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I hear Mordheim, Necromunda and Epic all had communities that tweaked the rules and kept the games going online.

Anyone likely to do that for Warhammer, depending on heresy rules.

As anyone who has played any GW game knows, part of the problem in saying 'just stick with th edition you like' is the range is up to dated ness of all the factions. Some are well out dated and lack some essential elements in every edition.

If 8th was complete in this sense, I would be totally up for continuing with it alone.

Dullspork wrote:

This IS a new game. This is Age of Sigmar - not Warhammer 9th.

When Mel Brooks brings out "Spaceballs: the search for more money", I'm pretty certain people will call it Spaceballs 2.

In the same way;

WarhammeR
Age of Sigmar

Is written in that logo leads us to believe it's obviously the next Warhammer game, therefore #9

monders wrote:A few folks have mentioned the WoW similarities, but iirc WoW started off as a GW Warhammer game but they went their separate ways and blizzard went on and released their own game with elves, dwarfs, orcs and humans. Did quite well, I think.

Yeah, but the aesthetic of the armour they put on those not-Warhammer elves, dwarfs and orcs diverged significantly from GW's look. (Armour at the least. I look at a purple WoW elf with ears that literally stick out a foot from their head and muscles like the Hulk, and think 'whaa...?') With the chunkified sigmarines it does seem like GW wants a piece of that pie they planted that's erm... coming home to roost... gathering no moss... uh...

Although, that could mean they... re... researched... the market!

Like the MEdge stuff, people see what they want to see. I don't see any space marine vibe, except the on the blood angel sanguinary guard face plates, which resemble ancient armour anyway? And SMs are basically Space Knights... In spaaaace!

I guess they're running around in the plate equivalent of skinny jeans, then.

Folks here made their minds up as soon as AoS was leaked, and nothing would change their minds about the models, rules or perceived value. Ahhhh, the Internet.

Yeah, like 'can't wait to see these new minis that're bound to be great! Ah, they're new and unique and nothing at all like SMs or PP or WoW!'

I'm not saying - we're not saying that they're bad. They just have a style that some people will like and that some aren't looking for. But if you think they have no influence from anywhere else or it's not somehow telling, it's like, c'mon.

Bottle wrote:@vermis why do you bother posting in this thread so much when you don't care for warhammer in the slightest and just want to piss on people's parade?

Because I'm nerdraging.

Who said I don't care? Certainly wouldn't be here if I didn't. I want to look at and evaluate the shinies from GW's significant new thing, like everyone else. I'm just doing it from one or two steps back.
(I just wish some of these non-sequiturs didn't keep getting in the way)

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I hear Mordheim, Necromunda and Epic all had communities that tweaked the rules and kept the games going online.

Anyone likely to do that for Warhammer, depending on heresy rules.

As anyone who has played any GW game knows, part of the problem in saying 'just stick with th edition you like' is the range is up to dated ness of all the factions. Some are well out dated and lack some essential elements in every edition.

If 8th was complete in this sense, I would be totally up for continuing with it alone.

Even better, there's a small but growing community dedicated to playing Warhammer 3rd Edition.. Google Oldhammer...

Hmm, so yeah that is a thing.

I like the idea of a more skirmishy, warbandish game.
I like the idea of updating the clunky old Chaos miniatures.

But I can't get over the fact that it's not really Warhammer at all, now that the fluff has been gutted, and the fact that those awful Sigmarines are so utterly distant to the existing aesthetic just reinforces that sense of loss.

Pass. I'll wait for better pics of the Chaos models and maybe grab a few off eBay at some point, and I suppose if I develop a burning, irresistible desire to build an Adeptus Custodes army in the next 6-18 months before FW do them better I might look again at those atrocious Paladins of Derp, but obviously I'm not the kind of gamer GW are interested in any more.

Back to Mordheim for me then.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 RatBot wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts

I agree.



What does that have to do with the fact that Mantic has an army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat and made it before GW made their army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat? Just because I did something gakkily doesn't mean that it's not my idea and not defensible under IP law.

GW also had a faction of space orks wielding claw-like close combat weapons and driving ramshackle buggies. Just sayin'

And indeed Mantic borrows heavily from GW. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with GW being inspired by Mantic's Basileans (if that's the case). The problem is GW going flying rodent gak over people "borrowing" from them when almost everything they do is "borrowed" from somewhere else.


