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Whatever, you keep throwing a temper tantrum that people think these look like Space Marines and guess what- they're still going to think that. Nothing I say is going to change their minds either. GW thought this would be the best course of action to save their game, I don't really feel that will be the case. You very clearly feel the opposite, so let's drop it. And maybe you should just try posting thoughts/evidence without trolling people?

Suddenly it all became clear

I agree with ImAGeek and Timetowaste on this:



Looks much better.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.

C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?

Yeah, I am completely serious in saying that I don't think wearing full plate makes someone a Space Marine. Might as well complain about these

http://s337.photobucket.com/user/Agamemnon2/media/New%20Cygnar%20painted%20album/SwordKnightsFront.jpg.html

 Runic wrote:


It's a completely new game for crying out loud. And yeah that, that was just to troll a few overzealous people for the giggles.

And I have no knowledge. However I have common sense.

So you use your common sense to troll others for a giggle... classy.

 Accolade wrote:
Whatever, you keep throwing a temper tantrum that people think these look like Space Marines and guess what- they're still going to think that. Nothing I say is going to change their minds either. GW thought this would be the best course of action to save their game, I don't really feel that will be the case. You very clearly feel the opposite, so let's drop it. And maybe you should just try posting thoughts/evidence without trolling people?

Go check the date on said trolling - it was over 7 months ago, and on a few folks that are 110% negative, and their main action on the forum is to spread and enforce said negativity. I am not trolling you but posting thoughts. As I mentioned before, I have no evidence of GW NOT basing the launch of an entire game and everything related on making a few units/a single faction resemble Space Marines. I already stated I merely think it's an unfhatomably unrealistic idea. You have an odd habit of telling someone what they are doing. I'm not throwing a temper tantrum, and I never denied that they resemble Space Marines. I was talking about another thing completely, a thing you said: Basing the whole games success on said detail.

 kendoka wrote:
Feeling really, really sad.

I honestly believe that GW did the right thing when deciding to reboot WHFB.
- It needed a lower entry (cash/time) to attract new players
- It needed simpler rules and faster gameplay.
... and I have been playing WHFB for many years using only round bases (and modified/recasted LOTR movement trays).

However, removing the amazing fluff base (ze Old World) and now totally destroying the visual appeal of the game (adding SigMarines and adding yet more unnatural Catachan-esque muscles to the Chaos guys) was, atleast for me, a wrong turn.

I was planning to buy the starter - but cannot find a single miniature that I like/need - and I collect (besides my Dark Elves) Empire and Chaos (having a Marauder army). Was therefore hoping for Witch Hunters, ordinary citizens amd more skinny Marauder types, something more similar to the warriors in the new Mad Max movie.

Also, IMHO, the coolest things in WHFB and 40K is having real people (Empire, Imperial Guard, etc.) fight against impossible odds, not fielding an faceless, über-army of identical, unkillable heroes in +1 armour against some chaos cult.

Not wanting any of the miniatures I will just have to wait until the rules (hopefully good) is released separately.

Yes reboot the game not the world ffs.

 Runic wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Whatever, you keep throwing a temper tantrum that people think these look like Space Marines and guess what- they're still going to think that. Nothing I say is going to change their minds either. GW thought this would be the best course of action to save their game, I don't really feel that will be the case. You very clearly feel the opposite, so let's drop it. And maybe you should just try posting thoughts/evidence without trolling people?

Go check the date on said trolling - it was over 7 months ago, and on a few folks that are 110% negative, and their main action on the forum is to spread and enforce said negativity. I am not trolling you but posting thoughts. As I mentioned before, I have no evidence of GW NOT basing the launch of an entire game and everything related on making a few units/a single faction resemble Space Marines. I already stated I merely think it's an unfhatomably unrealistic idea. You have an odd habit of telling someone what they are doing. I'm not throwing a temper tantrum, and I never denied that they resemble Space Marines. I was talking about another thing completely, a thing you said: Basing the whole games success on said detail.

It doesn't matter that it was seven months ago (although good you finally admitted it), it's about the type of poster you are that you would feel the need to troll people when posting isn't going the way you feel it should. Same thing with all of the above stuff- being needlessly hostile because a lot of people are saying "yay more Space Marines!"

