of the shop after my appointment.

I could do with an extra Chaos Rhino for my current project, and with that being the only item I'm currently in the market for, online discounters don't make a lot of sense, as postage normally erases all the discount plus interest, and despite hardly being wealthy right now, I can afford full price Rhinos.

Still. I couldn't be arsed to go into the shop to pick one up.

It's this sort of apathy, alongside the baffling decison to refuse to act like a retailer, the GW really need to tackle (alongside a laundry list of other things not really relevant to the thread.)

They can reinvent, rerelease and update all of the things, but until more customers are getting excited for them, and are looking to engage with their stores as destinations, their bigger problems will persist.

I want AoS to be good, and a success, but even if it is, it'll still be lipstick on a pig.

Ah, the infamous Devon buses, I feel your pain!

Agnosto wrote:

As someone who hasn't bothered to read the HH books, I can only assume that the other factions/races didn't exist in the galaxy during that period? For an ancient race, it's odd that the Eldar weren't doing anything at that time...no Ork or Dark Eldar raids? Tyranids hadn't entered the galaxy yet?

The Tyranids had not entered the galaxy yet, the Necrons were still in deep hibernation and the Tau were not technologically advanced enough to be even a blip on the radar. The Eldar and Dark Eldar were still reeling from the creation of Slannesh at that time, so not much of a factor, although this isn't really highlighted in the books I've read so far (I'm 4-5 behind now). Only the Orks were around in force, and a massive Waaagh was defeated at Ullanor by the Emperor and Horus shortly before the traitor was named Warmaster and the Emperor returned to Earth. Other alien species not represented in miniature form exist in the HH novels, but they tend to get wiped out pretty quick.

I was surprised to learn that the Emperor's Great Crusade was in part aided by the birth of Slannesh. According to... what's it called, the Lexicanum? website, the birth of Slannesh resulted in a psychic wavefront that emanated from the Eye of Terror and spread across the galaxy. This is what killed off most of the Eldar race. In the wake of that psychic wave, the Warp went calm, ending the warpstorms that had isolated the disparate planets of humanity. It was at this point that the Emperor started his Great Crusade, as reliable warp travel was possible for the first time in... I dunno, a really long time!

Sorry to get into 40K in this thread!

Back to Fantasy Battle, I for one have been buying up Island of Blood miniatures to use in Kings of War. Whatever new stuff GW is coming out with doesn't really interest me. I'm only interested in their current aesthic for Fantasy. Fantasy space marines? Oh, the irony! They have truly run out of ideas if that's true.

 Vermis wrote:

odinsgrandson wrote:Honestly, the systems that pick up steam tend to be ones that offer something new to players. New games survive based on the three main elements (fluff, mechanics and miniatures) and all three need to be both excellent and original. Players need to have a reason to play a new game instead of an older one (that they probably already have minis for).

Only from a certain point of view. You've touched on two things that I've ranted about recently, involving the 'package' type game with all three of those elements in one, that's encouraged by GW and clung to by GW - and some ex-GW - gamers. The first is that I think these games gather steam not (just) because they have that package, but because the package is somewhat familiar and comforting to the considerable numbers of gamers leaving GW. Big flashy models with their own particular big flashy stories and big flashy rules, all in one stop. The problem is that, while the gameplay might be improved on GW's (how could it not?), most of these games still rely on those special rules to sell minis, and it leads to another similarity to GW games: power creep, listbuilding, and imbalance.

The other thing is that when the package is encouraged and clung to for long enough, or without reference to any other way, the attitude becomes like yours: not just gravitated towards because GW gamers are used to it, but viewed as how games must be. This model must have it's own special, unique, defining (imbalancing, bogging down...) rules and considerable backstory taking up pages of the rulebook. What's the point, otherwise? But this is a nonsense. Some gamers view fluff, rules and minis as indivisible, but that's only a state of mind encouraged by GW, among others. It's not true, and only limits your choices.
Historical gamers alone are a sizeable chunk of the wargaming demographic that prove that. You've got a couple of package games in there like FoW or Saga; but for the most part historical gamers are free to decide on the period (the fluff, so to speak) that draws them the most, then decide on which company's minis to use, then choose the rules to play the period. And they know it. Fantasy and sci-fi gamers can do the same, if they're not so conditioned to view the GW situation as the norm. You talk about veteran gamers: these should be the ones exploring different rules, minis and settings for themselves, even coming up with their own background and settings, at least; rather than only hanging onto apron strings, and certainly not just waiting for just the right gift-wrapped package to be dumped in their lap, and not bothering to shift themselves if it never comes. I know people who game LotR without reference to GW's minis or rules. Heck, I know a bunch who game Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire, and that doesn't even have an official wargame to ignore! (Dark Sword have a line of official ASoIaF minis, but they're more collectors' and painters' display items than gaming minis)

In fact, among the recent package-type fantasy and sci-fi games, I have to point out KoW as bucking the trend. It's not my first choice for a fantasy battle game (somewhere about second, tho) but I just have to admire the way it was built up from the start as alternative rules and minis, with choice at the core, and the way it's fans carry on that ethos. Earlier I agreed with whoever-it-was (sorry guy) who called out the tired old complaints of a game that doesn't have the best minis, when it's highly compatible with Warhammer and other minis. KoW players get the idea of division of minis and rules, much more than GW players, and dare I say players of PP, Malifaux, Infinity and such.