Regardless, I am less on the "lol GW's stealing from Mantic!" bandwagon now it's been pointed out what I thought was a cat is actually some sort of reptile. Not completely off it, but I'm less critical of it now.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Hmm, so yeah that is a thing.

I like the idea of a more skirmishy, warbandish game.
I like the idea of updating the clunky old Chaos miniatures.

But I can't get over the fact that it's not really Warhammer at all, now that the fluff has been gutted, and the fact that those awful Sigmarines are so utterly distant to the existing aesthetic just reinforces that sense of loss.

Pass. I'll wait for better pics of the Chaos models and maybe grab a few off eBay at some point, and I suppose if I develop a burning, irresistible desire to build an Adeptus Custodes army in the next 6-18 months before FW do them better I might look again at those atrocious Paladins of Derp, but obviously I'm not the kind of gamer GW are interested in any more.

Back to Mordheim for me then.

Well for starters, we don't know what the rules are going to be like yet. So, enough mithering about what we don't know yet. Let's wait for next Saturday shall we?

I have to admit I am on the band wagon for 40k usage out of the Sigmar guys, though I do also feel they come away from the current WH aesthetic.

The new game looks like 40K.

Any way to get better pictures of the figures? The updated one is... a little lacking.

wow!!!
it looks like i might finally paint some Fantasy minis!!!

as someone who grew up with He-Man, i approve of the Battlecat riding leader (yes, i can see it is a little wingless dragon creature, but i like the Battlecat reference)...
Khorne has always been my favorite Chaos God, so i like what i'm seeing...

as a painter, and not a gamer, i am happy...
i can still read all of my old books, and enjoy them just as much as i did 30 years ago, so i don't feel like i've lost anything with the demise of The Old World...
just like i can still paint my old Wood Elf Beastmasters if i want to...

if these are all snap fit minis, like the DV Chosen or the IOB leaders, then i am impressed...
some people may not like the aesthetic, but i am happy to see that GW continues to push the envelope with the evolution of their starter kits...
they have come a long way since the first plastic Fantasy Regiments box...

cheers
jah

So with 42 figs in the box what are we thinking?

3xflying knights
3xfancy knights
5x hammer and shield knights
1xbattle cat and rider
1x std bearer

And
5x khorne knights
1x std bearer
1xkhorne lord
1xbig beast thing
1xbeast tamer
20x marauder

I suppose it could say 47 in which case it would be 10x hammer and shield knights seems like alot for a starter do we have a price yet as i can see this being £90-100

 Bottle wrote:
Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts

What, the really close up, not terribly well painted model looks worse than the much longer distance, slightly out of focus, leaked shot?

You shock me!

Welcome to warmachine: Age of sigmar......

I had high hopes for this but not now....

RatBot wrote:Angels are not so unique.

Angels in a faction where there's also a boss man on a battle cat...

Why Ratbot! Whatever do you call the form of weapon that battlecat-riding angels-faction gentleman is wielding?

Bottle wrote:Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts

Ah come on, Bottle. Seriously now. Who'd just been calling out 'attacks' on people?

Agent_Tremolo wrote:
GW also had a faction of space orks wielding claw-like close combat weapons and driving ramshackle buggies. Just sayin'

In a mini range that was supposed to be a cheaper alternative to GW, as well as for a game that was supposed to be a more streamlined, balanced alternative to 40K. Shocker.
I have to agree with Ratbot: I think the execution of some of the basileans was handled abysmally, but I have to give props to Mantic for at least trying a KoW faction that wasn't a carbon-copy Warhammer alternative. (In fact, I hadn't seen that particular lion rider. It's not too bad, y'know.)

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:I hear Mordheim, Necromunda and Epic all had communities that tweaked the rules and kept the games going online.

As anyone who has played any GW game knows, part of the problem in saying 'just stick with th edition you like' is the range is up to dated ness of all the factions. Some are well out dated and lack some essential elements in every edition.