All I posted was some of my thoughts on what I thought GW's plan was, same as I've ever posted my thoughts on what GW's financial issues are. I'm not always right, but then that's not the point of discussion boards. I didn't end my post with "time to burn GW's stores to the ground," I said "time will tell." I still feel that these new guys, combined with a smaller rule set, are GW's plan to save Fantasy. But I don't think they'll be able to hold to that, the fluff comments of "even MORE massive battles to come!" make me think GW hasn't really figured out what is wrong with Fantasy, and is just trying to pump in more lifeblood through this technique.

 Accolade wrote:
It doesn't matter that it was seven months ago (although good you finally admitted it), it's about the type of poster you are that you would feel the need to troll people when posting isn't going the way you feel it should. Same thing with all of the above stuff- being needlessly hostile because a lot of people are saying "yay more Space Marines!"

All I posted was some of my thoughts on what I thought GW's plan was, same as I've ever posted my thoughts on what GW's financial issues are. I'm not always right, but then that's not the point of discussion boards. I didn't end my post with "time to burn GW's stores to the ground," I said "time will tell." I still feel that these new guys, combined with a smaller rule set, are GW's plan to save Fantasy. But I don't think they'll be able to hold to that, the fluff comments of "even MORE massive battles to come!" make me think GW hasn't really figured out what is wrong with Fantasy, and is just trying to pump in more lifeblood through this technique.

Yeah, I have trolled some folks 7 months ago and in a way that hurt no ones feelings ( unless they were emotionally invested in GW's financial reports ) who themselves were being toxic, negative, offensive. Whatever will we do. Sorry but that moralization has no effect whatsoever, there's hundreds of people doing worse things on these boards on a daily basis. Next to that I haven't been hostile towards people who think the miniatures look like Space Marines, that one you made up. I said the idea you had is ridiculous, that is all. No need to make a big deal out of it, really.

What you wrote now makes a whole lot more sense, than "the only/best way to save the game is to make one factions dudes look like Space Marines" - perhaps you didn't mean it quite exactly like that, then. I do not mean to be offensive towards you either. Perhaps my writing is just blunt, no harm intended.

Breaking these guys down aesthetically, heres what I think



The boots look a bit off to me, cant quite place it but they look too big?
Legs/kneepads look ok to be fair
I dont like the chest armor but do like the waist parchments hanging off them
Shields are cool
Axs not as much - a bit meh
Shoulder pads look ok
The helmets are decent except for the halo thing but Im sure you could hack that off.

What do you guys think?

 Runic wrote:

migooo wrote:


That is a really hard view to take. So your basically saying suck it up?

Yes things change but it's not always a good thing. Sometimes it is people evolve and opinions change but honestly WHF is not the powerhouse it once was. GW need to realize it. 're release Morhiem and Necromunda.

Pretty much. One can also quit playing WHFB. Those are, in the end, your only two choices.

Third is to randomly vent on the internet while riding the doomgloom bandwagon, but that really does nothing for a person in the end. WHFB was a poor game in it's latest stage, and it already had a run of over 20 years.

Agree on the Mordheim and Necromunda, I would buy the gak out of those. Bloodbowl too.

As for the people who on a serious level think that GW has based the launch of a new entire game and it sales on designing miniatures to look like space marines - ridiculous. The designers would laugh at you so hard. Yeah, they got pauldrons. Other than that it's armoured men.

So let's take for example the Whisper Bar it was stopped and a Bubbly bar was released instead.

In the end people requested enough it was brought back so no dude there's no suck it up or quit you fight for something you like.

Maybe you can't see the similarity but I do it's like a blood angel captain got himself a cloning machine.

So if something has a 20 year run scrap it right? That's the kinda idiotic reasons that 4th ed d&d was the abomination it turned out to be.

So ill be fighting thanks if you choose not to that's really up to you.

They could have kept the game and stream line it. It's just like 2nd Ed 40k to 3rd but on steroids.