As for unique mechanics, I stand by what I said: there's nothing new under the sun. I've heard a lot of Malifaux's exciting and unique playing card mechanic, but from long experience with it I can say that it's just another randomisation method, offering little more than 2D6 with a handful of rerolls. You'll find Warmachine's focus and combos in slightly different forms and under different names in other games. You can give orders and roll D20s in other games besides Infinity, too.

You might look down on GW, and praise the half-dozen GWesque games as being better and balanced and broader; but it's like stopping your visits to MacDonalds and claiming you now have more open, adventurous, even eclectic dining choices, when the only other places you go to are Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut...

I get what you're saying, and I agree to a certain extent, but comparing with historicals is a bit unfair. By definition, all companies involved in historical gaming are dealing with the same "fluff" and the same miniatures. You can pick up any miniature or any ruleset and know that it will work with anything else dealing with the same period. A Sherman is a Sherman is a Sherman. You can't say the same for Fantasy/sci-fi. Even if every Fantasy game had a variation on elves or dwarves (and most do) there will always be significant differences. Even Mantic are forced to make "not-warhammer" army lists, because their own races , while similar, aren't unit-for-unit analogues to GW miniatures. And that's what people want.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
...making the pilgrimage to GW HQ in Nottingham, just to have your photo taken next to that giant space marine statue. I'm getting all misty-eyed

I did that - all the way from the USA - back in 1998!

I was in the UK anyway, but diverted a significant distance to do this.

Had a blast and got to chat with Gav who was just hanging around!

But yeah, those times seem long since gone, dead, buried and just about forgotten...

I was down at Meeplemart (one of the largest game shops in Toronto) the other day and had an interesting conversation with the owner. He said that GW sent intructions to have all of the Fantasy product pulled off shelves and disposed of (indeed there was nothing fantasy related for sale in the store). He recored all the UPC codes of what stock he had and send them to GW for re-imbursment. He was literally handing out free army books to customers (not sure what he did to the kits though). He said that GW is planning to release Age of Sigmar later in the year (he quoted November). He also, exclaimed how difficult it is to drum up interest in this new game with no details.

I have no dog in this fight - just though people might like to hear this.

Popped into GW Southampton to peer at the blue signs today.

With tongue planted in cheek, I asked the blackshirt if he had any info.

"Yeah, we'll find out two days before when the White Dwarfs come in, but we might be told keep quiet about it even then."

So... you find out two days after the internet then.

He also inferred it was going to be a really really big release. Whether he meant lots of stuff or just that it was going to be - BIG - I'm afraid I failed to clarify.

 Flashman wrote:
Popped into GW Southampton to peer at the blue signs today.

With tongue planted in cheek, I asked the blackshirt if he had any info.

"Yeah, we'll find out two days before when the White Dwarfs come in, but we might be told keep quiet about it even then."

So... you find out two days after the internet then.

He also inferred it was going to be a really really big release. Whether he meant lots of stuff or just that it was going to be - BIG - I'm afraid I failed to clarify.

And another thing I've discussed with you in the past: your days of reading white dwarf for free in WHS, are over


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
...making the pilgrimage to GW HQ in Nottingham, just to have your photo taken next to that giant space marine statue. I'm getting all misty-eyed

I did that - all the way from the USA - back in 1998!

I was in the UK anyway, but diverted a significant distance to do this.

Had a blast and got to chat with Gav who was just hanging around!

But yeah, those times seem long since gone, dead, buried and just about forgotten...

And a damn shame it is as well. Hell, back then you could turn up, wander in there, and talk to Jervis or Rick, no problem.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

And another thing I've discussed with you in the past: your days of reading white dwarf for free in WHS, are over

Meh... nothing to read anyway

I'm watching this, but I feel completely jaded about it. Without a serious price restructure on their rules, I just can't see myself buying in. I've got too many cheaper options that are of good quality.

People who shelled out for End Times books must be a bit peeved by now, I'd say.

Still, I am watching this and I am more interested than I have been.

I used to have 4 fully painted entirely GW fantasy armies. I still have my GW Dwarves and Orcs, and a large painted Mantic Undead army that was originally supposed to be Vampire Counts, as well as an unassembled Chaos army. So you'd think I'd be more excited...

holden88 wrote:
I was down at Meeplemart (one of the largest game shops in Toronto) the other day and had an interesting conversation with the owner. He said that GW sent intructions to have all of the Fantasy product pulled off shelves and disposed of (indeed there was nothing fantasy related for sale in the store). He recored all the UPC codes of what stock he had and send them to GW for re-imbursment. He was literally handing out free army books to customers (not sure what he did to the kits though). He said that GW is planning to release Age of Sigmar later in the year (he quoted November). He also, exclaimed how difficult it is to drum up interest in this new game with no details.

I have no dog in this fight - just though people might like to hear this.