Part of the problem, IMO, is that the Warhammer community has latched a bit too firmly on to that 'buy to stay current' thing of GW's. Somewhat related to the fact that, like you say, newer faction updates get most of the nice new toys. Which is not to say that the older, outdated ones should just lump it.
If big-battle WFB was to have an actual 'ultimate' edition, made and policed by fans, I think there'd have to be some wee kind of paradigm shift and the realisation that no, it's no longer a matter of turning up at GW with both hands outstretched, waiting for the new, powerful, edition-tailored minis to drop. Balance in fanhammer wouldn't depend on meta shifts as the new-release pendulum swings back and forth, but on the 'fan police' self-policing: adjusting the mechanics, units, and points costs fairly, rather than clamouring for power for their pet armies. (I know some here on Dakka and elsewhere think the fan base is just the latter, bickering and shouting for different things, and would tear Warhammer apart if it got it's greasy mitts on the game; but I'm not so certain. See below.) It might mean some outdated factions would still have to go without certain elements, for a time. It might even mean some factions would have to have certain elements taken away.

But as you noted, it hasn't stopped those SG communities. Epic in particular... some people had old Space Marine (the 6mm game Space Marine) and Epic 40K armies lying around (especially for NetEpic, the already-existing fan version of older editions), but when the axe was dropped on Epic: Armageddon there were, oh, four factions released. SMs, IG, Orks and some Eldar. And a sprue of CSM infantry, IIRC. The ebay market became very important. Players adapted minis from other ranges, even converted, scratchbuilt, and sculpted their own. Proxy minis of differing quality popped up in new webshops, and on Shapeways, and are still popping up. In fact I'm dumping most of my old Epic SMs to redo them with minis from a couple of different ranges. While this happened, the rules committee formed under Jervis kept chugging, appointing army champions to army lists, playtesting and debating unit types and points costs with the community, and generally behaving in a gentlemanly manner. It's really quite heartwarming to see. It doesn't have the sheer resources, publicity, and flow of gamers that GW's remaining games have, and all that I mentioned isn't for everyone (hey, just like AoS!) but I personally think the Epic scene, since it's death, hasn't been more alive.
(Heck, it even has segments who prefer different editions and iterations: NetEpic, NetEA, EpicUK etc. Happening to exist at the same time hasn't stopped their enjoyment of the basic game. Hasn't stopped oldhammerers, either!)

Or, or, there's a fantasy mass battle game that's growing in popularity, whose makers are scrambling to accommodate GW's waifs and strays with official army lists for their pre-9th armies. I'm not a KoW fanboy - I'd rank some other rules a bit higher - but it is a solid set and I think that current initiative by Mantic is a great opportunity for big-battle WFB fans who'll feel left out in the cold by 9th and at a loose end. (Note to fans who can't understand why other 'inferior' games are being mentioned in a GW topic: this is why.) You don't have to grab it with both hands, or at all, but it's definitely an option.

For people that lament the 'grimdark' setting you really do love your negativity. Day after day.

The models look great. I'll wait and see what comes next.

Being constantly negative is tiresome and despressing.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Dullspork wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.

If you had posted them saying they were the next release for Warmachine I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

If GW wanted to do something different why didn't they just do a new game. There was no need to kill Warhammer for this.

This IS a new game. This is Age of Sigmar - not Warhammer 9th.

While that is true, there is nothing saying that Age of Sigmar isn't the "beginner" version of what Warhammer 9th will be. Nor is it saying that there will even be a Warhammer 9th. This could very well be Warhammer's replacement.

We just don't have enough information yet.

Warhammer is their premier brand. They are not dropping it in favor of "Age of Sigmar." They aren't going to now change all of their store names from Warhammer stores to Age of Sigmar stores. They won't be changing Warhammer 40,000 to Age of Sigmar 40,000 (though looking at the miniatures, you might think that was a possibility). Age of Sigmar will, in some way, lead to Warhammer 9th. I don't know what way that will be but this is not replacing Warhammer.

RatBot wrote:Regardless, I am less on the "lol GW's stealing from Mantic!" bandwagon now it's been pointed out what I thought was a cat is actually some sort of reptile. Not completely off it, but I'm less critical of it now.

What else did you expect to find raptor claws on? A bird? (Oh... oh wait....)

The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly [MOD EDIT - Don't try and circumvent the expletive filter - Alpharius] the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...

 Tamereth wrote:
Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.