I think they're hammers, not axes. My only complaint is the helmets that resemble Blood Angels Death Masks, the only thing that in my opinion makes them resemble Space Marines, and not just warriors in full fantasy styled plate you see in every other game.

I think everything looks great, not seeing space marines in these at all.

 Ratius wrote:
Breaking these guys down aesthetically, heres what I think

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIc-_GiWoAEItkO.jpg

The boots look a bit off to me, cant quite place it but they look too big?
Legs/kneepads look ok to be fair
I dont like the chest armor but do like the waist parchments hanging off them
Shields are cool
Axs not as much - a bit meh
Shoulder pads look ok
The helmets are decent except for the halo thing but Im sure you could hack that off.

What do you guys think?

Dont forget the duck feet.

My bad!

The mixture of truescale helmets and 90s plastics-level heroic scale feet isn't doing them any favours, no.

Actually, if you chopped the hammers off and replaced them with huge, wide bladed swords, they'd look like the paladin Knights from Warcraft 2&3. And blizzard modeled off of GW. So...full circle, I guess?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Only a few more days to know if this will grow into a mass battle regiment game or if the loose formations and downsized units will be the way forward.

Style wise I think Im on the safe zone with my O&G because they always have been a bit crazy and goofy, same goes with OTT nurgle.. I don't think they can screw them that much ( if I cant use the glotkin I will convert it to a big nurgle demon). Must say that metal sigmarites look a lot better than their gold versions but still not my cup of tea.

Its important that the game is appealing because both game and miniatures go hand to hand together, assuming that the full 9th version rulebook is coming in later on, I do not support the idea of a small 3 page skirmish game as a starter. Its a pointless exercise if you do not collect those 2 armies.

I like chaos but not the new light faction and I do not want a 3 page rulebook, so this is heading to a pass since the only thing there that I could buy are the marauders ( and for those Im looking at RBG miniatures instead).

Point is if this is going to be skirmish sized game other companies supply individual characters with quite interesting designs so the monopoly of buying plastic boxes with plenty of minis from GW is totally gone if they go this route. There is really no need for it. Also metal miniatures are the best thing for skirmish IMO. I can see full metal armies done with other companies miniatures.

Lots of questions where this is heading but like a big percentage of rumour mongers these days, that sate the obvious, I can use my magic ball and say that 32mm bases will be one of GW best sellers!

Yes the lack of rulebook puts me at a dilemma too. This starter will have only as much appeal to the veteran as any given battalion box. (I.e only good if you want to start those armies). I do want the set as the models looks very nice imo (especially the chaos). But it means I would then have an Empire, Goblins, Dwarves, Khorne and Sigmarines armies... Not sure I need 5 armies haha

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Actually, if you chopped the hammers off and replaced them with huge, wide bladed swords, they'd look like the paladin Knights from Warcraft 2&3. And blizzard modeled off of GW. So...full circle, I guess?

Maybe GW has finally realized that this stuff is all derivative after the CHS court case, and therefore they don't really have to be worried about being sued themselves?

 Bottle wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Only a few more days to know if this will grow into a mass battle regiment game or if the loose formations and downsized units will be the way forward.

Style wise I think Im on the safe zone with my O&G because they always have been a bit crazy and goofy, same goes with OTT nurgle.. I don't think they can screw them that much ( if I cant use the glotkin I will convert it to a big nurgle demon). Must say that metal sigmarites look a lot better than their gold versions but still not my cup of tea.

Its important that the game is appealing because both game and miniatures go hand to hand together, assuming that the full 9th version rulebook is coming in later on, I do not support the idea of a small 3 page skirmish game as a starter. Its a pointless exercise if you do not collect those 2 armies.

I like chaos but not the new light faction and I do not want a 3 page rulebook, so this is heading to a pass since the only thing there that I could buy are the marauders ( and for those Im looking at RBG miniatures instead).

Point is if this is going to be skirmish sized game other companies supply individual characters with quite interesting designs so the monopoly of buying plastic boxes with plenty of minis from GW is totally gone if they go this route. There is really no need for it. Also metal miniatures are the best thing for skirmish IMO. I can see full metal armies done with other companies miniatures.