November? GW itself has released information that pre-orders for AoS are the 4th of July and release the 11th.... Possibly the additional, not-skirmish, ruleset that's been rumored?

 adamsouza wrote:
GW actually discourages sales of any sort on their products from retailers. They view it as competition with their web store.

That is why one needs to find a B&M retailer with a fixed 10%, 20% discount on NIB GW product.

 Da Boss wrote:
People who shelled out for End Times books must be a bit peeved by now, I'd say.

People who shell out for rulebooks that basically tell you that they're going to end the Warhammer World as you know it thereby making this all null and void need to think more carefully about their purchases.

So where are the rumours? I see like 1 post about rumours and 24 pages of people talking about things they think they heard while their friend was in the toilet with a guy talking about a rumour.....

This is alot less news and rumors then. Make things up and have pages of pointless complaining.

Sorry OgreChubbs, are you new to DakkaDakka?

 Da Boss wrote:
Sorry OgreChubbs, are you new to DakkaDakka?

I retired for a while when I got annoyed by people for insulting people with good paint jobs who where new and praised people who where here a long time who did piss poor job.

Even before I bought Nagash it was pretty clear that this was the End of Warhammer campaign. Wenn I bought it anyhow since I was with Warhammer for about 20ish years and wanted The End Collection to read and as a good buy.

Now that it is dead from a commercial point of view I wait for the new product and hope it is good and that I enjoy it. Will I rebase my old stuff for a new game? No I don't think so ... those armies will be for when I meet with old friends for beer and games a few times a year.

So were does that leave me? Fresh start, new army and hopefully no more 50ish blocks of infantry to paint up !

 Da Boss wrote:
People who shelled out for End Times books must be a bit peeved by now, I'd say.

Because GW Ended Warhammer Fantasy with a bang, not a whimper?

Mutter wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:


I want AoS to be good, and a success, but even if it is, it'll still be lipstick on a pig.

Yes, they really ARE good at dispelling their own magic, aren't they?
Almost everybody has fond memories of GW, and most of them turned into disillusioned grumblings.

Can't be ONLY us, surely?

My problem is it's the same dang people writing this new game.

A new game means nothing to me if it's by the same folks who brought us 7th ed 40k, the AM split across two books etc...

So why would I have any faith thje same folks will now magically produce a game that's streamlines, fun, open-ended yet also backwards compatible with the existing model line?

I'm just hoping for some pretty models.

They did make it explicit that said books would *not* be obsolete. If they hadn't, you might have a point.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
[quote=Da Boss 643158 7914565 3b369a9fa46391cd1ac548de73a946de.jpgPeople who shelled out for End Times books must be a bit peeved by now, I'd say.

Because GW Ended Warhammer Fantasy with a bang, not a whimper?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
GW actually discourages sales of any sort on their products from retailers. They view it as competition with their web store.

Again, complete madness. It's part of the salesman's trade to have a discount, or an offer, up his sleeve. Retailers are the same.

A few years back, I went on a spending spree at a FLGS, bought tons of stuff. I made the mistake of not buying dice or paint brushes, but because of the large amount of money I was handing over, I got free dice and paint brushes from the store owner.

GW used to give stuff away years ago when a new stores opened. People would come from miles around to take advantage of the buy 2, get a 3rd free, offers.

Now They're saying that if I spent £300, they wouldn't throw in a free bag of dice, or something. I bet some retailers would do that.

Hell if you spent that much when I was working in a LGS I think I'd have thrown in a box of something free.

migooo wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
GW actually discourages sales of any sort on their products from retailers. They view it as competition with their web store.

Again, complete madness. It's part of the salesman's trade to have a discount, or an offer, up his sleeve. Retailers are the same.

A few years back, I went on a spending spree at a FLGS, bought tons of stuff. I made the mistake of not buying dice or paint brushes, but because of the large amount of money I was handing over, I got free dice and paint brushes from the store owner.

GW used to give stuff away years ago when a new stores opened. People would come from miles around to take advantage of the buy 2, get a 3rd free, offers.

Now They're saying that if I spent £300, they wouldn't throw in a free bag of dice, or something. I bet some retailers would do that.

Hell if you spent that much when I was working in a LGS I think I'd have thrown in a box of something free.

If GW had a heart, they would do what FOW did when they gave anybody with a hardback copy of 2nd edition rules, a free softback copy of the 3rd edition rules.

If I were running GW, anybody with a full set of End times rulebooks would get a free softback AOS rulebook.

Wouldn't cost GW much.

Nobody at GW seems to get that sometimes goodwill is more valuable than money.

 Da Boss wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
People who shelled out for End Times books must be a bit peeved by now, I'd say.

Because GW Ended Warhammer Fantasy with a bang, not a whimper?

Because in terms of usability in the "current meta" those books look like being GW's shortest ever period of usability, and they were very expensive hard backed books rather than cheap softback booklets as the old campaign books used to be.

So? They have high production values compared to cheap softbacks, and they close out the story. If one were just getting rules, rather than a physical, tangible object, there are much cheaper ways to play.

The fact is, GW has been pushing "End Times", and GW really did end things.