Half the models shown look like they were ripped right out of the current WoC model line.

Bradeh wrote:
For people that lament the 'grimdark' setting you really do love your negativity. Day after day.

The models look great. I'll wait and see what comes next.

Being constantly negative is tiresome and despressing.

"Nobody should have an opinion on these models if it's not good like mine."

See, Bottle, this is the kind of thing that's getting me.

Oh, and, hello Bradeh! Welcome along.

 Bottle wrote:
The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly shitastic the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...

Probably because 98% of the KoW players used to be WHFB players and check in on a game they used to love. It's doubtful that there are as many players who started in KoW and switched to WHFB. Going out on a limb on that one. Many of us have collected huge WH armies and want to know how valid they still are. Turns out another game company FOUNDED by ex-GW staff has a game that will let ALL those WHFB models retain use. Why wouldn't we want to help each other out with that knowledge? Of course, don't let any of those facts get on you. They'll tarnish your glowing white platemail.

Bottle wrote:The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly shitastic the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...

Vermis wrote:Note to fans who can't understand why other 'inferior' games are being mentioned in a GW topic: this is why.

I think the gold color theme sort of does the models injustice. A different paint scheme would probably have me liking them more.

Not that i really care about deeply about either the Sigmar or Chaos faction directly. I think with a different scheme some of the Sigmarites could look pretty cool. The most plentifful hammer warriors are a touch bland for me, but the guys in the lower left are neat. They seem a bit more embellished. Battle cat man isn't really my cup of tea, but its a pretty decent looking mini. I can't see the angel dudes well enough to form an opinion.

The khorne guys... look neatish, but the pic's really out of focus.

Still, most of the stuff looks well done / attention to detail from the stuff i can get a clear look at. If this is the detail we have to look forward to, i'm looking forward to seeing new elven stuff.


Also, this thread really has gotten a touch silly. I get that people are passionate. I get that people disagree. But there's a point where point and counter-point devolves into just throwing words at one another on the internet for the sake of it. And then there's just trying to punch one another in the dick with magnetic ink.

Dullspork wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Dullspork wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.

If you had posted them saying they were the next release for Warmachine I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

If GW wanted to do something different why didn't they just do a new game. There was no need to kill Warhammer for this.

This IS a new game. This is Age of Sigmar - not Warhammer 9th.

While that is true, there is nothing saying that Age of Sigmar isn't the "beginner" version of what Warhammer 9th will be. Nor is it saying that there will even be a Warhammer 9th. This could very well be Warhammer's replacement.

We just don't have enough information yet.

Warhammer is their premier brand. They are not dropping it in favor of "Age of Sigmar." They aren't going to now change all of their store names from Warhammer stores to Age of Sigmar stores. They won't be changing Warhammer 40,000 to Age of Sigmar 40,000 (though looking at the miniatures, you might think that was a possibility). Age of Sigmar will, in some way, lead to Warhammer 9th. I don't know what way that will be but this is not replacing Warhammer.

This is Warhammer. GW will probably just call it Warhammer: Age of Sigmar.

Vermis wrote:
In fact, I hadn't seen that particular lion rider. It's not too bad, y'know.

It is actually pretty decent, until you look at the guys head... Mantic isn't nearly as bad as some people claim it to be (with exception of the the elves and part of the basilean ranges), but they absolutely suck at doing faces.

I will point out that these fellows are rumored to be the new 'Sigmarite' faction, not the regular Empire of current Fantasy. It is more than likely that regular Empire has made it in and that these fellows are not a replacement, but a new, most likely allied, faction to the Empire, as the Space Marines are to the Imperial Guard.

Yeah, most of us that haven't totally lost our gak have got a handle on that.

Yea, I think any danger of me wandering into the Fantasy market has long gone.

I'll like to see more of the Chaos but the Sigmar models are woeful.

Adeptus Custodes anyone?

YUCK! I WAS going to start a fantasy army if this panned out well. My wallet is sooo happy!

May I point out how weirdly similar the Chaos force is to the Dark Vengeance Chaos force? We have: 20 marauders (cultists), 5 Chosen (uhhh... Chosen, though DV has 6), a big hulking demonic fellow (Helbrute, they even have similar poses) and a lord, plus a few extra guys... It's uncannily similar.