Lots of questions where this is heading but like a big percentage of rumour mongers these days, that sate the obvious, I can use my magic ball and say that 32mm bases will be one of GW best sellers!

Yes the lack of rulebook puts me at a dilemma too. This starter will have only as much appeal to the veteran as any given battalion box. (I.e only good if you want to start those armies). I do want the set as the models looks very nice imo (especially the chaos). But it means I would then have an Empire, Goblins, Dwarves, Khorne and Sigmarines armies... Not sure I need 5 armies haha

Well if this box represents something like 1/2 of what you will need for a full army then multiple armies are now a reality If its more like 1/10th then not so much.
The footprint of those loose formations is much larger than any rank&file regiments so I will take a wild guess and say that this represents a big chunk of your armies ( specially if they are elite armies).
Im on the fence here so I will wait to see how this unfolds, I can rebase all my armies, it sucks but its doable. I will not do that if this turns out to be just a skirmish version of the 9th and the actual full edition uses squared ones...

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Actually, if you chopped the hammers off and replaced them with huge, wide bladed swords, they'd look like the paladin Knights from Warcraft 2&3. And blizzard modeled off of GW. So...full circle, I guess?

If we're going there, then this would be a bit more accurate:

So, lurking a while.
Thought about all the aesthetics and some good suggestions have been made.
But how about this as a design-key?



The movie IMMORTALS.

Gods riding beams of light from heaven to earth...?

ALSO - - -
If AoS is the Intro game to the new world of Warhammer, than:

- Sigmar as the God, along with his Demi-God henchmen, are attempting to re-enter/re-create the Mortal Realm.
- So the setting is NOT the new world to be, but the PROLOGUE to what will come.
- For the fluff, these Forces of Light will resurrect/reconstitute all of the other races.
- If this is a reboot of the Warhammer world, than that makes sense to me.
- My HOPE is that this plays sort of like an Oldhammer REALM OF CHAOS game, with a champion and henchmen... Except the Prize is entering the Mortal Realms instead of Realms of Chaos...

The RULES and GAMEPLAY can be TWO levels. Skirmish and Mass. It is just that this first game is focused on Skirmish.
But ultimately if the existing armies are still ok (as we keep hearing), than MASS must be on the horizon in SOME form.

And really, why would GW from a financial standpoint, really want to discourage people from purchasing large units and armies...? As dwindling a customer base as that MIGHT be, it is still an audience to concern yourself with.

Runic's back, everyone! Yaaay!

Bottle wrote:I can understand if people don't like the Sigmarines, but the Chaos too? They retain the current aesthetic but with much more modern designs and very dynamic sculpts. What's not to like? :-)

Just that, I suppose.

Not to say that Warhammer was never weird or wacky, but as people have said, it was it was the gloomy mundanity of Warhammer that drew them in. A bunch of normal guys with halberds and a cannon trying to ward off the horde of weirdos with their dragon. A setting where the wackiness was largely tongue-in-cheek and the weird guys like chaos warriors were defined by their weirdness (and it was weird. I've had a look at one of the old Realms of Chaos books, and the thing that strikes you about, say, the illustrations around the mutation tables is that these are drawn like normal people with horrifying disfigurements, not... what I'm about to describe. Hang on.) as opposed to being made humdrum and generic because of it.

Because it's not so much 'weird' these days anyway, especially with this ninth leak, but over the top. That 'badass, wikkid' aesthetic that seems to have bled through so much pop culture in tabletop games like Warmachine and Malifaux, video games like WoW and Darksiders, so many comics since the late eighties... The look where the guys may have more muscles popping than the Hulk on steroids, when they're not a tiny head peering out of an enormous suit of armour that likely has pauldrons like bathtubs, with little awareness of how it actually fits, stays on, or is able to be lugged about... Where the women are often almost the opposite, where the only 'muscles' that matter are on the front, and the ideal, the challenge, seems to be how little armour you can put on 'em compared to the guys. Where swords are like surfboards and axe blades like coffee tables, and the only way it seems they can be made more 'badass' and 'effective' is the degree to which it looks like they were designed by MC Escher. Where the bad guys are only distinguishable from the good guys (if such exist) because they're not gold, or otherwise brightly coloured; they glower even more; and probably have more spikez and skullz jutting out of them someplace. Where you can tell the good quality of the art style from the number of pointy angles and downright weird proportions they crammed in. It's like Rob Liefeld finally ascended to become the fifth Chaos god of XXX-TREME and his followers have taken up his old cause of wonky anatomy, unworkable armour, and deeply goofy weaponry.

You can have all that. Just have it... over there.

And it's no great comfort to some, to see swathes of WFB slowly follow after that whole, general style, and seemingly finally pop into it with these sigmarines and khorne gym-bunnies, and leave the more... subdued, 'realistic' fantasy aesthetic a bit poorer. Maybe, like people have been saying, the design of the other factions will not be so extreme; but with all signs pointing to the sigmarines as the poster boys of this new game, trying to capture the success of space marines, I think this is what we can expect.

nudibranch wrote:This whole 'sky is falling' attitude is confusing to me when, unless your are playing the new fellows, nothing has changed to your models.

Something has changed to the rules and background, though...

zacharia wrote:
Likewise if you dont like the miniatures, which many dont, it doesnt matter if the rules are good or not either since the miniatures are the main driving force in a miniatures wargame, as if they werent we wouldnt be using them, which is my point.

Not really. That's largely an idea fostered by the likes of GW and others, who have intertwined minis and rules, with each having to sell the other. There are other rulesets out there that have no attached mini ranges by design, or have no 'official' minis available any longer, that are quite well written, well regarded, and popular. They don't have the sheer publicity of GW, and you're not going to get many games of them if your style is pickup games in a GW store, but they're there.

lord_blackfang wrote:I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines. Might as well say that anyone wearing full plate in any setting ever looks like a Space Marine.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the others, by the time I finish my song?

Accolade wrote:
It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that they could play equivalent factions in two different games. Seems strange hearing people say "now I can get into WHFB"- was all that was holding them back was having the same army to play again?

This may be a smart move on GW's part as far as creating a bit of a revival, but I don't see it as something that would fix what I feel is really hurting both WHFB and 40k- continuous up-scaling of the game, combined with a bloating rule set, which has been hurting the ability of new players to enter the games. Although perhaps the rule set will be a bit cleaned up...but still, the talk of even *more* massive battles really make me think their plan was just to move all the models to round bases, rather than control game size.

I feel your pain.

Runic wrote:
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? ) Basing the success of a product on one faction of another game?

The faction that apparently outsells everything else, by itself? Replicated in a game that was apparently on it's last legs?

You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.

The Space Marines that apparently lure players in and outsell everything else, yadda yadda yadda?

Preposterous.

The image of management and designers meeting and going "let's make them resemble space marines, that's the best way to sell an entire new game into which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more, not to mention the countless hours and employees working on it" ( which is what you just said on point ) is just unfathomably dumb.

By George, I think he's got it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.

C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?

Of course. They're a completely original idea, just like everything GW makes. They're not self-derivative at all. Nope.

 Vermis wrote:

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the others, by the time I finish my song?

Oh, I see it now. They're painted gold. That makes them the same sculpts as that one Blood Angel unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.

C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?

Of course. They're a completely original idea, just like everything GW makes. They're not self-derivative at all. Nope.

Cool strawman, brah.

You honestly think they don't look like SMs, and think Sword Knights (of all things. If you're going to pick a WMH unit in powered armour you've got the Stormblades right there. In the same faction.) do, then I don't know what to say.

Yes, Blackfang. Yes. Colour is all. That's exactly the point I was making.

Look at it all again, but through the wrapper of a Quality Street toffee penny if you like.

Giant pauldrons, unrealistic elephant like leg armour, the proportions - it's all incredibly space mariney, and I think on purpose! How obtuse can people get.

Different people have different opinions.

Call the 10 o'clock news! We've got a breaking story here!

People could complain about anything, I swear.

These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines. Fantasy is a completely over arching theme of creativity, and from what I see here in this release, I can say that the dark, grim, look of these models looks very unique.